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PVP - Ganking/PKing Accountability.
Vissah
Member
Dear Ashes of Creation and community,
I’ll try to write this as efficient as possible, so no one gets bored. And perhaps someone of the team read this.
My name is Nick, I am from the Netherlands. 32 years old.
My ideas/thoughts come from old-school MMORPGS.
So we all agree that this “sense of danger” in the open world is what we want from Ashes of Creation. Unlike “always progress” in most modern 3d MMORPGS.
Accountability for ganking/pking:
You don’t want to be ganked by some “random” gankers/PK’ers in the world. Gankers/PKers you don’t even know. This will make you feel bad and empty and “nothing you can do about it”, but there was an mmorpg which made you feel like you COULD do something about it. It was (now oldschool) Tibia. When you died by gankers/Pkers every player of Tibia would have the feeling: I’ll get them later’ and you would suck it up and get better, make more levels and grind. Then after a while you could have your revenge.
How could you have revenge?
You had a spell called “Exiva *playername*” and then the game client would tell you that the player you are looking for is north, east, south or west. Or when they are far away it would say the person is “far to the east” (So it’s not too detailed to where the player is, you would actually have to make some effort into finding the person by traveling to places and then use the spell). This makes it possible to hold someone accountable for killing you once upon a time. Or if you have a conflict with a person you can go search for them. You can also find a group/guild with this spell…
This system could also be abused because you could just go to a person time after time and make their life miserable. HOWEVER, this person could also use this spell on you and see you coming.
You would be safe if the spell said you the *playername* is Very Far to the North.
This whole “see where a player is” adds to players being hold accountable for their pking/ganking actions.
Also this system makes the gankers/pkers more feared and hated. It evens out the “random” pk/groups a bit by the community of the server you play in.
Let’s say you died by 2 gankers with names X and Y. In ANY modern MMORPG nowadays like Albion for example you would just leave it be and the gankers would just keep doing it, perhaps change areas.. But now with this system, nope… Chances are you will be hunted by the person you killed, the person you killed might have called his friends. This spell in some kind of form changes the dynamic of the game, makes it more personal. And back then it WORKED, why shouldn’t it have to work again?
This system got complimented by Tibia’s website, on which you can enter your characters name (or any other names). And you would see who killed the person in the past (up some x amount of lines)
Now some random thoughts from other games:
I don’t like the FULL LOOT loss, however I do like the partial loot loss (just personal opinion). In Tibia you could lose from 0 to all gear pieces you were wearing. But ALWAYS your bag and everything in it.
But you also had a corruption-like system, if you were a RED Skull (that’s bad) you would lose ALL your gear.
And if you were a peaceful player, the other case descripted above. So when you died you would immediately respawn, take a deep breath and see what you had lost… “thank got it were only my boots I lost”.
BUT you could protect yourself from loss of items + bag: For example you take out your BEST ITEMS to the most feared dungeon, you could buy an “Amulet of loss”. This amulet had 1 charge and would be broken upon dieing. This amulet would prevent any loss of items. BUT it was very expensive; as it should be.
(Of course amulet of loss could also be used against gankers)
If you want to be protected, you have to pay up. Something like the real world huh 😉
If corrupted: you decrease your loodrop-rate
Nahh why would you add this? Would a corrupted player go in DEEP in the wild to grind loot/levels? Not with this system. He would just “wait it out” or do save corruption-reducing activities.
No revenge can be taken on this corrupted evil person with the Accountability system described before.. (the “find player” system).
If there's any interest I could go deeper into this and perhaps make a YT video for more and better details.
Cheers!
I’ll try to write this as efficient as possible, so no one gets bored. And perhaps someone of the team read this.
My name is Nick, I am from the Netherlands. 32 years old.
My ideas/thoughts come from old-school MMORPGS.
So we all agree that this “sense of danger” in the open world is what we want from Ashes of Creation. Unlike “always progress” in most modern 3d MMORPGS.
Accountability for ganking/pking:
You don’t want to be ganked by some “random” gankers/PK’ers in the world. Gankers/PKers you don’t even know. This will make you feel bad and empty and “nothing you can do about it”, but there was an mmorpg which made you feel like you COULD do something about it. It was (now oldschool) Tibia. When you died by gankers/Pkers every player of Tibia would have the feeling: I’ll get them later’ and you would suck it up and get better, make more levels and grind. Then after a while you could have your revenge.
How could you have revenge?
