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Dev Discussion #40 - Enemy Indicators

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Comments

  • GutzgoreGutzgore Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited May 2022
    I would like to see some sort of knowledge system, maybe this could be a bestiary of sorts where you have almost no information on the enemy your fighting until you have gained that knowledge through experience. The experience on the particular enemy can be gained more and more to unlock more and more detail. Then at some point you learn all there is to know about this enemy.

    This will help to give a bit of that mystery in the beginning, transition into some information being available for those that like to see some but not all info and then also provide the precise details for others that want it once they have fought this enemy before enough times (or maybe others ways can grant knowledge on an enemy like research or rewards or something). Then give the ability at any stage of earning knowledge to turn anything you have learned off or on. Once you have unlocked all knowledge you can then either have it all on or off or somewhere in between.

    I think this is best for all worlds.

    Of course allowing players to add or remove UI elements to their liking.

    Oh and it would great to have an actual visual bestiary of what you have killed. Its basically like collecting mounts or pets or anything else. You want to complete this as much as possible and gives incentive to explore and kill stuff. Maybe you can also provide rewards for killing enough of an enemy or unlocking certain groups of enemy's in the bestiary. I know this is going a bit off topic now.. but damn this would so cool.
  • Do not know if this is decided yet, no indicators please!

  • This is a perfect opportunity for a game to have indicators directly related to race and/or class.

    Can a Py'Rai see someone hiding in the bushes better than a Ren"Kai?
    Can a Mage notice other Mages better than a Summoner can because they sense the magic?
    Can a Hawkeye see farther than a Guardian?

    The indicator system can even be put into skill trees to be able to upgrade or augment. Maybe the indicator changes based on class?

    An Indicator is a buff if the enemy does not have one. Can a player be rewarded by not using them? Higher crit/damage? Longer CC? Less mana cost?

    Maybe it can be a server setting.

    Personally, I feel like the less the indicator the better. Unfortunately, this can turn difficulty way up in certain games, especially if you're capped by your PC's quality.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited August 2022
    Classes, probably.
    We haven't heard about racial skills, yet.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member
    I’d rather have infravision than a combat indicator on a player allowing me to click on them in a bush.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • I prefer being able to see enemy health bars. Nothing worse than playing a healer and "helping" to fight a monster for 10+ minutes only to find out the DPS you were healing is doing no damage to the mob.
  • BracuBracu Member
    Gutzgore wrote: »
    I would like to see some sort of knowledge system, maybe this could be a bestiary of sorts where you have almost no information on the enemy your fighting until you have gained that knowledge through experience. The experience on the particular enemy can be gained more and more to unlock more and more detail. Then at some point you learn all there is to know about this enemy.

    This will help to give a bit of that mystery in the beginning, transition into some information being available for those that like to see some but not all info and then also provide the precise details for others that want it once they have fought this enemy before enough times (or maybe others ways can grant knowledge on an enemy like research or rewards or something). Then give the ability at any stage of earning knowledge to turn anything you have learned off or on. Once you have unlocked all knowledge you can then either have it all on or off or somewhere in between.

    I think this is best for all worlds.

    Of course allowing players to add or remove UI elements to their liking.

    Oh and it would great to have an actual visual bestiary of what you have killed. Its basically like collecting mounts or pets or anything else. You want to complete this as much as possible and gives incentive to explore and kill stuff. Maybe you can also provide rewards for killing enough of an enemy or unlocking certain groups of enemy's in the bestiary. I know this is going a bit off topic now.. but damn this would so cool.


    i know this answer is 2 month's delayed, but as this threat popped up again ill have my shot on it!

    i really like the idea you got going here! it could even be linked with achivements or map completion as of " researched all monster in the area"

    as for me i am torn between the no indications and have them all, and i think what you suggested gets the best out of both worlds while still having the exploration.

    AoC hype
  • i would say that you have Old School Style so you can prevent stupid deaths. Or you can see the range of mooblevel on the map. (Like GW2 and others do)

    but against Bosses i would prefer Hard Core No Indicators (TTRPG) Style, because they are Bosses and probably out in the open Field or somewhere were other players can "steal" your bosskill and also loot just by lasthit or highes DSP- witch is really bad experience for lower/new Players
  • MaviodasMaviodas Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Hard Core No Indicators (TTRPG) Style: You do not know the power of the enemy, nor it's intended audience until you encounter and learn about it through your combat experience.

