I understand not everyone is happy with the pricing for the add ons, or the complications with the website and store. This is obviously a work in progress and I am watching the threads and discord to take in all the feedback that is being offered. The prices for the add ons are directly taken from the pricing in the KS/summer packages themselves, and the 20% discount on these limited and exclusive items is given only to KS backers. The add on prices had to be fair to both summer backers and KS backers. Meaning summer backers buying a 1k package, shouldnt see a $25 KS backer being able to buy all of their exclusives for $50. So that is why I decided to keep the add on values of these items equal to their values in their respective packages. The summer campaign ends in 6 days, and I will keep the add ons available until I can finish the concepts for each item, and then will announce a date the add ons will be removed, giving everyone from KS enough time to decide whether to purchase them. Please do not hesitate to continue giving feedback, good or bad, I value your thoughts.
I understand not everyone is happy with the pricing for the add ons, or the complications with the website and store. This is obviously a work in progress and I am watching the threads and discord to take in all the feedback that is being offered. The prices for the add ons are directly taken from the pricing in the KS/summer packages themselves, and the 20% discount on these limited and exclusive items is given only to KS backers. The add on prices had to be fair to both summer backers and KS backers. Meaning summer backers buying a 1k package, shouldnt see a $25 KS backer being able to buy all of their exclusives for $50. So that is why I decided to keep the add on values of these items equal to their values in their respective packages. The summer campaign ends in 6 days, and I will keep the add ons available until I can finish the concepts for each item, and then will announce a date the add ons will be removed, giving everyone from KS enough time to decide whether to purchase them. Please do not hesitate to continue giving feedback, good or bad, I value your thoughts.
I'm still of the opinion that the root of this problem was the decision to offer summer backers, all 1172 of them at time of writing, unique cosmetics instead of just extending the kickstarter with the same rewards. It created an unnecessary potential for conflict.
As someone pointed out earlier the summer rewards are likely going be
more rare in game than many of the kickstarter ones with how this whole
situation has ended up playing out. There are well over a 1000 people with KS Royalty skin while there's going to be a most a couple hundred + KS backers who cough up more money for the Summer Majesty reskin. It seems plausible that summer items will be much more rare, and thus more exclusive, than KS items and that will matter to some people.
I am curious though, if you value all of the itemized cosmetic items at $500 combined. What is the itemized value of the lifetime sub in the $500/550 pack?
The reason the all inclusive add on is that high is because of the 1k package exclusives. The guild hall, guild cosmetics and the racial skins
@GMSteven, will cosmetic store items be similar in price to the crowdfunding addons? Say for example will skins in general be around $75 in the cosmetic store?
I understand not everyone is happy with the pricing for the add ons, or the complications with the website and store. This is obviously a work in progress and I am watching the threads and discord to take in all the feedback that is being offered. The prices for the add ons are directly taken from the pricing in the KS/summer packages themselves, and the 20% discount on these limited and exclusive items is given only to KS backers. The add on prices had to be fair to both summer backers and KS backers. Meaning summer backers buying a 1k package, shouldnt see a $25 KS backer being able to buy all of their exclusives for $50. So that is why I decided to keep the add on values of these items equal to their values in their respective packages. The summer campaign ends in 6 days, and I will keep the add ons available until I can finish the concepts for each item, and then will announce a date the add ons will be removed, giving everyone from KS enough time to decide whether to purchase them. Please do not hesitate to continue giving feedback, good or bad, I value your thoughts.
There is a middle ground to this... Allow the kickstarter backers to buy up to their equal package at a large discount. Anything above that is at the costs you already thought of in fear of lower packages buying higher rewards. So if someone bought the $500 package in kickstarter then all the skins of that tier and below would be cheaper but if they wanted the elemental skins from $1000 for example then they'd have to pay in full.
To add to this as far as I can see only the bundle is discounted 20% as well, not the individual items.
@GMSteven one thing I have not seen anything on yet is referral funds. Will I be able to use any of my referral funds for the summer sale? The other question is are the referrals fixed? I have a couple that have not completed. Well at least they said they purchased. Anyway I do have funds but I am not sure when I will be able to use them.
I'm unhappy that you said things would be "Very reasonably priced" and then try to sell me $35 recolors of a skin for items that don't even have concept art (I say try, because currently I'm unable purchase anything - The /dashboard shop is still broken for me).
The add on prices had to be fair to both summer backers and KS backers.
I think that everyone will agree with this statement - But you knew this going into the Summer Sale.
Why wait until the store launched? Why tell us that things are "very reasonably" priced, when they clearly weren't going to be?
