MMORPG's place in Esports

From what i have watched from the previous Q&As, the reason for the development of this game is because the team who are working with the game are worried that the MMORPG genre that they loved so much is losing the interest of players. They told that from what they think as MMORPG players themselves, one of the reason of this decline of player interest is because of the promises of a game that was not fulfilled and many managerial decisions which are not very well accepted by the players. Yes this might be true but for me, a gamer who played many different types of Multiplayer games, i can see that there's this one aspect which MMORPGs are lacking and that is the competitive esports.

Players, especially veterans, wants to showcase the abilities of the characters they created, leveled and geared up to other people and at the same time earn profit out of it. the Competitive esports scene is the best place to do all of this. If ever ashes become successful, i hope the management will organize many events/tournaments for all interested players to compete. With the node system of the game, this tournaments can also have an impact to the game. A node can have its own representatives which will be benefited if its representatives wins the tournament
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Comments

  • kencha77kencha77 Member
    From what i have watched from the previous Q&As, the reason for the development of this game is because the team who are working with the game are worried that the MMORPG genre that they loved so much is losing the interest of players. They told that from what they think as MMORPG players themselves, one of the reason of this decline of player interest is because of the promises of a game that was not fulfilled and many managerial decisions which are not very well accepted by the players. Yes this might be true but for me, a gamer who played many different types of Multiplayer games, i can see that there's this one aspect which MMORPGs are lacking and that is the competitive esports.

    Players, especially veterans, wants to showcase the abilities of the characters they created, leveled and geared up to other people and at the same time earn profit out of it. the Competitive esports scene is the best place to do all of this. If ever ashes become successful, i hope the management will organize many events/tournaments for all interested players to compete. With the node system of the game, this tournaments can also have an impact to the game. A node can have its own representatives which will be benefited if its representatives wins the tournament
  • MathcoreMathcore Member, Alpha 1 Stress Test alpha-stress-tester
    edited June 2017
    As Ashes of Creation is a subscription base game, and they want to implement arenas, battleground and yes their 1v1 2v2 5v5 etc. systems and they also wanted to do a ranking system, I would see them, if doing sucessfull, a good chance. But not in e-sport in the modern way, like esl and things like this. more in a own way, maybe in a tournament the first 100 are qualified and the first will have a price pool that they can decide. I think that system would work and encourage a lot of players to do pvp and maybe also starting the game. Also you can make in Guild vs Guild a price pool for first or so. In Guild wars 1 (not 2 ) it was a great thing and was also a big price pool sometimes. what do you think?
  • nagashnagash Member alpha-stress-tester
    Mathcore said:
    As Ashes of Creation is a subscription base game, and they want to implement arenas, battleground and yes their 1v1 2v2 5v5 etc. systems and they also wanted to do a ranking system, I would see them, if doing sucessfull, a good chance. But not in e-sport in the modern way, like esl and things like this. more in a own way, maybe in a tournament the first 100 are qualified and the first will have a price pool that they can decide. I think that system would work and encourage a lot of players to do pvp and maybe also starting the game. Also you can make in Guild vs Guild a price pool for first or so. In Guild wars 1 (not 2 ) it was a great thing and was also a big price pool sometimes. what do you think?
    Ashes is a MMORPG not a gambling asset. Dedicated gamers are looking for a real honest to goodness old time with new ideas and a  game to sink their teeth in, not a sporting event.


    This why we are friends ^^

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  • MathcoreMathcore Member, Alpha 1 Stress Test alpha-stress-tester
    Diura said:
    Mathcore said:
    As Ashes of Creation is a subscription base game, and they want to implement arenas, battleground and yes their 1v1 2v2 5v5 etc. systems and they also wanted to do a ranking system, I would see them, if doing sucessfull, a good chance. But not in e-sport in the modern way, like esl and things like this. more in a own way, maybe in a tournament the first 100 are qualified and the first will have a price pool that they can decide. I think that system would work and encourage a lot of players to do pvp and maybe also starting the game. Also you can make in Guild vs Guild a price pool for first or so. In Guild wars 1 (not 2 ) it was a great thing and was also a big price pool sometimes. what do you think?
    Ashes is a MMORPG not a gambling asset. Dedicated gamers are looking for a real honest to goodness old time with new ideas and a  game to sink their teeth in, not a sporting event.


    Hit the nail on the head :) If you're looking for a future e-sport game you're at the wrong place. However pvp will be competitive and fun in ashes with arenas and open world pvp and because of meaningful play within ashes- the game will be competitive and enjoyable enough without the need of making it into a sport ^^

    I also dont say it need to be a sport, but rewards and a price pool for the first 1-3 or 1-10 rankings in tournaments or so is a cool thing.

