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Gradual transition zones PvE to PvP

I would like the map on Ashes of Creation to have
- high security areas, where corrupted players would not survive long, where PvE players can feel safe and play just as PvE players.
- full PvP areas, where the effect of corruption would not apply at all
- and a gradual transition between these zones

PvX players would have the possibility to choose to enter PvP zones when are prepared to die. Or enter just into intermediate zones where corruption penalty is significant enough.

PvP players could choose to live only in PvP areas, as pirates, always corrupt.
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Comments

  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Nope
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member
    Please no this is not WoW. Only places that should be safe are towns.
  • NiKrNiKr Member
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Please no this is not WoW. Only places that should be safe are towns.
    Yet even those are not safe :D
  • TalentsTalents Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited June 21
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member
    edited June 21
    NiKr wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Please no this is not WoW. Only places that should be safe are towns.
    Yet even those are not safe :D

    Actually i remember pking people in towns when i played rift lol. But that i don't think is needed really in this game, the siege is the main pvp for town. Having guards watching every corner of every town just seems like a lot of work id rather go into other points of the game. Also you need safe points from guild decs so you aren't griefed, which should be just town.

    Also this is what i mean with the PvE stuff the demands keep growing non stop. First this, then this then this, then more casual elements....Next thing you know you are playing a single player mmorpg wondering you you needed up back in this again.
  • NorkoreNorkore Member
    Talents wrote: »

    Thank you sir, very based. I agree, these are decent MMOs if someone wants to have a more PvE oriented experience. OP should definitely take a look.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Otr wrote: »
    I would like the map on Ashes of Creation to have
    - high security areas, where corrupted players would not survive long, where PvE players can feel safe and play just as PvE players.
    - full PvP areas, where the effect of corruption would not apply at all
    - and a gradual transition between these zones

    PvX players would have the possibility to choose to enter PvP zones when are prepared to die. Or enter just into intermediate zones where corruption penalty is significant enough.

    PvP players could choose to live only in PvP areas, as pirates, always corrupt.

    Going to assume this is a troll post.
  • VaknarVaknar Moderator, Member, Staff
    Certainly a hotly debated topic in the community..

    My hope is that when Alpha Two releases, players who aren't familiar with or perhaps not overly enthusiastic about true open-world PvPvE / PvX will see how it works and perhaps better understand what makes it fun. It certainly isn't for everyone. I think that some people will be surprised with how well it can work, though!

    Perhaps some of you can share interesting or fun open-world PvP stories for those who are hesitant about the feature? ^_^
    community_management.gif
  • NiKrNiKr Member
    Vaknar wrote: »
    Perhaps some of you can share interesting or fun open-world PvP stories for those who are hesitant about the feature? ^_^
    All my stories would probably scare off any pvp-hating person :D Most of them start with "well I was farming this small corner of the dungeon and then another party from the warring guild barged in, which led to us pvping for 3h straight".
  • AelAel Member
    edited June 21
    Vaknar wrote: »
    Perhaps some of you can share interesting or fun open-world PvP stories for those who are hesitant about the feature? ^_^

    When I was leveling my very first character in WoW, I encountered a HL hordie while leveling up in Darkshore.
    He stopped and greeted me very courteously.
    Since I didn't know how to use emotes back then, I jumped in front of him, and accidently gave him a wooden staff blow (missed obviously).

    Then he slaughtered me and left.

    Ahh the good old days <3
    #Learn_your_emotes

  • OkeydokeOkeydoke Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Create your own safe zone. Be social. Find the guild/node/alliance on your server that wants to enforce civilization. Take an active part in enforcing it. Or don't, but find the people who will and go live in that area.
  • ShileeShilee Member
    I am a firm believer that if the game doesn't come as a pure pvx, the game will take massive hits to player count, ratings, and general opinion on the dev team for not following through with promises and statements about not catering to certain groups of players
    ip85fpf98y0y.png
  • CROW3CROW3 Member
    Your transition period will last as long it takes between the arrow leaving my bow and it hitting your mount. >:)
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Your transition period will last as long it takes between the arrow leaving my bow and it hitting your mount. >:)

    Man you got my imagination running wild with this and it brought the image of a comically short dwarf with a crossbow mounted on like a wheeled cart. Then it hit me 'man it'd be funny to see siege weapons used outside of sieges' and now I don't know how to feel about this concept (but thought you'd appreciate the imagery at least.)
    Alkali Witch
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Vaknar wrote: »
    Perhaps some of you can share interesting or fun open-world PvP stories for those who are hesitant about the feature? ^_^

    Such stories dont really exist.

