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MMO Player (15 years of experience :)) ) suggestions and questions

Before I mention stuff remember this is just my POV and questions and suggestions, I'm used to reddit threads and know how easy people get triggered this days over nothing but here I go:
- I understand we will have cosmetics but a significant aspect of the MMO "feel" comes from how you look, the journeys you overcame and rewards you got. Visuals and gear is something you earn by being "gud" and investing time in the game, if cosmetics will look better than let's say the equivalent of warglavies of azinoth in WoW, this might be kinda bad for the game. I'm all for cosmetics like costumes or fun/troll items but having the coolest looking armor and weapon in game by not accomplishing anything is really bad (even tho most people don't realize it - looking at someone who has that cool gear that's super dificult to obtain makes you look up to them and strive for improvement and better yourself and have a goal. If you look at someone who's BiS geared and looks like shit compared to someone who payed for his cosmetics you lose a lot of motivation for people to achieve that gear in the first place ... like why bother?
- Having in the future boss encounters that not everyone can get is something important in games as well. Similar to the mounts approach you already have - because only a few will have it at a time per server it will increase its value, if everyone on the server has it it has zero value (again, something common players don't realize since it's more of a psychological aspect )
- Everything wrong with mmos this days comes from instant gratification from players - you log on, you get max level, you get full epics, everyone looks the same (LFR vs Mythic world top gear in wow looks the same), everyone has the same mounts, you get dragged and spoonfed what to do as well. You create value for items/titles/mounts in the game by creating scarcity, having few of X makes people want it, strive to better themselves to do better, to collaborate and make friends to achieve it etc.

Basically I'm not saying to destroy casual players and lock them out of every aspect of the game, but basically having equality of opportunity but not equality of outcome would make this game in my opinion a masterpiece. RMT will happen regardless of what you do in any game, I agree, but even in WoW's "back in my days" time you knew on your server who earned their gear or who got boosted, there were active GM's as well and I know cases where some of those examples got banned with their warglavies equipped. So the world won't be perfect, but if you don't set the rules for people to strive towards making it better it's going to become just another solo RPG game where even in the top guilds people just login to kill a few bosses or take over a castle and log off, cause there's no reason to try and interact with other players, since the other players have no reasons to interact with you (casuals won't bother to spend time for the same item with 10 extra vitality on them when they have to invest 10x the time for example).
If you are casual in a game like this you will be happier for a blue item more than you will be for an end game legendary weapon in a game like wow is currently and you will have a reason to ... play a MMO which might include you know... talking to people and starting a challenging adventure VS joining a LFR pressing 3 buttons 100 times and looting a shiny item that has zero value (worse value than a green item 10 years ago).

I don't know... I might be a boomer and just don't get it. But another example is lost ark... like... why bother playing it when I have to spend a month to look exactly the same like everyone on the server and be forced to have either 15 alts to be able to do content at a decent pace or spend thousands of dollars to do so. And for what? to look exactly the same like the entire server once again but with 10 extra gear score level ?

Comments

  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    It sounds like you're tired of Themeparks and are making a post of heartfelt support for the current design philosophy of Ashes?

    Welcome to the realm, O Highfather.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
  • I'll watch some videos and learn more about this project ... I was impressed I'll also have no issues bending over my credit card when it launches if it's at least structurally still on the same path they intent to follow.
    I'm good with waiting, if there's anything the latest "good games" forced me to learn is to be patient and wait.
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Check the wiki out as well.
    My phone doesn't like to link properly or I would link it for you.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Speaking of credit cards, @Highfather - there is no PTW whatsoever in AoC.
  • CriminalCupcakeCriminalCupcake Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Highfather wrote: »
    Before I mention stuff remember this is just my POV and questions and suggestions, I'm used to reddit threads and know how easy people get triggered this days over nothing but here I go:
    - I understand we will have cosmetics but a significant aspect of the MMO "feel" comes from how you look, the journeys you overcame and rewards you got. Visuals and gear is something you earn by being "gud" and investing time in the game, if cosmetics will look better than let's say the equivalent of warglavies of azinoth in WoW, this might be kinda bad for the game. I'm all for cosmetics like costumes or fun/troll items but having the coolest looking armor and weapon in game by not accomplishing anything is really bad (even tho most people don't realize it - looking at someone who has that cool gear that's super dificult to obtain makes you look up to them and strive for improvement and better yourself and have a goal. If you look at someone who's BiS geared and looks like shit compared to someone who payed for his cosmetics you lose a lot of motivation for people to achieve that gear in the first place ... like why bother?
    - Having in the future boss encounters that not everyone can get is something important in games as well. Similar to the mounts approach you already have - because only a few will have it at a time per server it will increase its value, if everyone on the server has it it has zero value (again, something common players don't realize since it's more of a psychological aspect )
    - Everything wrong with mmos this days comes from instant gratification from players - you log on, you get max level, you get full epics, everyone looks the same (LFR vs Mythic world top gear in wow looks the same), everyone has the same mounts, you get dragged and spoonfed what to do as well. You create value for items/titles/mounts in the game by creating scarcity, having few of X makes people want it, strive to better themselves to do better, to collaborate and make friends to achieve it etc.

