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Subscription Model

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Comments

  • I have never been a fan of cash shops while I understand just cosmetic focused ones are harmless, I personally feel everything should be achieved in the game itself. Making it the even more rewarding once you finally get that rare cosmetic item or mount to make you look neat.

    Just my two cents; I don't mind paying for a sub since I know what I'll be paying for and if I don't enjoy it I'll just stop playing.

    Easy peasy.
  • A subscription model is great, I like that more than the free to play model. I'm also not against a cash shop as long as they don't lock every character customization behind the cash shop (meaning you can only get generic looking armour/weapons/mounts in-game and to get the cool ones you'd need to spend money in the cash shop). Though having a couple cosmetics/items exclusive to the cash shop is totally fine. The most important thing is that they don't sell items that give power to the character, and that they don't sell items that drop in the game.
  • Subscription model is still the best option to keep a healthy game.

    If the game offers the quality and keep P2W out of the cashshop its worth it.

    Buy to play offers to little income after the initial launch and sales dry up when the game is launched thus making it hard for the developers earn a constand stream of inccome unless they go with all that DLC contend wich is not cool if you compare that with a simple subscription model where the studio has a constand stream of income.

    It will be a purchase for me already just waiting for our community to go green light so we can all support this mmo.
  • Subscription and a cash shop with cosmetic stuff only sounds great! Looking forward to more updates on the game!
  • eso doing awsome work about this. all trion games are p2w atm.
  • Hopefully any free trial will limit in game chat so GOLD SPAMMERS will be deterred.

    In my experience there is nothing more annoying in games than gold spammers/potential fraudsters. I have abandoned several games due to this activity "spoiling" my experience.

    It would be interesting if this issue was addressed early on in development and a solution found/explored by the collective here.
  • I am more than happy to pay a monthly subscription. I actually hope there is no F2P option. Or is there is, that F2P has their own server. I've seen too many people with no vested interest attempt to ruin others experience in F2P MMOs.
  • [quote quote=524]Our inclusion of a cosmetic marketplace shop will not limit the quest/in-game cosmetic items attainable for players who choose not to purchase from the marketplace shop. Our philosophy and intent is to keep the marketplace more of a rewards oriented shop, that players can use their referral benefits to purchase in-game cosmetics and whatnot.

    I understand that many AAA corporate MMO’s have turned this idea of a marketplace into a cashgrab or pay2win function. But I assure you, that is not in any way shape or form our intent.

    Currently, our Referral Program offers players a way to earn marketplace credits and even real cashback. This marketplace gives them a place to get rewarded in-game for bringing people to our community.

    [/quote]

    Well keep this up & i assure you that you guys will have huge success with this game. Kudos!
  • Sub base ? Amen music to my ears , thank you sincerely!
  • I'm very happy they're going with a subscription model. I detest the manipulative nature that f2p or even b2p with certain cash shops creates. Obviously I'm a little concerned that there is still some kind of a cash shop, though they keep saying it won't be pay2win, but rather just cosmetic items. Still, that's a slippery slope.
  • I personally would prefer they went with a b2p model instead. in all honesty.
  • If the dev's are still following this thread .Might i make a suggestion

    I always wanted a game exactly like this.

    So i would hate to see people dragging themselfs to play just because their month will be over.

    Might I suggest a look at chronicals of aleria monetization scheme. It's not per month. It's about how much in-game time you are buying.

    Before you say "But that supports that game's design." I'd say.. It's fair. whether it's the idea came from design or from watching game time cards. It's fair

    No more being scared that you will "MISS" your game time.

    In a world as fast as this. People want to try everything and the sub model just feels like tying them down.


    Have fun everyone. That's the point of a game
  • Yes,having fun is the point of a game..
    So when it becomes a drag to play why pay?or even play,at all?
    There is no best model for games.But for quality you pay.Always has been that way and always will be.
    Honesty would be ideal,from both game developers and people who enjoy games alike.
    Game developers being honest about whether they'll work hard enough to put out quality content to be worth the subscription
    Gamers also have to be honest enough to support a game they enjoy,give it recognition it deserves.
    Both disgust me at times..some game devs for trying to trick people into believing their game actually is worth a sub
    and some gamers for taking fun time for granted,expecting all quality times and loads of new content will always be available for free.
    With honesty and transparency everyone comes a long way.Honesty to yourself but also in relation with each other.

