Greetings, glorious adventurers! If you're joining in our Alpha One spot testing, please follow the steps here to see all the latest test info on our forums and Discord!

Proximity Chat: a terrible idea that is really worth considering

1235

Comments

  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Hoping for a bit more diversity in content as the NDA gets released as these conversations are almost annually cyclic and whist entertaining, go nowhere.

    Kind of lucky there is no proximity chat on these forums and I am certain mute would need to be on most of the time!

    Poll last year is here:
    https://strawpoll.com/4wgjqugaq/r

    I wonder if the sentiment has changed over time or just different active minority.

    For NW, proximity chat, I was surprised by it at first it as my first MMO that I had experienced with proximity chat from memory but although did not mind having it, I would not have been at a loss not having it.

    Perhaps if I played that one more seriously, then I would have gravitated to discord.. will see.. as looking forward to playing in a few months!
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited May 2021
    Schmuky wrote: »
    If you think Ashes will be as intense or competitive as OW or any battle royale... what are you talking about? It's a different genre.

    Have you ever even played an MMO with inherent PvP?

    There is far more competition in such MMO's than in battle royale games. This may well explain why the people asking for this are mostly fairly new to MMO's.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    akabear wrote: »
    Kind of lucky there is no proximity chat on these forums and I am certain mute would need to be on most of the time!
    Or unlucky you don't get to hear the sweet sound of my soothing voice.
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Khronus wrote: »
    Khronus wrote: »
    There is no such thing as "don't like it/ turn it off". If it's in the game, you play with it or you are handicapped.

    This can be true if there is an advantage but i'm not sure what the advantage is in this case. What the advantage of having voice chat unmuted? You going to miss some life changing jokes?

    I'm sorry you don't understand the advantage of being able to immediately speak to someone vs typing to them and judging their next move based on their characters movements/actions. I can't help you much here.
    I understand the advantage but in most cases where communication is an advantage, you would already be in a voice chat. The only instance proximity chat helps you is with talking to random people you find in the world where the convenience doesn't provide much of an advantage.
  • FerniFerni Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I feel like some people are taking this discussion too serious and it's hard to keep following the original discussion.

    Since most of the people are going to use Discord a PVC doesn't seems necesary. You have local, whisper and shout chat channels to talk with strangers you meet ingame. And if you want to voice chat not using Discord you have party, raid, guild and also taverns voice chat.

    I don't like PVC at all but I'm not against it if such system is usefull for a reasonable number of players and we have an option to turn it off.

    Also, report a bad behaviour on a PVC will be more difficult than report it in a text chat and maybe this will add unnecesary work on GMs.
  • ThexBlackxKnightThexBlackxKnight Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited May 2021
    Schmuky wrote: »
    What MMOs? Which ones had proximity voice? I can't find any on google!

    Will proximity be good in New World? I have no idea? But it will be a direct comparison on how it would work in Ashes.

    Ashes won't be like Rust, won't be like CoD, won't be like pubg. It will be similar to New World.

    If proximity fails massively in NW, will i still think that is should be in Ashes? Of course not. But that will be the actual example of proximity in an mmorpg. So let's see how it works. I will get NW to keep me busy until Ashes comes out (and instantly drop after i expect) so actually I won't discuss proximity in Ashes anymore until I test it in NW. I encourage anyone that will play NW to make a post here after we see how it is. It could suck, but I honestly expect it to be decent

    PVC was tried in DCUO and most of the player base at least on PC ended up turning it off.

  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    PVC was tried in DCUO and most of the player base at least on PC ended up turning it off.

    Sounds like an example of wasted time and resources to me.
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited May 2021
    please mute this thread, I can't help but think we are dealing with anti-social conservatives who act like a sub-section of the population having something for them will destroy their exp, when they never answer the question of why not just turn it off when you first make your character. Instead we get arguments like "I don't want to hear a whiny teenager" :neutral: or "PVC and discord will overlap in raid groups" well hey I have an idea, TURN IT OFF, AND CHAT ON YOUR DISCORD. Another argument " it hasn't worked in any other mmo" but yet when @Schmuky asked you to name one, you straight ignored his question and pivoted to something else, after he exposed your wow example of having to download software, which most players aren't going to some third party website to a game that's been established for 17 years now. And the other you have to pay. So I ask you what example of PVC in mmos are you using as they didn't work?