    You either enjoy open PvP and so dont need convincing, put up with open PvP and so care more about how good the rest of the game is, or play something else.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member
    So this guild dec'd my guild and pretty much griefed one of my guildies so eh couldn't get tot he guild quest we were running for boss loot for everyone. So knowing the guild and their members one of theam was a streamer so we knew where he was but needed to know his servers. So 4 of us swapped through very server until we found his ass, all showed up attacked him suddenly and camped him forcing him to leave the area. We streamed it so our guildy that got griefed so watch and se we avenged him as well. That person went afk to eat, swapped servers and we found him again, waited from him to come back tot he spot and pop his loot scroll and killed him as soon as he did. Then we had a perma dec after for years pretty much long story short lol.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Nope.


    (8 posts and it's hotly debated already??)
  • Talents wrote: »

    Hey now
    I enjoyed PvP island in GW2
  • Vaknar wrote: »
    Certainly a hotly debated topic in the community..

    My hope is that when Alpha Two releases, players who aren't familiar with or perhaps not overly enthusiastic about true open-world PvPvE / PvX will see how it works and perhaps better understand what makes it fun. It certainly isn't for everyone. I think that some people will be surprised with how well it can work, though!

    Perhaps some of you can share interesting or fun open-world PvP stories for those who are hesitant about the feature? ^_^

    Ahh yes
    I started playing wow during BC. I remember leveling my character, and finally making it to the portal to go to outlands... And a level 70 druid dropping in killing me in 2 spells, then turning into a bird and flying off...

    So there's that...
    😂
  • AidanKDAidanKD Member
    Dygz wrote: »
    Nope.


    (8 posts and it's hotly debated already??)

    I don't think he was referring to this specific post but I would agree that there are definitely people who follow Ashes in some numbers who would like to have some sort of PvE server, or more of a chain on the PvP aspect, so I can see why he said it that way.

    At the very least, he's said this is how things are going to be done which even if we know it, is good to hear!
  • OtrOtr Member
    Vaknar wrote: »
    My hope is that when Alpha Two releases, players who aren't familiar with or perhaps not overly enthusiastic about true open-world PvPvE / PvX will see how it works and perhaps better understand what makes it fun. It certainly isn't for everyone. I think that some people will be surprised with how well it can work, though!
    You cannot balance the corruption penalties so that everybody is happy.
    I want no corruption at all, at least on 50% of the map.
    Players should distribute themselves into the areas which makes them happy.
    Also I think in alpha 2 there will be more PvP players than PvX players and balance will be changed after release, probably to increase penalties. I do not trust the developers to stay with the balance which makes alpha 2 players happy, so I will join only 3-6 months after full release, to have enough time to see how developer's reaction to player feedback is.
    If players will cry that penalties are not high enough and developers listen, i'll not join at all.
  • OtrOtr Member
    This post shows how players can abuse the system and make it unfun for PvP-ers

    https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/343621#Comment_343621
    Dygz wrote: »
    Because the gear of the people killing you decides whether you should try to fight back or escape. By the time click them all one at a time to check their gear, you're dead.
    No. The gear people are wearing does not determine whether or not I should try to fight.
    First thing that determines whether I fight back is if I am in the mood for PvP combat.
    Second thing is whether or not I want my attacker to gain Corruption or whether I want half the normal death penalties.

    Trying to assess who has the weakest gear is pointless if I'm fighting a group.
    And, if I'm fighting a group - it's probably just quicker for me to let them kill me.
    So, it all boils down to will I penalize with Corruption or go with half normal death penalties.

    Gear assessment helps me decide the risk of initiating an attack.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    LMAO
    That is the intended design of the PvP flagging system; not abusing the system.
    There are many "fun" paths for PvP combat besides killing non-combatants.
  • arsnnarsnn Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha One
    In a way nodes are some kind of soft safe zone.
    Your affiliations with these kind of organisational structures will be a safety net in their proximity.

    Groups that pk in your hood will mostly be at a disadvantage due to friendly player proximity and the corruption system.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member
    Otr wrote: »
    This post shows how players can abuse the system and make it unfun for PvP-ers

    https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/343621#Comment_343621
    Dygz wrote: »
    Because the gear of the people killing you decides whether you should try to fight back or escape. By the time click them all one at a time to check their gear, you're dead.
    No. The gear people are wearing does not determine whether or not I should try to fight.
    First thing that determines whether I fight back is if I am in the mood for PvP combat.
    Second thing is whether or not I want my attacker to gain Corruption or whether I want half the normal death penalties.

    Trying to assess who has the weakest gear is pointless if I'm fighting a group.
    And, if I'm fighting a group - it's probably just quicker for me to let them kill me.
    So, it all boils down to will I penalize with Corruption or go with half normal death penalties.