    I'm very happy with my current mobile provider,mobile vikings.
    so you buy a bundle of an amount of your choice.
    The bundle gives you all kinds of perks,here it could be extra reputation,money gain,the ability to start guilds,have dyes account wide instead of character based.
    On top if you keep renewing the bundle for x amount of months,there could be ingame rewards like a piece of furniture for your house,or a pet,..
    A player that lets his bundle expire can still play the game for the amount of days he hasnt played for the paid gametime,although they'll lose the bundle perks.(never should these perks give a combat advantage though,then everyone will be screaming pay to win)
    (not like in starwars the old republic where you cant equip your items until you sub again,that just pissed me off so badly i instantly quite)
    I can understand why players might sometimes feel pressured to get money's worth with a sub that expires despite them having played or not...
    (but maybe its just a way of looking at it,do I support the vision of the game?or just to personally get the most out of it?If you just do it to get the most out of it,you might be fooling yourself if a game you try to get the most out of is bad in reality)
    In the end a relation with mutual consideration for each others needs lasts the longest.Thats why some flexibility would be good I think

    When players have a bundle active they could also gain the currency to buy cosmetic items in the shop,dropping from mobs next to gold sometimes
  • [quote quote=1531]I personally would prefer they went with a b2p model instead. in all honesty.

    [/quote]

    Buy to play means it's going to have an cash shop that will support the game. You can't just have B2P, it will not be able to support the game. It's either B2P + Sub, B2P + Cash Shop, or F2P/Cash Shop.
  • I think it is rather greedy to cash in three times from players. If you plan to sell the game for a full price lets say 40-50 than add 10+ as monthly sub AND put a shop on top I think this is real greed. Just because you put something in the shop and add other thins in the game to work for doesn't make it better. Some people will like the cash shop things better and will still pay for it. They are the ones that bleed the most. B2P plus shop or sub should be enough, other games can run on less with great success. I left WoW because the shop was way to greedy and I couldn't freez my account to save my time when I had no way to go online for 2 or more weeks for different reasons.
    Also I left Wow because I thought they left the part of the game out I loved the most as I started it just to make it better for the hardcore endgame raid junkies. I never got back because why throw money at them if I leave after a week of playing. I throw three weeks in form of money at them without me enjoying it.
    Also I will go and buy in the Item shop if I think you have things in there that are worth the money. So the only thing you need to do is make things for the shop that will make players give you money and feel good about it. But with a Sub it feels like you are on a leash. You either play or you have thrown out your money for nothing. There is no other way to see this. And the worst part, when the server don't run because some update was not so well done as the devs thought there was no cash back or another extra day to the playtime. So you got the money, but didn't let the players play for what they payed. Or the server are overloaded or something else hardware related has happened. You can't fix it but still get your Money but the player don't get the service they have payed for.
  • A monthly subscription would be fine with me. In-game cash shops, even those that sell only cosmetics, I have a heavy distaste for. Player-made clothing is something that's been lacking in most other MMOs I've played in over the years. At the same time, I had met some very creative people whom I've little doubt would have loved to have their own tailoring shops.

    If Intrepid does want a store, why not a web store that sells physical real life goodies? Art books, posters, prints, plushies, figurines, clothing, etc. My impression is that people like this sort of stuff. Whether such stores are normally profitable, I've no idea. It's just a thought.
  • [quote quote=1641]And the worst part, when the server don’t run because some update was not so well done as the devs thought there was no cash back or another extra day to the playtime. So you got the money, but didn’t let the players play for what they payed. Or the server are overloaded or something else hardware related has happened. You can’t fix it but still get your Money but the player don’t get the service they have payed for.[/quote]

    Most game companies who care about their players offer compensation like added time to their subscription ect in the event that they have serious server problems that prevent players from login in for an extended period of time. I don't see things being a big problem. Yeah, its upsetting especially if you have the days off and can't play.. but as long as the company makes up for it, then its not like you pay for nothing.