    Also I don't care if PVC is used by a minority and the rest of the population is using discord, The people who use discord will all turn it off, and the people who don't will use PVC. Should we never legalize weed because the majority of politicians don't want it legalized due to their donors, or should we listen to the more progressive side of the country and make the argument that it is better for society to have weed legalized even with the vocal minority screeching in our ear saying NO, TRADITIONAL VALUES, ARE CONSERVATIVE VALUE! That's what you guys sound like.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    @angelicshiya

    If you can't handle free and open discussion, then don't participate
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • ThexBlackxKnightThexBlackxKnight Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    please mute this thread, I can't help but think we are dealing with anti-social conservatives who act like a sub-section of the population having something for them will destroy their exp, when they never answer the question of why not just turn it off when you first make your character. Instead we get arguments like "I don't want to hear a whiny teenager" :neutral: or "PVC and discord will overlap in raid groups" well hey I have an idea, TURN IT OFF, AND CHAT ON YOUR DISCORD. Another argument " it hasn't worked in any other mmo" but yet when @Schmuky asked you to name one, you straight ignored his question and pivoted to something else, after he exposed your wow example of having to download software, which most players aren't going to some third party website to a game that's been established for 17 years now. And the other you have to pay. So I ask you what example of PVC in mmos are you using as they didn't work?

    Also I don't care if PVC is used by a minority and the rest of the population is using discord, The people who use discord will all turn it off, and the people who don't will use PVC. Should we never legalize weed because the majority of politicians don't want it legalized due to their donors, or should we listen to the more progressive side of the country and make the argument that it is better for society to have weed legalized even with the vocal minority screeching in our ear saying NO, TRADITIONAL VALUES, ARE CONSERVATIVE VALUE! That's what you guys sound like.

    DCUO tried PVC and it was turn off by most people that play the game. Built in game voice chat in fact is rarely use if at all in any mmorpg I have played. Also trying interject real life politics into a forum about a video game seems very unhinge , you don't know who you are talking to here or know anything about what their real world beliefs are.
  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I don't care if I have to inject real life political positions into an argument to describe how you people come off as @ThexBlackxKnight
  • ThexBlackxKnightThexBlackxKnight Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I don't care if I have to inject real life political positions into an argument to describe how you people come off as @ThexBlackxKnight

    Not very civil for one that wants to have a civil conversation. Just saying.
  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited May 2021
    There is nothing uncivil about creating linkages in a discussion that affects an entire community. if you feel this has been brashed in anyway, that is on you. @ThexBlackxKnight
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    please mute this thread, I can't help but think we are dealing with anti-social conservatives who act like a sub-section of the population having something for them will destroy their exp, when they never answer the question of why not just turn it off when you first make your character.
    As a generally left leaning person, all I can say is that this attitude is the biggest problem with that left.

    People have given reasons, you have ignored them and then claimed that those reasons do not exist.

    Stop doing that.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Noaani wrote: »
    As a generally left leaning person, all I can say is that this attitude is the biggest problem with that left.

    People have given reasons, you have ignored them and then claimed that those reasons do not exist.

    Stop doing that.

    It would be nice if people kept real-world politics out of video games too.
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    As a generally left leaning person, all I can say is that this attitude is the biggest problem with that left.

    People have given reasons, you have ignored them and then claimed that those reasons do not exist.

    Stop doing that.

    It would be nice if people kept real-world politics out of video games too.

    I totally agree, and my post above is as far down that route as I am willing to go here.
  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited May 2021
    @Noaani The Anti-pvc staunch oppositionners are vapid and illogical. lefties like you aren't doing us any favors.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Noaani The Anti-pvc staunch oppositionners are vapid and illogical. lefties like you aren't doing us any favors.
    Not at all.

    It is fairly well known that MMO players in a PvP setting are among the most toxic of the wider gaming community.

    As such, it is logical that the only people wanting an open voice channel to those around them - opposition included - are those that either do not understand this, or want to propagate that toxicity.