Where are these ~45,000 (70%) people?
Maybe you missed this on the last page. I don't know, but I'm going to repost it in the hopes that you read it.
Here's my largest problem: All we really have with AOC right now is
your word and our faith. I don't care what you price your things at.
Charge $100 for a costume, whatever. But don't lie to me.
A
lot of us have been burned by the MMO industry and are putting our
faith in you to do what you said you were going to do - Deliver a solid
S2P MMO with no P2W, in my case.
When you wordsmith, when you
come back behind yourself and behave in ways that seem duplicitous (I'm
speaking right now to the "Reasonably Priced" $450 add-on), then it
makes it hard for me to believe the other, more exciting things that
you're saying.
I still have hope, I'm still super hyped to see
what's going to come of this, but please remember that you've got a lot
of fans here that really believe in what you're doing - Please don't
betray the faith that we're placing in you.
When I had first read about being able to add the summer exclusives, I wasn't expecting to be able to buy anything from a higher tier, or even single items. I thought I would be able to also get the summer package at the level I have (braver), for maybe another $100 or so. I bought my KS package mostly for the Dawnbreaker, and was looking forward to getting the Pridestalker once it was revealed (if you can call it revealed without knowing anything about it yet).
But instead, they are all purchasable as individual items. To me, this creates an issue. If I was a Summer backer and paid $1000 for some elemental skins, that a $25 KS backer could get for $75, I would be upset. To sell the items to any tier, devalues the package as a whole. Just turned those $1000 skins into $100 ones. Summer backers are getting shafted.
Originally I was worried about Summer items being priced too high to add, because with the low amount of backers, it would make them more rare than the KS items. But now that you can buy individual items, they all just seem meh. Pridestalker is only $50, plus the $25 minimum from KS, nowhere near the $500+ needed for the Dawnbreaker. So KS rarity is still solid. Value maybe not so much anymore.
Anyway, I think the add-ons should have been at the level you had from the KS and below (as to not screw the value of the higher end Summer packs - whoops too late). $75 for the Elemental skins IS reasonable, and fair to Summer backers, if it was only other Leaders of Men that could get it.
I paid for what I got on KS, and I'm still getting all those, and nobody else can. I probably won't get the Pridestalker anymore, because any lowly Explorer can get it now. Might get the racial skins, because I would have paid the $1000 to get the angel/demon if I had it at the time during KS... $75 is much more do-able. I'll have to wait until the end of the month to get paid though, so we'll see if they are still purchasable.
Once the Summer backing is over though, I think I'll ignore everything about this game until Beta. Too much drama that I don't really care about, but enough to make me salty.
PS - Can we make "very reasonable priced" an in game meme please? Like if I was gonna sell, let's say... a re-skinned phoenix for $25?
I would just like to add that this topic was created not for the purpose to create any "drama", but constructive feedback to Intrepid Studios. I am glad to see that people express their opinions about the pricing, and also that Intrepid Studios are watching this feedback. All I would like to ask is to keep the conversation flowing in a respectful manner. Thanks all
Personally, as I had posted in the discord (This is Yato) I find it a little disheartening that the prices are made to match for the add-ons, simply because I would like to get the reskins, but in terms of the novelty of both the summer exclusive and the kickstarter, due to the lack of summer backers, the summer backers will be rare-er due to that there's not as many as there were kickstarter backers. And I wouldn't say that having the availability to everything there was what was wanted, I figured as you had said before Steven, that there would be the option to purchase for your package and below. I can understand the reasoning behind the prices, it's simply just disheartening as I had wanted to purchase the add-ons but can't due to the prices, as I've already kinda stretched myself with upgrading my package.
Those .99s everywhere are annoying as hell. It means sellers view people as morons that only look at the first number of a price tag. Well, perhaps many people are, but I would hope that those will not be playing AoC, at least not in great numbers.
Nicely rounded up prices are much nicer to see.
Something that Intrepid has already done. So I thank them for that.
It doesn't really make that much of a difference if you're not a complete moron. When you purchase multiple items it will still take you a screen where you can view the total cost of the purchases before accepting. If you bought a $1.99, $2.99 and $4.99 item it would still show you the total cost of $9.97 (which for any reasonable person is essentially $10). It must also be noted that Dota 2's store is devoid of any pay-to-win elements unlike some other MOBAs. Furthermore, there's a Steam Community Marketplace where players can buy 2nd hand items for less. Not sure what you're thanking IS for lol.