    Also, the mentality of I P2P therefor I feel like I must be playing all the time or else its wasted money. You really shouldn't look at it this way. I pay $100 a month for my cable package.. but I don't skip work or feel like I HAVE to be watching TV every day or else.. I also pay $60 a month for my cell plan. I don't feel like I HAVE to be talking on the phone all the time or else that money is a waste. The way you need to start looking at it is this. It costs me $30 to go see a movie at the Theatre (with drink and snack). That movie entertains me for about 2 hours. So thats a value of $15 per hour of entertainment. If I sub to an MMO game, and spend $15 a month on it. as long as a Play 1 hour during this month, I've had my money's worth. Because THAT is the value of entertainment nowadays.
  • [quote quote=1696]
    Most game companies who care about their players offer compensation like added time to their subscription ect in the event that they have serious server problems that prevent players from login in for an extended period of time. I don’t see things being a big problem. Yeah, its upsetting especially if you have the days off and can’t play.. but as long as the company makes up for it, then its not like you pay for nothing.

    Also, the mentality of I P2P therefor I feel like I must be playing all the time or else its wasted money. You really shouldn’t look at it this way. I pay $100 a month for my cable package.. but I don’t skip work or feel like I HAVE to be watching TV every day or else.. I also pay $60 a month for my cell plan. I don’t feel like I HAVE to be talking on the phone all the time or else that money is a waste. The way you need to start looking at it is this. It costs me $30 to go see a movie at the Theatre (with drink and snack). That movie entertains me for about 2 hours. So thats a value of $15 per hour of entertainment. If I sub to an MMO game, and spend $15 a month on it. as long as a Play 1 hour during this month, I’ve had my money’s worth. Because THAT is the value of entertainment nowadays.

    [/quote]

    Maybe it is just my bad experience with Blizzard that I see it as such a big deal. With them in the time of Classic and Burning Crusade there were often days you couldn't reach the server after a bigger patch came out. But even if it took two days and a whole week with connection problems to fix it, the players never got more then a written apology.

    To the movie part I can't say much, Germany has the public TV and the Privet TV stations. And we all need to pay GEZ but this goes to more then just the TV. I have no Pay TV so I can't say much to this. And the Phone is something I need to have, sadly. I would be OK with a time buy way. I think I have read this some where, you pay for so much and then only the Time you actually play is taken from this. it is somewhat of a sub modle but you can be sure to get your play time payed for. so lets say for 6*30= 180 hours for 15. When someone plays more they pay more and the other way around.

    What just sits wrong with me is the additional item shop. This just wont sit right with me. Maybe they could make the Items or the real money currency tradable ingame. But this would create a second market. I don't know what to say to this.
  • [quote quote=1699]What just sits wrong with me is the additional item shop. This just wont sit right with me. Maybe they could make the Items or the real money currency tradable ingame. But this would create a second market. I don’t know what to say to this.[/quote]

    Yeah, the problem with allowing marketplace items to be sold or traded in game , is that now you have the potential P2W aspect. It sounds like crafters will have a vital role to play in AoC and as such player made gear will likely be some of the top gear available. If that's the case, and crafters can sell that top tier gear to make some gold in game, players could now start spending hundreds of dollars on the cash shop to sell these cosmetic items for gold. This would allow the so called "Creditcard Warriors" to gear up faster than any other players.
  • But then if something comes in the shop some player like they are forced to buy it again milking them again. even if they don't want to do it but also really want this Item. Another Idea would be to allow to exchange the ingame currency to the item shop currency. This would allow players with more time but less money to access the item shop. But the exchange rate would be needed to change with the value with of the gold. Or we would need a way to hold the worth of gold stable. some sort of gold dump or so.
  • I just think if there's something you absolutely want on the cash shop, you'll likely just pay the money for it. I think its a great system especially if the cash shop has no P2W items and cosmetics only. In a game like that,. I'll gladly by stuff on the cash shop, whether it be mounts, pets, or even costumes. I have no problem forking some extra money to a game that does things fairly. I really hope that all these cash shop items will be untradable tbh.. because that's where some players will use this to get ahead of other players. And that promotes unfair advantages and a certain level of P2W.
  • ...and will the cash shop contain 'exclusives' or 'package only' deals or RNG sales ?