    Dont think should be moderated and in arenas like big LoL events and so.

    nothing to do with gamble, why not rewarding high ranked pvp player, it is possible, and we are discussing it, has nothing to do with gamling as you wont loose any money. just when they would want a amount to participate it would be gambling like, and in earlier mmos it was legitim and worked, so i got it you like pve more, but i participate hardly in both and its nice when there is tournamets of the pros to watch etc.
  • KratzKratz Member alpha-stress-tester
    I must concur with my fellow neighbours, I have no, and ever had no intention of playing e-sports, and I really don't think that's what Intrepid are offering or intend to offer. It's a different beast and whilst I agree with you that the genre has been largely lacking over the last half a decade and more, competitive e-sports wouldn't be on my list of faults. :) 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                
  • iQVanqiQVanq Member
    edited June 2017
    Whocando said:
    Esports and MMOs dont mix.

    Ashes will have a player driven competitive areana system.

    But to isolate a particular element of the whole game and invest time, money and development specifically towards Esports and associated marketing never pays off and ends up being detrimental to the core game.

    GW2 is a prime example of dedicated Esports attempt in MMO's failing.

    The players who still value a genuine MMO are all still here, interested and waiting.

    The reason for player decline is a lack of a game that captures that nostalgic MMO experience lost over a decade ago.

    That's untrue.  Having been a professional gamer I started out my career in Guild Wars.  Guild Wars 2 E-Sports failed entirely because of the game mode that was chosen to host the actual E-Sport.  No one wants to watch 6v6 keyboard-faceroll.  They did want to watch 8v8 with complex team play with multiple objectives to manage.  That was the key difference between GW1 and GW2.  (some would argue that GW2 was just a shit game all together...but that's just me.)

    Generally speaking most games that launched that came into E-Sports got there because of the community.

    Just because a game doesn't support a ranking system for TEAMS in certain game modes doesn't mean you cant create that system on your own.

    All it takes is a few opened API's, a website, and a few sponsors.

    A prime example would be CowLeagues Athena cup in OverWatch.

    OH side note:  As a Software Developer these sites are incredibly easy to build.  The hard part usually is the algorithm behind the automated matchmaking.  Everything else is just C.R.U.D.

    AND:  Lets be honest if there was a group of 15 highly skilled teams fighting each other 6v6-8v8 with some type of objective oriented play (like GW1) people would watch.  People have always liked to watch extremely skilled players play the same games they play.  Its the whole idea behind TWITCH, lol.
  • SolemnfacemanSolemnfaceman Member ✭✭✭
    Wow arena is the biggest i've seen it get, personally.

  • iQVanqiQVanq Member
    edited June 2017
    Wow my comment got deleted?  GW1 had a huge following and actual paid gamers.  I was one of them back in 2005.

    GW2 failed because of bad design and terrible PvP arenas.  They removed the entire reason most people played competitively in the previous iteration (Hall of Heroes & GvG).   They removed the ability to spectate matches.  They removed ranking systems.  They removed dedicated healers.  They reduced build diversity by over 50%.  The game was basically half the game GW1 was and still is IMO.  The game was called Guild Wars....there was no "guild wars" in GW2.

    The community is what shines the light on a game with E-Sports potential.  Its super easy to build a website for hosting tournaments.  (COWLeague Athena Cup in OW = Weekly tourny with 500 dollar prize pool).  None of OW's Weekly and Monthly cups are sponsored or ran by Blizzard.  Its community driven.

    Give me a few open API's and I'll create a website for those who want to make a team and become competitive.
  • RadeausRadeaus Member ✭✭
    I can see it work with the Ashes design with nodes etcetera. But I don't think people want to try hard this game for a few hours, or even 40 minutes to begin all over again. In general, I don't think e-sports and MMORPG genre go well together. But of all MMORPG's, Ashes has the best design for it I think.
  • KratzKratz Member alpha-stress-tester
    One does not simply flick their pepsi banner!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                
  • RadeausRadeaus Member ✭✭
    lexmax said:
    Kratz said:
    lexmax said:
    It's pretty vague I know, but would anyone else enjoy watching this kind of stuff?
    Only if you engaged in combat wearing your sponsored sandals! :D
    Not tempted to cheer your troops onward with a flick of your Pepsi banner then?
    Offtopic: I like your signature! :smiley:
  • lexmaxlexmax Moderator mod
    My apologies, I forgot that banner waving was a bardy artform. :open_mouth:

  • KratzKratz Member alpha-stress-tester
    I of course would support you as best I could. The honour would be mine! ;)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                
  • CyrephCyreph Member, Alpha 1 Stress Test alpha-stress-tester
    Generally, I feel it's hard for MMOs to be marketed as an esport because PvP is not the only focus for the game. Even for a PvP-focused MMO, there are a lot of different aspects to consider. Design considerations would include open-world PvP etc, where only arena-based PvP is best suited for esports. It's like asking a decathlon competitor to compete against athletes whose sole focus is one event. 