You had a spell called “Exiva *playername*” and then the game client would tell you that the player you are looking for is north, east, south or west. Or when they are far away it would say the person is “far to the east” (So it’s not too detailed to where the player is, you would actually have to make some effort into finding the person by traveling to places and then use the spell). This makes it possible to hold someone accountable for killing you once upon a time. Or if you have a conflict with a person you can go search for them. You can also find a group/guild with this spell…
This system could also be abused because you could just go to a person time after time and make their life miserable. HOWEVER, this person could also use this spell on you and see you coming.
You would be safe if the spell said you the *playername* is Very Far to the North.
This whole “see where a player is” adds to players being hold accountable for their pking/ganking actions.
Also this system makes the gankers/pkers more feared and hated. It evens out the “random” pk/groups a bit by the community of the server you play in.
Let’s say you died by 2 gankers with names X and Y. In ANY modern MMORPG nowadays like Albion for example you would just leave it be and the gankers would just keep doing it, perhaps change areas.. But now with this system, nope… Chances are you will be hunted by the person you killed, the person you killed might have called his friends. This spell in some kind of form changes the dynamic of the game, makes it more personal. And back then it WORKED, why shouldn’t it have to work again?
This system got complimented by Tibia’s website, on which you can enter your characters name (or any other names). And you would see who killed the person in the past (up some x amount of lines)
Now some random thoughts from other games:
I don’t like the FULL LOOT loss, however I do like the partial loot loss (just personal opinion). In Tibia you could lose from 0 to all gear pieces you were wearing. But ALWAYS your bag and everything in it.
But you also had a corruption-like system, if you were a RED Skull (that’s bad) you would lose ALL your gear.
And if you were a peaceful player, the other case descripted above. So when you died you would immediately respawn, take a deep breath and see what you had lost… “thank got it were only my boots I lost”.
BUT you could protect yourself from loss of items + bag: For example you take out your BEST ITEMS to the most feared dungeon, you could buy an “Amulet of loss”. This amulet had 1 charge and would be broken upon dieing. This amulet would prevent any loss of items. BUT it was very expensive; as it should be.
(Of course amulet of loss could also be used against gankers)
If you want to be protected, you have to pay up. Something like the real world huh 😉
If corrupted: you decrease your loodrop-rate
Nahh why would you add this? Would a corrupted player go in DEEP in the wild to grind loot/levels? Not with this system. He would just “wait it out” or do save corruption-reducing activities.
No revenge can be taken on this corrupted evil person with the Accountability system described before.. (the “find player” system).
If there's any interest I could go deeper into this and perhaps make a YT video for more and better details.
Cheers!
3
Comments
I wonder if it would just result in players abusing other players, streamers having a bad time for example or perhaps high status players within the game would have this spell cast on them so the player base could just follow them around stealing their loot etc?
Corruption shoud work fine for those of us who don't enjoy PvP combat very much and don't want to be forced into PvP combat when we aren't interested in PvP combat.
We can get instant "revenge" by giving our killers Corruption simply by refusing to fight back.
Ah thank you for your response!
Yes I forgot to add this. High-end streamers, or streamers with an x amount of average viewers should be protected. Perhaps their name shouldnt be able to be found with the system described in my post.
This could be monitored by good GMs/people from Intrepid.
Abuse:
Of course it can be abused, but now the abusers are known too. Back in Tibia you had people you feared, they misbehaved (within the rules of the game) and later they were eaten up aswell by more fair/peaceful players. This "find player" created so much great more communication.
It makes playernames have so much more depth. If you see a "known ganker" you make sure you get the hell out of there. And why do you know this player? Because of the "find player" system and all that it brings along.
In Tibia there was some form of "respect" to certain players. In Albion Online or New World (for what it's worth) the pvp is still so unpersonal and empty, there's no will to come back better.
Because if you are a ganker yourself you wont be feared, because pvp are random/anonymous encounters. And if you are ganked you won't have this "I have to grind/get better" feeling because again; you will feel like you were just at the wrong place at the wrong time. Anonymous and Random.
Of the top of my head:
- Can find only the pkers/gankers and not anyone in the world. If X/Y have killed me then I can use this spell to find only X/Y and not Z. This is the minimum limit which would need to be placed on this system. There is no way to implicitly specify who is a streamer and who is not. The limitation has to be generic.
- Some time limit for how long this would enable someone to gank their pkers. Say 2 weeks time or a month.
- Cannot find guilds/social orgs/etc because why should it?