    It sounds like the cash shop is supposed to be 'alternative' access to goods rather than sole access.
    But many companies give the option of eternal grind wall and/or negligible RNG chance vs instant payment.
    Not really much of a choice and clearly making the choice a non-choice.

    At the end of the day the company has full control over both RNG and effort required in game to acquire goods.
    So they can manipulate sales at leisure and on the fly.
    For me a cash shop is an instant warning sign that offers nothing for the players except financial exploitation and double dipping.
    For this reason Donation+Subscription is a much more preferable model.
    I have no problem making continuous optional supplementary donations for extended projects along the lines of kickstarter.
    If the subscription pays for maintenance and upkeep only.
  • I personally look at a cosmetics only cash shop as a donation box with rewards based on how much you donate.

    I give them a bit of money, I get back a cool costume or a nice pet as a thank you for the $10.
  • @Darshx1 ...funny enough thats how I see subscription models. Ensuring the financial cogs are oiled.

    But what happens when customers are unhappy and unscubscribe..... but the infrastructure and wages still has to be paid for ?
    Wheres the money going to come from with a non loyal playerbase ?
    If the only options are subscription and cash shop....and the subscription funding is being randomly pulled and an unreliable source of income....
  • Personally for me its all about subs, if a game is good i will happily pay £10-15 per month to play it, if i can get 2-3 hours a night thats 80 hours a month for 15 quid, not bad returns.
    Then as developer income addon i see no harm in cash shops if they are done correctly, namely cosmetic. The only other thing that can work is in game gold for game time, again a similar model to Plex in EvE, whereby player X buy it directly from cash shop for $$$$s, and then can sell in game for a price that the market deems , on a free market the value is always decided by the player and never by the Dev (for example see WoW token price market against EvE plex market)

    The biggest argument against something like this is that some people who are rl cash-rich can make themselves very wealthy in game with lots of plex sales, but still the game is controlled by players, they also spread their wealth around by buying the expensive items in game that other players make, so the wealth is shared. Also, if you price your game token at a sub cost + 20-50% price then the developer is in fact making more money from players who haven't spent a real life penny , a further example of Plex, all my accounts in eve are paid for with Plex bought in game, so instead of me paying £9.99 a month for game time, i have infact bought something for same amount of game time that someone else paid £14.99 for. But for me it cost me no real life cash, this then means that even when im not able to commit my time to the game due to real life , i still sub to the game as my in game wealth allows me to, and CCP actually get £5 per account more from my in game money purchase.

    So i dont mind cash shops, as long as it allows nothing that gives you out right advantages, for eg +100 magic power from "wand of cash" of course if you want to buy my crafted Wand of cash then thats fine , but if the in game market is truly flexible then after a fairly short amount of time the markets generally find their own prices, which using plex counts almost as a basket value.

    Also by having a stimulation in the market (game time tokens) it also helps with inflation, in that most (and possibly) all MMO markets there is generally a tax on sales so takes money out of the game, without that , then inflation gets silly... So year 1 a piece of shiny armor might cost 10g, but as the player base gets wealthier that 10g soon becomes 100/1000/10k g
    but, moving onto how the market works is a whole different conversation
  • [quote quote=1802]
    Also by having a stimulation in the market (game time tokens) it also helps with inflation, in that most (and possibly) all MMO markets there is generally a tax on sales so takes money out of the game, without that , then inflation gets silly… So year 1 a piece of shiny armor might cost 10g, but as the player base gets wealthier that 10g soon becomes 100/1000/10k g
    but, moving onto how the market works is a whole different conversation

    [/quote]

    One thing I see as a problem with this, they would need to make it so that the wealth of player doesn't grow to strong. With siege and large PVP battles the game will need new player all the time. But when the money gap becomes to big newer players could leave. even more so if the best items are made by player and sold to other player. Not only will the price for gear rise constantly, but simple materials and services will cost more and more. So a service like repair or making an item would cost 5 g at the beginning of the game later the player will ask for 50 or 500 alone for doing this job. not for mats, but for the service of just doing this. This is the profit the player will want to make. The price will simple rice because they want to buy things for them self but the price for this items will have reached the 100 g or even more. And again the price for materials comes in this too.