    On an off note, I read the title of the thread as "MMORPGs' place in Exports" and was very confused for a moment. Doesn't helped that I just woke up a short while ago. 


  • WindwakerWindwaker Member ✭✭
    Dont really think esports have a place in MMOS
  • DygzDygz Member alpha-stress-tester
    Esports and MMORPGs shouldn't mix.
    Esports should be great for MMOFPSs.
  • SolemnfacemanSolemnfaceman Member ✭✭✭
    Dygz said:
    Esports and MMORPGs shouldn't mix.
    Esports should be great for MMOFPSs.
    Esports should be anything the community want to watch. 
    Esports should be anything the sponsors see a chance to make money out of and give players a hope to make a living out of.

  • RumbleforgeRumbleforge Member alpha-stress-tester
    lexmax said:
    Ashes is early stages so, but I think there is potential for esport appeal. Just not the same way as LOL, CSGO, which are more like sit & go poker games compared to a poker tournament.

    I'm thinking massive scale LOTR type warfare with sieges and open battles involving hundreds of players. I can see the camera zooming around the battlefield as siege engines are shattered and castle walls crumble. Healers and reinforcements rushing to join the battle are toppled with scorching dragon breath, trapping the hapless infantry behind a hail of flaming arrows.

    Battles could be timed and scored, so there doesn't have to be an outright victory. But if a castle ever were to fall, it would be an epic moment that would keep me watching to the end.

    It's pretty vague I know, but would anyone else enjoy watching this kind of stuff?
    I don't think esports and MMORPGs mix either,  but I do like your take that it could work if the entire concept of "esports" was fundamentally different for a game like Ashes.
    The example you provide there, to me, is almost like a MMORPG version of Risk - which is a concept I find intriguing. 

    However, in most any case I think of, it's the RPG of MMORPGs that is going to get severed off in the name of Esports.  In which case, why bother with it?  There are other genres of game more suitable.

    HOWEVER.... just to play devil's advocate with a different perspective here... I will site a different kind of example that might represent a paradigm shift for "MMORPG esports."

    I know someone out in California that has been running a very popular yearly tabletop D&D tournament, where all players play Drow Elves and the campaign is basically an adventure where only one player can win.  (There can be only one!)  It became so popular that he had to do a "minor league" and "major league" night.  (The winner of the minor league gets to play at the major league game.)   Obviously, these are not long drawn out campaigns....  they are one off adventures that take place over 1 or 2 nights. 

    I site this example, as it is a kind of "sporting event" of roleplaying games.  I would actually love to watch it over the internet, if he live streamed it.  And there are many online sources that do stream tabletop roleplaying events... so there is an audience for that.    Does that mean that a MMORPG could actually work as a "spectator event?"

    I really don't know.   I'm just thinking outloud here.  But I think for it to work.... for it to really be TRUE to the RPG of MMORPG....  it would have to be a more cerebral kind of event than mere 'running around and killing each other." 

    I mean, I love to watch PUBGs videos as much as the next guy.... but those aren't RPG games at their core....  a RPG has character development and narrative.

    Find a way to put that in a esport, and then you have my attention. 

    ;)

  • lexmaxlexmax Moderator mod
    Dygz said:
    Esports and MMORPGs shouldn't mix.
    Esports should be great for MMOFPSs.
    Esports should be anything the community want to watch. 
    Esports should be anything the sponsors see a chance to make money out of and give players a hope to make a living out of.
    Well said! There will be highly competitive people in Ashes arena. Why not give them a platform to compete for money/prizes? It will raise the visibility of the game and bring in more subscribers. I can't see anything wrong with that. 

  • KarthosKarthos Member alpha-stress-tester
    lexmax said:
    I don't think esports and MMORPGs mix either,  but I do like your take that it could work if the entire concept of "esports" was fundamentally different for a game like Ashes.
    Elves and dwarves don't mix either, and just look at us my Rumbly friend! :grin:


    Image courtesy of @Rumbleforge!

    This cheered me up, I have having a bad night until I saw this.

    Thank you!
  • DygzDygz Member alpha-stress-tester
    edited June 2017
    Dygz said:
    Esports and MMORPGs shouldn't mix.
    Esports should be great for MMOFPSs.
    Esports should be anything the community want to watch. 
    Esports should be anything the sponsors see a chance to make money out of and give players a hope to make a living out of.
    MMORPGs should not be made such that the Esports community finds it fun to watch.
    It's like asking for books or movies to be a sport.
  • kufirstkufirst Member
    Ashes of Creation ≠ Esports
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