- You lose this systems support if you gain corruption. Lets say X/Y has ganked me and afterwards I grief someone else and gain corruption. Now I would not be able to use this to find X/Y till I lose the corruption and ofc time limit is still applicable.
"Amulet of loss" is a good idea. Maybe it can be a raid-wide reward for killing a world boss so that if they happen to get ganked on their way back to their node they have some safety net.
The point is that it gives players a choice - You want payback or not, cuz I imagine depending on my mood I would definitely be using this feature.
PS: Do I support this? Hell yes! Pre-launch or as a part of an expansion, either is fine.
Maybe if someone "Exiva *Vissah*" me, I get a message that I am being searched?
Thank you for your thoughts.
And like Dygz said, quite a lot of people wouldn't care for the revenge part just because they don't want to participate in the pvp at all. Also, in the current system there'd probably be no real revenge. If a pver gets killed and decides to then go and enact revenge, their killer would just fight back immediately and win, because, the chances are, the PKer has better gear than the pver. And if the pver brings a group of friends with them, the PKer would probably not fight back and make someone from that group become a PKer themselves which would only make life worse for the friend group.
Now I could see some in-lore system that would help out the victims of PKers, where the victim could give the name of a PKer to some religious NPCs in the divine node and the name of the PKer would be shouted by other NPCs of that religion if the PKer enters their "agro range". Similar thing could be done in military nodes with guards or in economic nodes where you'd pay some money to "bribe" guards to warn you about that PKer coming close. And the scientific node could maybe have some quest or require some "knowledge trade" to provide you this service.
Alternatively you could just post the PKer's name on the tavern's postboard and the mayor might be able to relate that info to the node's guards and they'd shout in chat if they saw a "known PKer".
2. Isn't 1 month more than enough? How long do you think people will hold grudges for this sort of thing? There will be more pkers during this period as well. A person wanting revenge should have a sense of urgency too, I think. Merely my opinion, nothing game breaking otherwise.
3. Finding groups/guilds via finding players is fine. What I meant was it can be used in that way if a player is dedicated enough to go after the guild as well or for whatever reason. But that is through the players initiative and efforts, not via spoon-feeding for no apparent reason.
4. I thought of this as a way to penalize being corrupted, just food for thought.
5. As for informing a person that they are being searched for by some anonymous person is quite evil...hehehe
It sure has taken a turn for worse. Its not just you.
Its just a system facilitating revenge against your griefers. Its entirely upto you to make use of it or not. Not to mention if you grief someone there is a chance that they might come after you too. If a player is not confident in their PvP skills then dont go after your pker and that's the end of that.
That is a nice twist of how to implement this, but the OP has proposed providing general direction only, nothing else. As there is no fast travel in AoC and distance is not specified, not to mention the risk of open world PvP, it is going to be risky chasing your griefer as well. So it will take some gut, time and skill to enact revenge.
Explain to me how this isn't going to just better enable the type of ganking game play you wish to reduce, a system where a person wanting to gank you just needs to use this spell to find you themselves?
That is exactly what I see happening. It would not be used as intended just for greifing.
I like the idea of personal accountability for the corrupted fiends through their names becoming recognized, but i believe this should be a organic process of infamy that spreads through player knowledge, rumors and experience, and not through an enforced game information system.
From personal experience in Lineage 2, i can assure you infamy will naturaly come for those who missbehave around.
Aren't we all sinners?
This thread has been a great deep dive into an interesting interpretation of how this system could work! Great conversation, everyone 😃
The first one I came up with - and so the most obvious to me - is that you could use it to see if the local caravan annoyance is online or not. Whether a person or a guild, this system would allow you to gain information on them to help with a decision as to whether or not you want to run that caravan you have ready now, or wait for later.
It could also assist in uncovering a spy in your guild.
At an absolute minimum, a system like this should tell the person that the player in question is looking for them.
Yes, this is the Ultima Online from the 90s is still the best MMORPG ever.
Why ganking is important to any healthy MMO that has was:
-it is assymetrical war
-clears the game of botters, afk players, macroers, gold farmers and so making a healthier economy
-prevent's dangerous greedy people from achievement economical might
-creates content
-creates the sense of danger
-creates more styles of gameplay like: baiting, man hunting, street justice, vendettas, etc
-for fightting against opressors, sometimes the new players can only deal with old players by ganking
No ganker should receive any kind of penalty, in many cases gankers are the server's heroes.
also, its pretty obvious when someone will try to attack you before they do...and if it isnt..dont worry it will be after playing the game for a while