So.... IMO I would want small transactions of items, such as 0.99 1.99 2.99 etc. This would create more of an incentive for purchasing lots of cosmetics. I look at it like Dota 2's treasure system, in that the devs sell the original (sometimes for only a limited time) and the community creates an economy around the item in-game. *side-note* I would love to see community created and approved content!!
I'd love to hear your comments on this sort of mirco-transaction system.
I must confess I'm not familiar with DOTA 2's system, but doesn't that mean players are able to convert their $$$ into in game currency?
If so, that's a big no no as far as I'm concerned & could definitely be classified as P2W.
No because Dota 2 does not have an in-game currency like most other ARTS/MOBAs. There is no IP like there is in League of Legends, there's only real money to be dealt with and it's displayed in your local currency or $US by default.
The reason the all inclusive add on is that high is because of the 1k package exclusives. The guild hall, guild cosmetics and the racial skins
Would you consider making a cheaper bundle without the 1K stuff? Like a Braver of Worlds cosmetic bundle. So those that just want the braver and lower package cosmetics can get them without having you pay a lot extra for guild cosmetics.
The reason the all inclusive add on is that high is because of the 1k package exclusives. The guild hall, guild cosmetics and the racial skins
Would you consider making a cheaper bundle without the 1K stuff? Like a Braver of Worlds cosmetic bundle. So those that just want the braver and lower package cosmetics can get them without having you pay a lot extra for guild cosmetics.
The reason the all inclusive add on is that high is because of the 1k package exclusives. The guild hall, guild cosmetics and the racial skins
Would you consider making a cheaper bundle without the 1K stuff? Like a Braver of Worlds cosmetic bundle. So those that just want the braver and lower package cosmetics can get them without having you pay a lot extra for guild cosmetics.
Hmm just working with the numbers available to us that would reduce the cost of a full non-guild cosmetics package to $325 before any discount was applied + $75 for racial skins.
The reason the all inclusive add on is that high is because of the 1k package exclusives. The guild hall, guild cosmetics and the racial skins
Would you consider making a cheaper bundle without the 1K stuff? Like a Braver of Worlds cosmetic bundle. So those that just want the braver and lower package cosmetics can get them without having you pay a lot extra for guild cosmetics.
I'm just sitting here shaking my head. Let me say this once because I know a lot of people will feel the same way as me. Please for the love of god, put as much cosmetic items on the shop, raise the prices, please!! Guys, the revenue they get will help support the development of the game. People out there will pay hundreds of dollars for skins, I am all for it! This has ZERO impact on gameplay other than looking good. I wish more gaming companies went this route...also keep in mind...most of these cosmetic skins can be obtained through playing in game!
Remember, Intrepid promises big game content patches every 3-4 months...to me this is insane and gets me very excited...if it means they need this extra revenue then so be it! Put mount skins and freehold skins for hundreds of dollars...people will buy it and I am happy about it!
The reason some of these prices are high is because people will pay it. There is a demographic of gamers that want to stand out and show off and look good and feel proud. These gamers will not hesitate to spend 100, 200, 300$ on skins to achieve this. There is nothing wrong with this, always remember that the more revenue Intrepid gets the more content they can put out!
When I had first read about being able to add the summer exclusives, I wasn't expecting to be able to buy anything from a higher tier, or even single items. I thought I would be able to also get the summer package at the level I have (braver), for maybe another $100 or so. I bought my KS package mostly for the Dawnbreaker, and was looking forward to getting the Pridestalker once it was revealed (if you can call it revealed without knowing anything about it yet).
But instead, they are all purchasable as individual items. To me, this creates an issue. If I was a Summer backer and paid $1000 for some elemental skins, that a $25 KS backer could get for $75, I would be upset. To sell the items to any tier, devalues the package as a whole. Just turned those $1000 skins into $100 ones. Summer backers are getting shafted.
Originally I was worried about Summer items being priced too high to add, because with the low amount of backers, it would make them more rare than the KS items. But now that you can buy individual items, they all just seem meh. Pridestalker is only $50, plus the $25 minimum from KS, nowhere near the $500+ needed for the Dawnbreaker. So KS rarity is still solid. Value maybe not so much anymore.
Anyway, I think the add-ons should have been at the level you had from the KS and below (as to not screw the value of the higher end Summer packs - whoops too late). $75 for the Elemental skins IS reasonable, and fair to Summer backers, if it was only other Leaders of Men that could get it.
