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Am I the only one who really likes the idea of Apocalypse a lot?

iliyailiya Member
edited July 23 in General Discussion
I can see that a lot of people are only for MMO and don't really care about or are frustrated with Apocalypse though I understand since the MMO is not released yet.

However, I've been thinking about Apocalypse especially castle siege as a standoff lately and realized it's actually a pretty good unique idea. Has there been any game even remotely similar to this? A huge team-based and objective based fantasy battle game? The only thing I can think of is Battlefront 2 but that is an FPS and tbh kinda lame after I played it.

I'm really excited about the castle siege and I hope Intrepid puts actual focus into it as an MMO and come up with more modes for Apocalypse. Something like Battlefront II but conquest based in an RPG setting would be damn awesome. You can choose classes for the battle and then maybe become heroes or special classes or vehicles such as chariots, sieges tanks or maybe monsters like dragons.

Potential is limitless with this and there hasn't been anything like it that I know of. It shouldn't be too hard either since you got the infrastructure for it. Some might be mad at me right now saying this will eat off the MMO's player base but that is not true at all. A lot of people like me or especially my friends who don't have the patience or the time for MMO anymore and play games like Overwatch and Battlefield to get right into the action and kill other players will never play an MMO regardless of how it is. However, people like me playing APOC can make Ashes more popular to attract players and it can even financially support the MMO till it gets off.

Who knows might inspire me to try the MMO as well just like Warcraft 3 did with WoW though I could never really get into WoW.

TLDR I'm saying APOC especially castle siege can be great, don't just make it an ALPHA for the MMO. It has the potential to be far more than that.

Comments

  • ArzosahArzosah Member, Leader of Men
    So far the only APOC mode we've had access to is the Battle Royale, which is complete trash of a game mode. From what I've seen people are much more interested in the castle Siege and Horde mode modes of APOC.
    Personally I backed what looked like it was going to be an amazing MMO, I accepted using BR, Castle Siege, and horde mode as testing phases. I don't accept APOC as a standalone project.
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  • iliyailiya Member
    edited July 23
    Arzosah wrote: »
    So far the only APOC mode we've had access to is the Battle Royale, which is complete trash of a game mode. From what I've seen people are much more interested in the castle Siege and Horde mode modes of APOC.
    Personally I backed what looked like it was going to be an amazing MMO, I accepted using BR, Castle Siege, and horde mode as testing phases. I don't accept APOC as a standalone project.
    I agree on the BR, It was a bad BR and nor was it a really good test for the MMO.

    I'm just saying it is beneficial to the MMO if APOC succeeds as a stand-alone as APOC can fund and publicize the MMO. How did WOW got funded to success? It was on the back of the success of Warcraft 3. The same thing can happen to Ashes. Majority of studios with successful MMOs had other games in other genres backing them as Blizzard did. Chances of success are reduced heavily if the MMO is the only game you have.

    The MMO will have its own testing phases anyways so using APOC as just a testing phase seems like a massive waste of resources to me. You significantly reduce the chances of the MMO succeeding if APOC doesn't become standalone. Standalone APOC is not a drain on the MMO, its a massive improvement on it and I don't understand why people are not getting this.



  • ArzosahArzosah Member, Leader of Men
    I can't say I agree that APOC existing as a standalone product is any more beneficial compared to using it as a testing phase, there plan was already to gradually include more people in each phase as testing progressed. Assuming what Steven said is true and all assets in APOC will be used in the MMO, using it only using it as a testing phase wouldn't be all that much of a waste.
    Comparing APOC to Warcraft III is a false equivalency, Warcraft as a brand had a decade to grow a fan base before WoW came out, APOC was an afterthought that is widely disliked by the MMO playerbase.
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  • WololoWololo Member, Leader of Men
    Personally as someone who will spend alot of hours on the MMO, it will matter less to play APOC since there need to be a sence of long term acomplishment reward for me to enjoy it. You made a good point about ppl having less time to play a mmo still supporting the game by playing APOC. It can potentially be one of the best marketing ways to pull people in a free experience before they sub to the MMO
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  • leonerdoleonerdo Member, Settler
    I mean, Mordhau is fairly popular right now and it's basically just castle sieges without all the magic. So APOC certainly has the possibility of being fun and successful in it's own right.

    Heck, I could see a world where the MMO suffers massive delays, Intrepid decides to just focus all their energy on making APOC good as a stand-alone game. That way they can monetize it and fund the MMO further. (Of course, I hope they don't have to do that, but I could see it being a possibility.)

    But yeah, what we've seen so far isn't just a BR or a testing-phase. It's more like a testing-phase (AKA shitty alpha) for a simple BR. So it's no wonder that people dislike it. It's not even half of a game... yet. Castle sieges will be more polished, hopefully. And the combat system, which will continue to improve, can be used across all the gamemodes and (supposedly) the MMO.