    This would be my preference. I come from very hardcore PvP games where, you see no info about the enemy except that, they are an enemy. I'm a firm believer in "F*** around and find out." mechanics like you see in EvE Online and other such sandbox hardcore games.
  • I prefer less to no indicators for greater immersion. I love the suggestion I saw above by Sir_Brand of having a tinge around the edge of the screen. Something subtle to give me a "gut feeling" of danger without clogging my screen. There are many rpg thrillers or horror games that do this well. It could also change depending on the number of party members near to help you fight the enemy.
  • Just let players choose for themselves or keep it somewhat casual. Catering mostly to hardcore players means that you will miss out on a lot of players and potential new customers!
  • It kinda depends on the systems in the combat, if you will miss your attacks 90% of the time on a 5 lvl higher mob or an "elite" mob, its an indicator after combat has started, witch means you will run away. This is a time sink that does not feel good, and a tank and healer will probably feel out what the boss damage, so this is an indicator. Then why not just show us what it is at the start. So level and rarity can be shown, but perhaps resistance/resilience and weaknesses can be hidden and explored/shared among players.
  • ogreogre Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Old school sounds best to me. Maybe add a little icon or something if an enemy is only intended to be fought by a party. Giving players too much information can be just as bad as not giving them enough. I would also be ok with no indication whatsoever.
  • DizzDizz Member
    I would like to have a hybrid version like how Nier:Automata did with the chips and difficulty to make game mode can be more forgiving to casual players.

    Players who would like to have something like "Hard Core No Indicators (TTRPG) Style" it's great and let’s say this is our baseline, and let’s make a skill that make character remember things for players like the monster’s weak spot and maybe can even further invest in the skill to show indicators like incoming attack warning or effect range etc to not hardcore players.
    A casual follower from TW.

    ↓Good youtube channel to learn things about creating games.↓
    Masahiro Sakurai on Creating Games:
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv1DvRY5PyHHt3KN9ghunuw
  • PlandemoniumPlandemonium Member
    edited August 2022
    1. The circular purple markers under the monsters should be more unobtrusive. In alpha 1 they just looked bad. In addition, they were bugging the environment.

    2. It would be nice to see some system that would imitate intuition. A nice system that replaced the redundant UI indicators was in Ghost of Tsushima, where instead of directional arrow, we were directed to the target by gusts of wind.

    Overall, I would most like a hardcore TTRPG with some sort of intuition system. Let's say the intuition system would only show up when we meet an enemy who directly threatens our lives and is far beyond our abilities.

    gvtvuy3hpe0v.jpg

    Let's say something similar to the above image pops up for 0.5 sec like a jump scare from a horror movie with the added effect of screen vibration. Imagine you are walking through a cave with an inventory full of materials that you might lose, when suddenly "something" tells you that it would be wiser to turn around and take a different route.

    However, it would have to be well optimized so as not to irritate players. it's important that it doesn't pop up too often.


  • intended audience
  • CountPips wrote: »
    This is a perfect opportunity for a game to have indicators directly related to race and/or class.

    Can a Py'Rai see someone hiding in the bushes better than a Ren"Kai?
    Can a Mage notice other Mages better than a Summoner can because they sense the magic?
    Can a Hawkeye see farther than a Guardian?

    The indicator system can even be put into skill trees to be able to upgrade or augment. Maybe the indicator changes based on class?

    An Indicator is a buff if the enemy does not have one. Can a player be rewarded by not using them? Higher crit/damage? Longer CC? Less mana cost?

    Maybe it can be a server setting.

    Personally, I feel like the less the indicator the better. Unfortunately, this can turn difficulty way up in certain games, especially if you're capped by your PC's quality.

    Yes yes a thousand times yes.There needs to be some kind of class/race system for setting "nameplate" ranges on different types of mobs. Idk about making it skill tree based at all, but tied to races definitely and augmented... perhaps.
    5lntw0unofqp.gif
  • hleVhleV Member
    Unless the target is selected, the nameplate should only automatically pop up when within close proximity.
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