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Sanctus pre starting area tutorial

ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
edited July 9 in General Discussion
Whats everyone's thoughts on this?

Most games have a pre combat sort of tutorial, " think new world with its first few minutes introduction quest ", something that introduces the player to the game, shows some key binds, and different aspects.

What if, we start our journey on sanctus, I don't think it would be to much work to build an instanced starter area for just one pre quest, the adventurerer there signs up to the expedition to verra in a lore rich cinematic, followed by some basic combat and gathering introductions as we make our way to the grand portals. There we find huge breathtaking portals one for each biome and the adventurerer can choose which one they want to take and where they want to start.

I think this would be a really cool Introduction to the game a tiny backstory of before the journey through the portals, giving the player a glimpse and the lore behind ashes.

I don't think something like this would happen but what if :)

What do you guys want for a tutorial type quest line or none at all?
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    ApokApok Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    spend enough time making a character, just plop me in
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    ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Apok wrote: »
    spend enough time making a character, just plop me in

    This will be done pre launch 😅
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    palabanapalabana Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited July 10
    Knowing Steven, if Sanctus is to be a playable area in the future, he's never going to show us any of it until that expansion itself is launched.
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    SolmyrSolmyr Member
    Sanctus has no magic, so any combat training would have to be done on the other side of the portals. Otherwise, I really like this idea.
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    ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited July 9
    Solmyr wrote: »
    Sanctus has no magic, so any combat training would have to be done on the other side of the portals. Otherwise, I really like this idea.

    Very good point!, maybe everyone would have to start with a greatsword lol
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    HalaeHalae Member
    I think that if they're going to do a Tutorial, it should be similary to Hall of the Novice, in Final Fantasy 14. It's a totally optional tutorial that gives some low-level rewards if you do it, which teaches you the basic ins-and-outs of the combat system and what your role (tank, healer, DPS) is supposed to accomplish by putting you through some simple trials to ask you to perform your role, and at the end has a big test in which you're leading a small party to victory in your role. It's the kind of thing more games could benefit from; there's a desperate need for that kind of optional on-boarding sequence.
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    VeeshanVeeshan Member
    Personally i prefer no tutorial and let me figure it out, however i grew up on that with games like Everquest so i dont think many people will share the same preference :p
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    DolyemDolyem Member
    edited July 9
    I prefer "tutorials" like classic wow. The first 5 or so levels of combat and questing teach you the basics of the game and class as you go.
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    AszkalonAszkalon Member
    edited July 9
    Chicago wrote: »
    Whats everyone's thoughts on this?

    What if, we start our journey on sanctus

    I see One Reason,
    EVEN a kinda hilarious Reason - why we should do any of that, in the Game. :mrgreen:

    Sanctus is that World which is "not" Verra and from which We come to Verra, or am i wrong ? ;)


    Imagine we would spend some short Time there - before we would step through the Portal. Meaning in long Story short -> we would have no "Essence" like in Verra.


    We would have a completely different and "TINIER" Set of Abilities, compared to on Verra. The Fighter would move much more like a normal Person. Can not leap/jump great Distances. Can not cause tiny Earth-shattering Area-of-Effect Impacts. Can not do anything with the Ground.

    Rogues can not enter into Stealth.

    Classes like Mage, Cleric and Summoner are solely physical as well and can not conjure anything magical/essence-bound for jack. (LOL)


    So in the Beginning we are just normal People. Basically medieval Farmers wielding some Tools around, playing Adventurers.

    Then, suddenly " B~OOOM!! " we are filled with Essence and our Abilities as Verra-Citizens awaken once we entered through the Portal.







    Why should anything of this be actually important ?






    Easy.
    Imagine an Area of Effect or anything else like that on Verra -> which blocks "ESSENCE". Or even Worldbosses who might have Curses and/or Abilities, that can "BLOCK" your Essence for a limited Amount of Time. Like half a Minute or so.


    Suddenly -> " POOF!! " you are that normal, basic Person again. Takes a bit Time before your Might and Power return, for whatever the Reason.


    Even if it would be a Mechanic and System that would barely EVER be active in the Game -> wouldn't it be very cool if we could experience our Characters as empowered Verra-Citizens AND as normal Base-People from Sanctum for a limited Time - as long as the Circumstances might make it possible ?