    But yeah, I'm more and more convinced that we're going to have to wait a long time for anything really good to play from Intrepid (APOC or MMO). Expecting a good game to materialize in 2-3 years was a mistake.
  • ArzosahArzosah Member, Leader of Men
    leonerdo wrote: »
    Heck, I could see a world where the MMO suffers massive delays, Intrepid decides to just focus all their energy on making APOC good as a stand-alone game. That way they can monetize it and fund the MMO further. (Of course, I hope they don't have to do that, but I could see it being a possibility.)

    If it becomes clear that they are focusing on APOC too much the MMO community will throw a fit...not that they haven't already done that a couple times.
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  • leonerdoleonerdo Member, Settler
    Arzosah wrote: »
    If it becomes clear that they are focusing on APOC too much the MMO community will throw a fit...not that they haven't already done that a couple times.

    Hey, I'm hyped for the MMO just as much as anyone, but I don't expect it to just materialize out of the good intentions of Steven (and his wallet). I'm ready for a ton of delays and re-funding efforts. If that means APOC needs to take an even bigger role than it already is, then it would be better for the MMO community to try and embrace it, rather than throwing fits about broken promises.

    Don't get me wrong, every time Intrepid makes and then breaks a promise, I lose a little bit of faith. But everyone here should have realized that the general expectations of AoC were maybe a little overblown, and should have been ready for some disappointment. No one should be surprised when making an MMO from nothing ends up being as hard and grueling as it's supposed to be.

    ....

    ....Wow I don't know where that rant came from. I guess I've been mulling over that for a while. Sorry about that, but I think it's exactly what I wanted to express at some point, and this seems like an okay spot to say it. I'll go back to being hopeful in other threads now...
  • I did not play APOC but I can see why they used it as a stand alone testing phase. Rather than stay a stand alone game after MMO is finished, it should just be incorporated into it. Or maybe they already said it will be and I just missed it. It would be similar to how battle grounds are in WOW.
  • iliyailiya Member
    Arzosah wrote: »
    leonerdo wrote: »
    Heck, I could see a world where the MMO suffers massive delays, Intrepid decides to just focus all their energy on making APOC good as a stand-alone game. That way they can monetize it and fund the MMO further. (Of course, I hope they don't have to do that, but I could see it being a possibility.)

    If it becomes clear that they are focusing on APOC too much the MMO community will throw a fit...not that they haven't already done that a couple times.

    Doing that seems like a stupid idea business-wise. The MMO is a far more expensive and valuable project than APOC. Hence why they'd do anything in their power to ensure the MMO succeeds more than anything.

    APOC can actually be a great tank for the MMO too. Though the gameplay is different; assets, animations and most importantly back-end of servers are quite similar. Hence why also having a working APOC filled with actual players will help reduce server-side lag.

    APOC also will take barely anytime off from the MMO. Nearly all the assets such as the which take the most time are copied from the MMO. You just need a few gameplay designers to balance the copied abilities and that's it.
  • noaaninoaani Member
    Arzosah wrote: »
    I don't accept APOC as a standalone project.
    I totally agree with this, but with a bit (a lot) of tweaking, and some creative story telling to fit it in lore wise, I personally think it could make a fairly enjoyable arena option in the finished MMO.

  • APOC primarily exists to test the action combat of the MMORPG, and it will continue doing that with improvements. Despite being far from a complete product and a BR, it was reasonably fun. As you are probably aware, everything you see in APOC will transfer directly into the MMORPG - because they're the same (which is why it was called alpha 1 phase 1). In my experience, combat in APOC is way better than any MMORPG in the market as it uses projectile and hitscan (melee needed improvements, which is what they're working on atm). It prioritises skill with some FPS elements added. I am delighted with the way they tested the action combat and can't wait to see the hybrid (50% tab and 50% action). If I like it, I might go with it; if not, I will just go 75% action which supposedly will have a similar feel to APOC.
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  • consultantconsultant Member
    edited June 13
    Well Apoc was their first test maybe did not go as expected but think Ashes of Creation wanted real feedback and wanted to show players progress so far a taste of thing to come. APOC got released but it was nowhere the finish prouduct. Lots of Youtubers stipulate that over and over agains when reviewing games in Alpha mode. APOC is not a finished product by any stretch of the imagination. Plus they also have a gigantic world to build at the same time.

    So should not be to0 critical. Just responding to some of the posts not original question. One of the Devs said that APOC would still be around after release most likely a much better version of it.
  • branegamesbranegames Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited June 14
    I think the reason why APOC (specifically the BR) left a bad taste in my mouth was:

    a. At PAX the team already showcased a couple of arena maps. Those could've easily been used to test combat with a large proximity of players in a small area. Alongside that, they could've used the A0 map which at a later date would also be tested by players. I find BR's to be really hard to test (other than stress testing) due to the fact that you are in most cases unable to stand still, writing a bug report or recreating the bugs due to the zone and other players pushing you to playing instead of testing. The A0 map in conjunction with the arena maps could've solved this issue whilst still helping stress test so many players in one area.

    b. Monetizing a "test" makes it a finished product able to be judged imo, also just monetizing it in general and using it as an excuse to test made me feel kind of icky about the entire situation. It would've been much better for the team to just come out and say that they needed additional funding if that was the case, but it made it seem so cashgrabby.