    Basically I'm not saying to destroy casual players and lock them out of every aspect of the game, but basically having equality of opportunity but not equality of outcome would make this game in my opinion a masterpiece. RMT will happen regardless of what you do in any game, I agree, but even in WoW's "back in my days" time you knew on your server who earned their gear or who got boosted, there were active GM's as well and I know cases where some of those examples got banned with their warglavies equipped. So the world won't be perfect, but if you don't set the rules for people to strive towards making it better it's going to become just another solo RPG game where even in the top guilds people just login to kill a few bosses or take over a castle and log off, cause there's no reason to try and interact with other players, since the other players have no reasons to interact with you (casuals won't bother to spend time for the same item with 10 extra vitality on them when they have to invest 10x the time for example).
    If you are casual in a game like this you will be happier for a blue item more than you will be for an end game legendary weapon in a game like wow is currently and you will have a reason to ... play a MMO which might include you know... talking to people and starting a challenging adventure VS joining a LFR pressing 3 buttons 100 times and looting a shiny item that has zero value (worse value than a green item 10 years ago).

    I don't know... I might be a boomer and just don't get it. But another example is lost ark... like... why bother playing it when I have to spend a month to look exactly the same like everyone on the server and be forced to have either 15 alts to be able to do content at a decent pace or spend thousands of dollars to do so. And for what? to look exactly the same like the entire server once again but with 10 extra gear score level ?

    I think somewhere they said cosmetics wouldn't look better than high end gear. May look equally badass, but i dont think they'll have any more flair than the rest.
  • HighfatherHighfather Member
    edited June 2021
    @CriminalCupcake that's harsh for my liking ... but then again I'd be happy if at least we could dissociate between earned gear and paid gear ... or at least to not have people who break your emersion.. like I don't know like having a super mario costume or something could be a bit of a boner killer.
    But I guess that's a good sacrifice to have in order to have a good game...
    You have to understand that the reason so many games fell is money... if the devs of this game will not make enough money the game will die since they will recourse to the modern day "prostitution" methods.
    I'm not saying that the current CEO won't do this for a while ... but he can't be at the helm forever and just like blizzard, after 20 years (best case scenario) you wanna retire as well :))
    Let's hope the game is good and we pay tribute to the makers so they're happy, invest in the game and make us happy as well...
    If having furries in the MMO I like is mandatory in nowdays monetary requirements to make and maintain a proper MMO it's a pill my pretentious ass is willing to swollow.

    PS: @tautau I understand that but like for example in PoE it's another F2P game and I spend 60-100$ each season not because I care about more bank slots or cosmetics I simply like to support the devs for making a game I can still play - and I'm pretty sure there's a lot of MMO boomers like me with a job that can do that... pretty much an untapped market of 30 year olds that have jobs now
  • Yeah, Not too big a fan of all the armor cosmetics in the cash shop, it should be like suits and dresses etc and stuff like that.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Highfather wrote: »
    I understand that but like for example in PoE it's another F2P game and I spend 60-100$ each season
    While I do like PoE (my current game of choice), it is important to note that GGG was bought out by Tencent, in part because PoE wasnt making as much money as the developers would have liked.

    It was making enough to run the fame for a while, enough to fund some additional new content, but not enough to fund the major updates the game has had, let alone PoE2.

    Also, being an ARPG, PoE has significantly lower server requirements than a full persistent open world MMO requires -- and this costs a lot of money.

    Now, most of us here want Intrepid to remain independent, rather than being purchased by a Tencent, Activision or Microsoft (or Amazon, which I think to be most likely if Intrepid ever needed to be sold).
    A big part of keeping that a reality is the combination of subscription and cosmetic cash shop.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited June 2021
    We will be able to tell the difference between cash shop gear and in-game gear.
    The best gear will be found in-game and can also be mixed and matched, like in Friday's Dev Livestream.
  • @Noaani completely agree with you.
    I also think the MMO has much more playerbase than hack and slash games too, especially ones that look like PoE (let's be fair and admit it looks like crap) people mainly likes the mapping and bossing aspects of the game but still ... the game design with 1000000 nodes but in reality the meta dilutes it to a simple question of "how much HP nodes I need to connect" on hardcore and "how much damage nodes can i connect" on softfore ... if you look at it outside of it it's just a mediocre at best RPG with a well made character progression mechanics in place - you can clearly see this happening once harvest came and made content trivial, that most players did that content and now there's less carrot on a stick for casuals since all the mysteries have been unraveled for them (me included... I cleared all content in harvest and the next season on ssfhc and literally got bored of the game for the first time in years).

    As for maintaining independence - I completely agree. I'm sure that the monthly subs coupled with the cash shop will be fine, but we'll wait and see I suppose. I really want once again in my life to get immersed in a MMO once again. I saw more videos and like even for mount cosmetics you need to unlock the mount first - this is a great idea that I never thought about. Gona watch videos and wait patiently for the release I think :)
  • I'm with you on most of your sentiments. I have been playing MMO's since Shadowbane and SWG and there has just been so much done wrong. I might get strung up for saying this but: WoW never did it for me. It was interesting in the beginning simply by virtue of being new and cool and inventing/refining a lot of systems but...I've tried and failed to get into any MMO's since the early days. Hoping this game will recapture some of that magic
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