    Some sort of money dump that won't reflect on the economy would be great to hold the prices stable and the gold in motion.
  • [quote quote=1802]Personally for me its all about subs, if a game is good i will happily pay £10-15 per month to play it, if i can get 2-3 hours a night thats 80 hours a month for 15 quid, not bad returns.
    Then as developer income addon i see no harm in cash shops if they are done correctly, namely cosmetic. The only other thing that can work is in game gold for game time, again a similar model to Plex in EvE, whereby player X buy it directly from cash shop for $$$$s, and then can sell in game for a price that the market deems , on a free market the value is always decided by the player and never by the Dev (for example see WoW token price market against EvE plex market)[/quote]

    See, in a game like WoW, I would not disagree. Because the top gear in WoW, or most of the top gear is obtained by raiding and is bound when picked up. In game where top gear is player crafted and can be traded, this is a completely different matter imo. Just look at ArcheAge for a good example. There are sooo many players in Archeage that are willing to spend thousands of dollars to gain an edge, that these top player crafted items are simply out of reach for the average player. And ultimately, it became a P2W game where all the players with a lot of real money controlled the economy and the prices of merchandise.

    Do not underestimate player's ability to spend a lot of money. ArcheAge is an extremely niche game and its playerbase is not very large.. but of the few players who do play, many of them have spent very large amounts of money in a game that is advertised as F2P. And sure.. its one thing if you have a lot of money in real life. But even players who don't have a lot of money and who are hooked to the game will find ways to spend thousands of dollars to fuel their addiction if it means getting ahead of other players.
  • I agree with the archeage synopsis, i am one o fhte players who plays, but not a wallet warrior, i pay for my monthly subs and only income i make in game is what i use, which is why im poor :)

    In fact all 3 games referred too have ingame currency usable for buying game time and personally in order of preference on how its handled by the rest of the games mechanics has dictated on the variable p2w option

    3 - Archeage, there is no doubt this is p2w, but its also p2w more because the token doesn't give game time but credits to spend in the cash shop that iin turns offers advantage over other players, its very rare (on my server) to see top rated items up for sale crafted, but the problem with wealth comes down to very little cash sinks and lots of ways to earn cash - which seem to get more and more common as game as aged.

    2 - WoW - Their difference being that as you already discussed most high end gear comes from either pvp shop which involves earning the rating and spending the rewards on better gear, or dungeon crawling for the best bop items, but again this wasn't always case, you could comparable items from crafting but the mat requirements were crazy!. But their game tokens are set at a dev value regardless of how many are listed etc. But then again WoW isn't open world / sandbox.

    1 - EvE- because of the nature of the game winning doesn't exist, there is no winning in eve, yes you could own titans galore, each one costing the equivalent of 80 months of game time (about 90bill isk) but these ships are only useful in limited combat and even then are risky to field, but their plex price is determined by the players, and because the market has been well thought out this controls the limits of what impact wealth has on the game.

    Now you could go further in that the gear required is all standard but to decide if its usage is pvp or pve is what its then 'imbued' with, so for pvp gear you need to earn points or a different (non gold) currency that can be used in vendors to buy imbues that give you resistance so the armor thats crafted then becomes primarily pvp focused, this currency is only earnt doing pvp activities and once purchased in BoP where as pve imbues you can buy items from players or crafters.
    So for eg.

    Sword - best in game is crafted with

    +10 damage
    +10 agility
    +10 attack speed.
    However in pvp it requires A.N other stat like piercing, which can only be added by using a +10 piercing scroll from vendor, where as in pve you could add a +10 strike from a player made scroll

    Removing the player crafting from just pvp side of defense etc removes the p2w option , because if you have wealth you might be able to kill boss, but against players you XXX gold item is almost worthless because you haven't purchased the pvp 'imbue' gems/scrolls that have to be earnt by defending / attacking caravans.


    Using this type of model still ensures that the top gear is player made, its just after item has been made the owner decides if it should be pvp or pve gear.
  • I've debated so many times about this topic that I'm already tired of explaining why I think the way I do, so just count me 100% into the monthly subscription side of the brawl.
  • @Innadril Love your Roguish Bard Avatar ;)
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