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Economy Idea to benefit Crafters and Gatherers alike.

ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
in Ashes of Creation Systems and Mechanics
My hope for the economy of the game is that individual materials like Ore, Wood, Gems, etc. have a base cost. Then, when they are used to make an item, a multiplier is given to the sale based on the level of the Crafter. In this way, I feel like the Market won't get screwed up. For example:

Let's say Ore is 1 Gold each. To make a sword, it takes 5 Ore.
When a Novice creates the sword and puts it on the market, the sword sells for 7.5 Gold because a Novice gets a 1.5x Multiplier for his creation. But if a Master Crafter takes those 5 ore and makes a sword, it would sell for 15 Gold because he gets a 3x Multiplier. Obviously, the Master's item could have better Stats, too, but the point is to reign in the problem of the market getting screwed up.

In damn near every MMO I've ever played, the materials to make an item always end up being more expensive than the items themselves, which means Crafters can't afford to buy materials and then sell items for a profit unless they mark up their items so high that they're just not worth buying. It actually becomes easier to level up my own Crafter and make my own stuff.

Just a thought.

Comments

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited November 2017
    In damn near every MMO I've ever played, the materials to make an item always end up being more expensive than the items themselves

    That happens in games where crafting is too accessible, so everyone has all crafts, and then only the highest tier where you need bis-crafting-gear and doing RNG craft rotations sell for more (largely because of the fail risk, but also rarity).

    That would change if you have to specialize, if you can do unique crafts that isn't the same as the other max-insert-craft-type crafter, or at least not as likely.

    And if the crafting is in-depht enough and not just artificially made hard by RNG rotations, fewer should do it. Those who think "I should do it myself" are an exception, because most looked at crafting as "Nope, too time consuming" even in other games. They (being the devs, and world first raiders) just didn't want crafting to even approach bis, or "they would feel forced to craft", said would-be world-first raiders. Devs said it would make some people not want to raid (not understanding that not everyone raids even when the bis gear is only found there).
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    Yes raw materials costing more that a finished product has been a problem in most mmo's, can ashes fix this problem only time will tell, my hope is that they can. We know none combat professions are going to be an important part of the game, with the economy being player driven with need for raw resources, processors and crafters being interdependent.

    One fact we know is that there will be quite a number of specializations and you will only be able to become a master of one. So no characters that can do it all like in many other mmo's, yes you will have alts that may help you cover some of the other specializations, unless you have multiple accounts of course. I expect it will be no small task to level a crating profession it will take time and dedication, and as we know many players simply do not enjoy crafting.

    These things combined, only specializing in one profession, a large number of fields to specialize in and the fact not all people will be crafters should hopefully result in master crafters of the desired profession being more uncommon. With the possibility of interdependence between said crafters we should hopefully see a truly strong crafting community that will come together and work towards collective goals.

    I feel that many who may not take on the crafting professions as such may dabble in some gathering to try and make some extra gold while out in the world. Though the fact that harvestable materials will not jump out at you with sparkles, be spread out in regular small nodes may dissuade some from even gathering. But I expect many will try to make some extra cash so hopefully there will be a greater supply of raw materials that will keep prises lower.

    With the above factors hopefully we will see lower prices for raw materials, processors can buy the resources process then make their cut while selling to the crafters who can then go on to make the final products and hopefully some gold.  
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    Varkun said:
    Yes raw materials costing more that a finished product has been a problem in most mmo's, can ashes fix this problem only time will tell, my hope is that they can. 
    I feel that a large contributor to this has been the way professions have been treated in other MMOs - ie. create 20 copper swords, then 20 bronze swords, then 20 iron swords, all in the name of levelling up.

    A vast amount of resources was required for this levelling "busy work" that produced no real outcomes for the community or economy but were necessary steps in reaching the higher levels of crafting.

    People needed those lower raw resources to obtain the skill points. Remove this poorly designed burden and you take a huge step towards crafted goods becoming more expensive than raw materials.

    Plus everything @Varkun said.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    Maybe instead of making finished products to level up, you could instead engage in some sort of puzzle-like minigame. It would still require resources to complete, so there would still be an initial investment of time and money, but it would not flood the market with the works of 'amateur' artisans. After all, I doubt a blacksmith's apprentice would actually be able to sell anything for at least the first few years of his apprenticeship.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited November 2017
    You can just make stackable scrap products, which could be sold to npcs at value a bit less than the initial mat used to make it. And it would be initial investment.

    Like leather straps.

    I largely prefer this to the mini-game idea.

    You'd have the choice between making products of that level/tier, the scrap which is cheaper on mats but a loss (though you don't have to find buyers). To graduate to the next tier.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited November 2017
    This is the basic understanding of all forms of business: sell something that someone wants to obtain in exchange for something else. It's not a mystery and can be done in Ashes. Everything leading up to our selling of our product should cost us, if not money, then our time. Gathering ingredients or harvesting raw material shouldn't be overlooked! Its the ease of acquiring these materials that should influence the prices... as well as the stats of the item (i.e more dmg = more $, or better recovery = more $) 

    After a week, most will know how to get certain materials and will be experimenting with prices range. Ooooo~ those will be the most crucial moments, deciding what each resource is worth.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    Rabbit_Games said:
    My hope for the economy of the game is that individual materials like Ore, Wood, Gems, etc. have a base cost. Then, when they are used to make an item, a multiplier is given to the sale based on the level of the Crafter. In this way, I feel like the Market won't get screwed up. For example:

    Let's say Ore is 1 Gold each. To make a sword, it takes 5 Ore.
    When a Novice creates the sword and puts it on the market, the sword sells for 7.5 Gold because a Novice gets a 1.5x Multiplier for his creation. But if a Master Crafter takes those 5 ore and makes a sword, it would sell for 15 Gold because he gets a 3x Multiplier. Obviously, the Master's item could have better Stats, too, but the point is to reign in the problem of the market getting screwed up.

    In damn near every MMO I've ever played, the materials to make an item always end up being more expensive than the items themselves, which means Crafters can't afford to buy materials and then sell items for a profit unless they mark up their items so high that they're just not worth buying. It actually becomes easier to level up my own Crafter and make my own stuff.

    Just a thought.
    Crafting high tier weapons should allow for a modest gain in cost but the power level shouldnt increase exponentially.  Make crafting a "grind" in name only but require investment and you will get to know good crafters but not with a flooded market.  Addtitionally the reason you see costs of materials going up and not finished products is more a fault in population and game design than anything else.  In most games gathering is the primary source of raw materials.  Gathering is a time sink.  A boring time sink.  In a purely pve game with nothing to incentivise gathering (no random pvp,no true gold gain for sale). It may be profitable gold wise but it is a horrible net gain as opposed to other gains through pve.  No net worth gain no crafting supplies and inflation does the rest.   

    Ashes may be different in that gathering one is usefull for far more than simply crafting.  As those crafters will be wanted for more than just equipment as node sieges require siege engines.. traps..defense etc.  All made by crafters.  Entire guilds will want to support talented crafters.  Thus populations will gather etc.  In addition.  Pks will target gathering as it is a source of gain and pvp as well.  Gathering will become a hotspot.  Ie fun...not boring.  Dungeons can also become places with better gathering.  Increased risk for increased reward.  
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