    Not only could this be a nice, tiny little Feature for a bit more Content which would be great for Mystery Content, Puzzles - and a few tiny Quest/Story-Lines,

    but it would also be an awesome, tiny Addition to the Game. "Power" is no Naturalness. The Game would show us, that the only Reason our Characters are these mighty Classes, is the Essence in the World of Verra. :smile:
    a50whcz343yn.png
    ✓ Occasional Roleplayer
    ✗ Not looking for a guild atm
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    CROW3CROW3 Member
    No tutorial. No guides. No ‘15 things i wish I knew’ videos. Just figure it out. IMO it’s the only way to own your experience.
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    TexasTexas Member
    edited July 9
    Tutorial areas feel like roadblocks that stand in your way of actually playing the game.
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    HalaeHalae Member
    That's why you make it optional, like my suggestion. A thing you can do for some low-end rewards that'll be useless in another ten levels, but gives all the players who do it a baseline level of competence. It's better for onboarding people, which is extremely important for the health of an MMO.
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    VaknarVaknar Moderator, Member, Staff
    Chicago wrote: »
    Solmyr wrote: »
    Sanctus has no magic, so any combat training would have to be done on the other side of the portals. Otherwise, I really like this idea.

    Very good point!, maybe everyone would have to start with a greatsword lol

    Lore implications make the suggestion an interesting one to discuss, not to mention tutorial/starting areas being somewhat contentious!

    What are some immersive starting experiences that you felt helped you not only get into the game, but helped you learn the basics too?

    Alternatively, if you don't at all want something like this, why? Have you experienced something else you liked more?
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    HalaeHalae Member
    So, based on the "lore problem" of Sanctus having no magic at all... We know that each of the Divine Gates is going to have a little starting zone around it, the place where new characters spawn into Verra by coming in through from Sanctus. With that in mind, it's not unreasonable to imagine some people (NPCs in this case) hanging around the gates to offer a brief overview of the realm they've found themselves in, and help them get their bearings. That'd be an excellent diegetic position to put a brief tutorial in. You get to familiarize yourself with the magic you've now obtained and all that.

    And if you don't want to do the tutorial, you don't have to. Run by those NPCs, ignore them, go do something else. Verra's built for us to wander off and find something to do if we want to, after all.

    This'd make it optional, diegetic, sensible for onboarding players both in character and out of character, and provide a nice narrative touch for explaining why and how new entrants to Verra are being supported.
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    arkileoarkileo Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    As long as the tutorial isn't the super hand-holdy type that explains "Press W to move forward! Press 1 to use ability!" Those are just tiresome, like this isn't my first videogame, just let me play it.

    I'm most interested in a Sanctus tutorial as a story prologue, to explain why we're going to Verra, what are the stakes, what's extraordinary about it. Actually walking through the portal would be super cool, rather than just getting plopped down with no idea where you came from.

    Rift actually did this pretty well I think. From what I recall, it explained the way classes work and had you do some basic quests, but the overall theme of the tutorial area was that it took place in the future, during what was essentially the apocalypse. It was the consequence of you not succeeding, and at the end of it you were sent back in time to the present. It clearly laid out the stakes, and while Rift didn't have the most interesting story I thought it was a great way to make the player invested. Plus the class system did deserve an explanation, as it was quite different from other games.
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    AszkalonAszkalon Member
    CROW3 wrote: »
    No tutorial. No guides. No ‘15 things i wish I knew’ videos. Just figure it out. IMO it’s the only way to own your experience.

    A State where the own Character is somewhat to fully "depowered"/powered down from the Essence however, would be very cool.

    This could give Rise to a completely new Type of Enemy, even. ;)
    a50whcz343yn.png
    ✓ Occasional Roleplayer
    ✗ Not looking for a guild atm
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    ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Aszkalon wrote: »
    CROW3 wrote: »
    No tutorial. No guides. No ‘15 things i wish I knew’ videos. Just figure it out. IMO it’s the only way to own your experience.

    A State where the own Character is somewhat to fully "depowered"/powered down from the Essence however, would be very cool.