    This means that any arguments for proximity voice chat are either from the perspective of ignorance and will turn it off as soon as they realize the reality, or are the cause of endless issues for people that do not know how to turn it off.
  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited May 2021
    Yeah, not how this works buddy. You don't get to just fit an argumentative basis for pvc as 1. the pro-pvc are secretly toxic and want to harass people themselves and 2. pro-pvc are all ignorant newbie mmo players who don't know the harshen reality of pvc.

    And no it is not well known that mmo players are the most toxic community. I would argue FPS (Warframe, CoD, halo,) and MOBA (league) are. I don't know what mmo community you have been in that's toxic, if anything I would argue the mmo community is extremely anti-social, i.e. this chat not wanting it in the game is a perfect example. Or just joining a group of people for a dungeon and no one saying a single word like Hi to each other.

    If your argument is that people don't know how to turn off a setting by hitting esp and going into setting menu, :neutral: then simply do it how wow does it, by clicking there toon, like you would to request a duel or invite to group.

    Let me ask you something, what would you do if someone was toxic just with speech bubble, would you scream and agonize that there is nothing you can possibly do to make them stop being toxic. or would you simply click their character, click "block" and then click "report for abuse". Same concept just with voice.
  • ThexBlackxKnightThexBlackxKnight Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Yeah, not how this works buddy. You don't get to just fit an argumentative basis for pvc as 1. the pro-pvc are secretly toxic and want to harass people themselves and 2. pro-pvc are all ignorant newbie mmo players who don't know the harshen reality of pvc.

    And no it is not well known that mmo players are the most toxic community. I would argue FPS (Warframe, CoD, halo,) and MOBA (league) are. I don't know what mmo community you have been in that's toxic, if anything I would argue the mmo community is extremely anti-social, i.e. this chat not wanting it in the game is a perfect example. Or just joining a group of people for a dungeon and no one saying a single word like Hi to each other.

    If your argument is that people don't know how to turn off a setting by hitting esp and going into setting menu, :neutral: then simply do it how wow does it, by clicking there toon, like you would to request a duel or invite to group.

    Let me ask you something, what would you do if someone was toxic just with speech bubble, would you scream and agonize that there is nothing you can possibly do to make them stop being toxic. or would you simply click their character, click "block" and then click "report for abuse". Same concept just with voice.

    You can have a hundred positive experiences with in game voice chat tell that one negative experience happens which will result in most mmorpg players turning the whole feature off. World of Warcraft has in game voice chat , no one uses it , same with ESO and other mmorpgs. What is illogical is wasting time on making a feature that most people wont use. People who like to voice rp do so on private voice channels free of harassment.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    You can have a hundred positive experiences with in game voice chat tell that one negative experience happens which will result in most mmorpg players turning the whole feature off. World of Warcraft has in game voice chat , no one uses it , same with ESO and other mmorpgs. What is illogical is wasting time on making a feature that most people wont use. People who like to voice rp do so on private voice channels free of harassment.

    BIG TRUE!

    These pro-PVC people don't seem to realize that people have zero patience for built-it group based VoIP. It stands to good reason that patience for built-it PVC would be less.
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited May 2021
    You can have a hundred positive experiences with in game voice chat tell that one negative experience happens which will result in most mmorpg players turning the whole feature off. World of Warcraft has in game voice chat , no one uses it , same with ESO and other mmorpgs. What is illogical is wasting time on making a feature that most people wont use. People who like to voice rp do so on private voice channels free of harassment.[/quote]

    EXACTLY!! Your finally getting it. TURN IT OFF!

    WoW as stated before does not have Voice Chat built in as a feature, it is a third party website that you must download, (yeah like the rp community is going to collectively do that for a 17 year old game). I have yet to hear a game that has PVC and the community hated it. DC Universe has it as stated before by the anti-pvc and I did some research and the main cause was due to a bug in the mic system that the game company never fixed, (even with that it was mixed reviews, positive/negative)

    I don't care what you think is illogical based on the features you love or hate, (game not just about you) that's subjective. And I don't care if even 5% used it and 95% didn't, the 5% will enjoy their time in the game RPing and the 95% can just turn it off and use discord.