    The overall idea of APOC is not too bad imo and seems reasonable to an extent, but I (as a consumer and not a developer) just found it quite odd that they didn't make use of assets the team already were in possession of instead of spending time a resources on developing the battle royale and then having to spend even more time on it when there ended up being server issues and the likes thereof.
  • zinniezinnie Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    kayra wrote: »
    APOC primarily exists to test the action combat of the MMORPG, and it will continue doing that with improvements. Despite being far from a complete product and a BR, it was reasonably fun. As you are probably aware, everything you see in APOC will transfer directly into the MMORPG - because they're the same (which is why it was called alpha 1 phase 1). In my experience, combat in APOC is way better than any MMORPG in the market as it uses projectile and hitscan (melee needed improvements, which is what they're working on atm). It prioritises skill with some FPS elements added. I am delighted with the way they tested the action combat and can't wait to see the hybrid (50% tab and 50% action). If I like it, I might go with it; if not, I will just go 75% action which supposedly will have a similar feel to APOC.

    While you are technically correct that initially Apoc was a test-bed for the MMO, it was re-launched and re-branded as a Standalone Product (Apocalypse) with its own in-game cash-shop.

    A standalone product comes with certain expectations, such as polish and a well-designed game-loop. If Intrepid can add an interesting Castle-Siege mode and a Horde-Mode to the already existing BR, they might have a decent product to sell.
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  • is APOC suppose to be like a battle royale mode?
  • ArzosahArzosah Member, Leader of Men
    The plan is to have three game modes in APOC. BR was the first game mode, they're also going to add castle sieges and horde mode.
    Castle sieges are large 250 v 250(maybe more) battles
    Horde mode is a PvE node defense scenario where we defend against waves of enemies.
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  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men
    is APOC suppose to be like a battle royale mode?

    Part one is a battle royale. part two is siege and part three is a horde mode
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    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • EvoWEvoW Member
    I just really like the potential for this mode/game to help test the mechanics and attract more attention. I mean, it is a tried and true format that uses the MMO's engine I believe.
  • PokoPoko Member
    APOC brings more people in. I hear lots of people say they're content with waiting for a good game but then complain about the wait. I guess that's only natural, but having different modes is good. APOC is going to bring people into the genre who would have otherwise never thought to touch it, by all the outdated and bad things surrounding it. No huge new MMORPG has been released that has drawn new blood into the genre. IS is taking APOC and making it a testing ground, gaining money from it and introducing new people to the genre.

    The game by itself will certainly draw in new people, but having a BR and other PVP game modes will draw even more people in. Lots of people will just contend with "If they're only here from or for the BR I don't want them here anyway." I find that quite silly, seeing as they just grow the community and make the game stronger. I think APOC has a lot of benefits, personally I just see it as an upside. We're going to have to wait longer for the MMORPG anyway, why not have a product that brings them more money, brings in new people who would have otherwise not touched MMORPG games and also serve as a testing grounds.

    Just my thoughts though <3
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  • malgusmalgus Member
    B) i would accept if it was a pvp map in the mmorpg however since it is own thing leaves a bad taste for me because of it being just a cash grab but thats just me
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  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men
    malgus wrote: »
    B) i would accept if it was a pvp map in the mmorpg however since it is own thing leaves a bad taste for me because of it being just a cash grab but thats just me

    I think that's what turned a lot of people off apoc. if it was a 100% testing mode like the devs said then you would have no need to pay for it but instead they plan to release it as a stand-alone game.
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    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • iliyailiya Member
    edited July 23
    Nagash wrote: »
    malgus wrote: »
    B) i would accept if it was a pvp map in the mmorpg however since it is own thing leaves a bad taste for me because of it being just a cash grab but thats just me

    I think that's what turned a lot of people off apoc. if it was a 100% testing mode like the devs said then you would have no need to pay for it but instead they plan to release it as a stand-alone game.

    The problem for me is not that it was stand-alone, The problem was it was a bad stand-alone. Like not really a good game by even BR standards.

    If they want to release APOC as a stand-alone it needs to be worthy of one. They can't just copy assets of the MMO, modify it a little and call it a new game. Lots of studios with decent MMOs also have other genres of games using the franchise of their MMO but you can tell they actually made something new.

    If APOC is standalone with its own cash-shop. It's fine but then it now has to be a decent well-balanced game similar to other games like it such as Mordhau and not be lacking original content. Oh, it's bad game cause it's just testing for MMO excuse can no longer apply to it.


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