    This could give Rise to a completely new Type of Enemy, even. ;)

    Like a rabbit or a bird lol
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    ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Vaknar wrote: »
    Chicago wrote: »
    Solmyr wrote: »
    Sanctus has no magic, so any combat training would have to be done on the other side of the portals. Otherwise, I really like this idea.

    Very good point!, maybe everyone would have to start with a greatsword lol

    Lore implications make the suggestion an interesting one to discuss, not to mention tutorial/starting areas being somewhat contentious!

    What are some immersive starting experiences that you felt helped you not only get into the game, but helped you learn the basics too?

    Alternatively, if you don't at all want something like this, why? Have you experienced something else you liked more?

    My favourite starting area was from the game " anarchy online" you made a character on a space ship and then crash landed onto a beach, you were pretty much left to work out what to do your self with a few introduction quests for basic gear and weapons

    The new world one was decent, I liked the little story arc system it had but not super memorable,

    For me it's more about making the start of your adventure memorable than really testing out all the systems, it's definitely not needed in 2024 but adds flavour.

    One thing it might do though is spread the player base on launch, if people can choose to leave the starting area whenever they want it might make mob spawns less contested through the portal.
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    VeeshanVeeshan Member
    edited July 10
    Halae wrote: »
    So, based on the "lore problem" of Sanctus having no magic at all... We know that each of the Divine Gates is going to have a little starting zone around it, the place where new characters spawn into Verra by coming in through from Sanctus. With that in mind, it's not unreasonable to imagine some people (NPCs in this case) hanging around the gates to offer a brief overview of the realm they've found themselves in, and help them get their bearings. That'd be an excellent diegetic position to put a brief tutorial in. You get to familiarize yourself with the magic you've now obtained and all that.

    And if you don't want to do the tutorial, you don't have to. Run by those NPCs, ignore them, go do something else. Verra's built for us to wander off and find something to do if we want to, after all.

    This'd make it optional, diegetic, sensible for onboarding players both in character and out of character, and provide a nice narrative touch for explaining why and how new entrants to Verra are being supported.

    in regard of sanctus having no magic you could argue that the portals themself mana from verra is leaking through the portal so the vacinity close to portals does offer some magic capability but yeah if they realy wanted to they could spin in as an option for a tutorial area, It would also play well with people only havinbg access to weak spells at the start too since the mana around the portal would be very limited on what they can do with it.
    Like a mage in sanctus would in theory only be able to learn theory of magic since with no magic they couldnt cast spell so it makes the whole magic classes kinda a weird spot being able to cast spell without issues the moment they go through the portal, Having portal leak mana through would allow for mages to practice i would think,

    Either way it a dev option they make the lore and ultimately decide but i think it is entirely possible to have the tutorial in Sanctus and it end when u go through a portal where u can select ur starting gate. and it just lets you go from there for you to explore/discover the world of verra


    My preference tbh is no tutorial but thats not gonna fly this day and age :P
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    palabanapalabana Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I'm not opposed to the idea of a tutorial. However, if we do have some form of tutorial, the movement and combat basics should be done during the first few quests, in a subtle way.

    The others can be done as a side quest where players have to discover them first and completely optional, so new players can be introduced to all available gameplay features.
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    ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Veeshan wrote: »
    Halae wrote: »
    So, based on the "lore problem" of Sanctus having no magic at all... We know that each of the Divine Gates is going to have a little starting zone around it, the place where new characters spawn into Verra by coming in through from Sanctus. With that in mind, it's not unreasonable to imagine some people (NPCs in this case) hanging around the gates to offer a brief overview of the realm they've found themselves in, and help them get their bearings. That'd be an excellent diegetic position to put a brief tutorial in. You get to familiarize yourself with the magic you've now obtained and all that.

    And if you don't want to do the tutorial, you don't have to. Run by those NPCs, ignore them, go do something else. Verra's built for us to wander off and find something to do if we want to, after all.