  • ThexBlackxKnightThexBlackxKnight Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    You can have a hundred positive experiences with in game voice chat tell that one negative experience happens which will result in most mmorpg players turning the whole feature off. World of Warcraft has in game voice chat , no one uses it , same with ESO and other mmorpgs. What is illogical is wasting time on making a feature that most people wont use. People who like to voice rp do so on private voice channels free of harassment.

    EXACTLY!! Your finally getting it. TURN IT OFF!

    WoW as stated before does not have Voice Chat built in as a feature, it is a third party website that you must download, (yeah like the rp community is going to collectively do that for a 17 year old game). I have yet to hear a game that has PVC and the community hated it. DC Universe has it as stated before by the anti-pvc and I did some research and the main cause was due to a bug in the mic system that the game company never fixed, (even with that it was mixed reviews, positive/negative)

    I don't care what you think is illogical based on the features you love or hate, (game not just about you) that's subjective. And I don't care if even 5% used it and 95% didn't, the 5% will enjoy their time in the game RPing and the 95% can just turn it off and use discord.


    [/quote]

    I actually played DCUO and the reason most players turn off voice chat was because of trolling. In game voice chat always ends up a dead feature in every mmorpg I have played. Time and resources could be better spent on other features that will be more used in the game.
  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    @ThexBlackxKnight Yeah I'm going to be honest with you, The argument "Time and resources could be better spent on other features" is not your call to make. sit back and relax. we will see how it turns out.
  • ThexBlackxKnightThexBlackxKnight Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited May 2021
    @ThexBlackxKnight Yeah I'm going to be honest with you, The argument "Time and resources could be better spent on other features" is not your call to make. sit back and relax. we will see how it turns out.

    The devs can do whatever they want with their game , I not telling them not to include it. Just starting my opinion that it is a waste of time since other mmorpgs in the past ten years have included in game voice chat and ends up not being used by anyone.
  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    agree to disagree @ThexBlackxKnight
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Your only desire for PVC is so you can be social in your tavern. VOIP in taverns will allow you to perform these functions. I do not believe your desire for PVC everywhere is a good idea. We have been quite vocal on the reasons why PVC would be bad for Ashes. There will be no dedicated RP Server so I do not believe a dedicated PVC for Roleplayers would be on the cards either. The systems will be uniform. It is true we could turn the PVC off (If it is implemented which I hope it isn't implemented) but you will soon learn most people will have it turned off so you won't be able to use PVC in most circumstances anyway.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Yeah, not how this works buddy. You don't get to just fit an argumentative basis for pvc as 1. the pro-pvc are secretly toxic and want to harass people themselves and 2. pro-pvc are all ignorant newbie mmo players who don't know the harshen reality of pvc.

    I didn't.

    I said that 1. the pro-pvc are secretly toxic and want to harass people themselves OR 2. pro-pvc are all ignorant newbie mmo players who don't know the harshen reality of pvc.

    That one word makes all the difference.

    Also, I have not seen any evidence to the contrary, all pro proximity chat people have fit neatly in to one of those two groups.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Sounds like an example of wasted time and resources to me.
    At least with Discord, I can mute my mic when I don’t the other people in chat to hear what’s going on in the room or extraneous conversations from people near me.

    The PVC I experienced was bizarre and is horrible for immersion. One player character runs past you and suddenly you hear people talking to their friends through Discord about football or some movie or parents screaming in the distance to come eat dinner or bit of whatever music or TV show the person has on. And that player clearly has no clue they can be heard because they have the PVC turned off and are only paying attention to Discord voice chat.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited May 2021
    @ThexBlackxKnight Yeah I'm going to be honest with you, The argument "Time and resources could be better spent on other features" is not your call to make. sit back and relax. we will see how it turns out.
    The argument, “Time and money could be better spent elsewhere” is a valid opinion to share.
    Then we wait and see if the devs share that opinion.

    That 5% using PVC for RP might as well just do the same thing with Discord voice chat because it will amount to the same thing. Only a handful of people would hear you because most people in the tavern will have PVC turned off and will be listening to their own Discord channels.
    Which means your RP will likely be disrupted by their stray chatter because they aren’t paying attention to how it affects proximity voice chat.

    You could always ask Steven what his views are on this topic as a question for the Dev Livestream.
Sign In or Register to comment.