    Gear assessment helps me decide the risk of initiating an attack.

    That isn't abusing the system that is just the system there will be plenty of ways to pvp in the game besides non consensual pvp in that form. Just be in a guild, and dec the other guild. If person is guildless nothing you can do really unless you have a group of people and can split corruption by attacking them.
  • FerrymanFerryman Member
    Talents wrote: »

    I would like to add Lost Ark to this list as well. Also some of these games can be considered good from PvP pov as well depending what kind of PvP likes of course. Yeah I guess Runescape can be considered as good option for PvE centric players but I think you can get more out of this game if you like the wilderness area and full loot PvP without restrictions.
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • KovrmKovrm Member
    Otr wrote: »
    Vaknar wrote: »
    My hope is that when Alpha Two releases, players who aren't familiar with or perhaps not overly enthusiastic about true open-world PvPvE / PvX will see how it works and perhaps better understand what makes it fun. It certainly isn't for everyone. I think that some people will be surprised with how well it can work, though!
    You cannot balance the corruption penalties so that everybody is happy.
    I want no corruption at all, at least on 50% of the map.
    Players should distribute themselves into the areas which makes them happy.
    Also I think in alpha 2 there will be more PvP players than PvX players and balance will be changed after release, probably to increase penalties. I do not trust the developers to stay with the balance which makes alpha 2 players happy, so I will join only 3-6 months after full release, to have enough time to see how developer's reaction to player feedback is.
    If players will cry that penalties are not high enough and developers listen, i'll not join at all.

    Sounds like this is not the game for you.

    - dead set on balance not being possible.
    - no corruption at all, or atleast half the map corruption free.
    - want the playerbase segregated based on preferred play style.
    - no trust in developers
    - will base decision to play (after 3-6 months) on whether people who align with your ideals cry about penalties not being high enough to promote your carebear gaming experience.


    yeah. don't let the door hit you in the dick on the way out.
  • FerrymanFerryman Member
    edited June 22
    Noaani wrote: »
    Vaknar wrote: »
    Perhaps some of you can share interesting or fun open-world PvP stories for those who are hesitant about the feature? ^_^

    Such stories dont really exist.

    You either enjoy open PvP and so dont need convincing, put up with open PvP and so care more about how good the rest of the game is, or play something else.

    I kind of agree because it is hard to impossible convince people who dislikes non-consensual PvP. It is extremely hard to force people like something that they hate.

    Of course there can be this certain audiance which hesitates how they feel about owPvP in Ashes. Perhaps they should follow how upcoming test phase(s) will play out and perhaps some have a possibility to test by themselves as well.

    It is hard to share stories which would not push people away but let's try to think something from green players pov...

    - In Albion Online we have baited ganker(s) by someone standing with ox (which is used for transporting goods) on the road when others are hiding and waiting that someone attacks the ox player. Then rest of the group comes out and kills the ganker(s). This could be potentially copied with mule, however, it might be harder to find gankers in Ashes.

    - Open world PvP can be fun especially in groups because then you share the pain if you get ganked. Again in Albion we created a group of blue (positive karma) characters and went ganking criminals and red flagged players on red zones because we did not get negative karma that way. Thus, in Ashes this would mean that a green non-combatant players can group up and go hunt and gank corrupted players without fear of corruption. Yeah this can be considered as a nice fantasy, which is true, but it also works.
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited June 22
    Some of those people who love PvP whine that Corruption is too harsh.
    Some of the people who hate non-consensual PvP will refuse to play.
    So, it’s true that Corruption cannot be balanced such that everybody is happy.

    Even among those who continue to play Ashes for years, there will be players at both ends of the spectrum who barely tolerate Corruption and are not happy with it. It just won’t be a deal breaker.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member
    Dygz wrote: »
    Some of those people who love PvP whine that Corruption is too harsh.
    Some of the people who hate non-consensual PvP will refuse to play.
    So, it’s true that Corruption cannot be balanced such that everybody is happy.

    Even among those who continue to play Ashes for years, there will be players at both ends of the spectrum who barely tolerate Corruption and are not happy with it. It just won’t be a deal breaker.

    Actual false narrative to try to push for pve servers so nothing new here from you. Its a PvX game and they will design for it and balance it out on both sides.

    Only thing that is true is people have 0 clue how it will work because they have not seen or played it as its still in development. Both from pve side on how it wont be a gank fest (which is an exaggeration to push pve servers), and the maybe one or two pvp people that are making weird points wanting to flag up on everyone without consequences in certain areas.
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