    This'd make it optional, diegetic, sensible for onboarding players both in character and out of character, and provide a nice narrative touch for explaining why and how new entrants to Verra are being supported.

    in regard of sanctus having no magic you could argue that the portals themself mana from verra is leaking through the portal so the vacinity close to portals does offer some magic capability but yeah if they realy wanted to they could spin in as an option for a tutorial area, It would also play well with people only havinbg access to weak spells at the start too since the mana around the portal would be very limited on what they can do with it.
    Like a mage in sanctus would in theory only be able to learn theory of magic since with no magic they couldnt cast spell so it makes the whole magic classes kinda a weird spot being able to cast spell without issues the moment they go through the portal, Having portal leak mana through would allow for mages to practice i would think,

    Either way it a dev option they make the lore and ultimately decide but i think it is entirely possible to have the tutorial in Sanctus and it end when u go through a portal where u can select ur starting gate. and it just lets you go from there for you to explore/discover the world of verra


    My preference tbh is no tutorial but thats not gonna fly this day and age :P

    Great idea about the mana flooding through
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    ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    palabana wrote: »
    I'm not opposed to the idea of a tutorial. However, if we do have some form of tutorial, the movement and combat basics should be done during the first few quests, in a subtle way.

    The others can be done as a side quest where players have to discover them first and completely optional, so new players can be introduced to all available gameplay features.

    Definitely, and I'm sure in this day and age we can create a tutorial without it feeling like one
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    FaimithFaimith Member
    Vaknar wrote: »
    Chicago wrote: »
    Solmyr wrote: »
    Sanctus has no magic, so any combat training would have to be done on the other side of the portals. Otherwise, I really like this idea.

    Very good point!, maybe everyone would have to start with a greatsword lol

    Lore implications make the suggestion an interesting one to discuss, not to mention tutorial/starting areas being somewhat contentious!

    What are some immersive starting experiences that you felt helped you not only get into the game, but helped you learn the basics too?

    Alternatively, if you don't at all want something like this, why? Have you experienced something else you liked more?

    I love the start in Baldur's Gate 3 where you're introduced with a cutscene — it really sets the stage! It would be interesting to add a tutorial scroll to your inventory that you can read if needed, or an NPC who offers to guide you and explain Verra's mechanics. Additionally, having some mobs in the starting area that see you as a threat because you're new to the environment could add an immersive challenge. A starting area in Sanctus with a cutscene introducing the lore, followed by another cutscene when entering Verra, would be fantastic.
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    ShabooeyShabooey Member
    Just echoing what others have said. I would much prefer the tutorial to set the scene, give some lore and information as to why are we going to Verra and our journey through the portal, would be happy with a big cinematic for this.

    Then when we arrive in Verra you have a chat with ones already there who help you get started and acquainted with your new found magic, again, like others have said, make it a subtle tutorial through some quests or exploration not really hand holdy.

    It would be very cool that in your races starting area (if you're that race as well) they give you some race specific lore about what your race are doing/have done and the challenges they fave etc.
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    NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    To me, the most important thing about a tutorial or introduction - whether in game or a cimematic - is that it is able to be skipped completely.
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    ShabooeyShabooey Member
    edited July 10
    Yes you make a good point, I'll happily watch it the first time but for those making alts or for those who just aren't that bothered, make it so we have the option to skip.
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    NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Somewhere at some point I have argued for a Sanctus based tutorial area as well, so I am all for it. It should be skippable, so all you really have to do after character creation is to walk up to one of the 4 portals that takes you to Verra, while waving goodbye to Sanctus.
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    FaimithFaimith Member
    Nerror wrote: »
    Somewhere at some point I have argued for a Sanctus based tutorial area as well, so I am all for it. It should be skippable, so all you really have to do after character creation is to walk up to one of the 4 portals that takes you to Verra, while waving goodbye to Sanctus.

    I think it would be a great idea to have an option during character creation to toggle and directly start in Verra for twinks. This way, you can skip the rest, including cutscenes, if you prefer to dive right into the action. It would cater to both players: those who want the full experience, even with a twink, and veterans who want to get straight into the game.
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    TexasTexas Member
    I'd much rather have the area around the portals introduce basic gameplay and systems. Prologues just remind you that you aren't playing the actual game yet and it's hard to know if you want to skip it until you are done.

    It's much easier to just have NPCs or a commission board with quests that give you introductions to the basic systems. Players are free to run off or return as they want.
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    DolyemDolyem Member
    Another big reason I wouldnt do some big separated prologue tutorial is because personally, if I join a game that I am new to and cant immediately interact with my friends and have the option of them showing me the ropes as opposed to being subjected to a tutorial without a choice, that is annoying as hell.
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