I paid for what I got on KS, and I'm still getting all those, and nobody else can. I probably won't get the Pridestalker anymore, because any lowly Explorer can get it now. Might get the racial skins, because I would have paid the $1000 to get the angel/demon if I had it at the time during KS... $75 is much more do-able. I'll have to wait until the end of the month to get paid though, so we'll see if they are still purchasable.
Once the Summer backing is over though, I think I'll ignore everything about this game until Beta. Too much drama that I don't really care about, but enough to make me salty.
PS - Can we make "very reasonable priced" an in game meme please? Like if I was gonna sell, let's say... a re-skinned phoenix for $25?
I like this guy and agree. Pretty much exactly what i was thinking.
Some of the prices don't sit well with me but others are alright, really wish I could get the Angel/Demon skins even if it is for $75 considering the fact that you'd need to pay $1000 on KS to get it.
This thread is so amusing. I remember some of these people who cried about the word play regarding kickstarter.
You're holding onto a statement Steven made as a possibility and was never actually announced as happening. I was in discord when he announced it and he never said it was a definite thing. No wonder why companies try to limit the communication with the community, it is because of shit like this. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I would've loved to have gotten the summer bundle for free, but we aren't. It is not like Steven actually said, yes you guys are getting the summer items too. These are cosmetic items and you don't NEED to buy them. If you cannot afford them or cannot justify buying them, then don't buy them. I find the items to be very reasonable as they are trying top balance the prices based on the tiers in which some of the items are found. EX: the elemental skins are found in the 1k backers packages and include 2 skins....70.00 for 2 skins found in a pledge that costs 1000....
I'm just sitting here shaking my head. Let me say this once because I know a lot of people will feel the same way as me. Please for the love of god, put as much cosmetic items on the shop, raise the prices, please!! Guys, the revenue they get will help support the development of the game. People out there will pay hundreds of dollars for skins, I am all for it! This has ZERO impact on gameplay other than looking good. I wish more gaming companies went this route...also keep in mind...most of these cosmetic skins can be obtained through playing in game!
Remember, Intrepid promises big game content patches every 3-4 months...to me this is insane and gets me very excited...if it means they need this extra revenue then so be it! Put mount skins and freehold skins for hundreds of dollars...people will buy it and I am happy about it!
If 1 person will buy a skin for $100. If 20 people will buy a skin for $10. If the cost to Intrepid Studios is the same regardless.
I'm just sitting here shaking my head. Let me say this once because I know a lot of people will feel the same way as me. Please for the love of god, put as much cosmetic items on the shop, raise the prices, please!! Guys, the revenue they get will help support the development of the game. People out there will pay hundreds of dollars for skins, I am all for it! This has ZERO impact on gameplay other than looking good. I wish more gaming companies went this route...also keep in mind...most of these cosmetic skins can be obtained through playing in game!
Remember, Intrepid promises big game content patches every 3-4 months...to me this is insane and gets me very excited...if it means they need this extra revenue then so be it! Put mount skins and freehold skins for hundreds of dollars...people will buy it and I am happy about it!
If 1 person will buy a skin for $100. If 20 people will buy a skin for $10. If the cost to Intrepid Studios is the same regardless.
Guess which one would support the game more.
Half the price and 20 people buy the item instead of 5.
Comments
As someone pointed out earlier the summer rewards are likely going be more rare in game than many of the kickstarter ones with how this whole situation has ended up playing out. There are well over a 1000 people with KS Royalty skin while there's going to be a most a couple hundred + KS backers who cough up more money for the Summer Majesty reskin. It seems plausible that summer items will be much more rare, and thus more exclusive, than KS items and that will matter to some people.
I am curious though, if you value all of the itemized cosmetic items at $500 combined. What is the itemized value of the lifetime sub in the $500/550 pack?
The reason the all inclusive add on is that high is because of the 1k package exclusives. The guild hall, guild cosmetics and the racial skins
To add to this as far as I can see only the bundle is discounted 20% as well, not the individual items.
I would expect the cosmetic store to include a range similar to the pricing for the Summer mounts.
I'm unhappy that you said things would be "Very reasonably priced" and then try to sell me $35 recolors of a skin for items that don't even have concept art (I say try, because currently I'm unable purchase anything - The /dashboard shop is still broken for me).
I think that everyone will agree with this statement - But you knew this going into the Summer Sale.
Why wait until the store launched?
Why tell us that things are "very reasonably" priced, when they clearly weren't going to be?
Where are these ~45,000 (70%) people?
Maybe you missed this on the last page. I don't know, but I'm going to repost it in the hopes that you read it.
Here's my largest problem:
All we really have with AOC right now is your word and our faith. I don't care what you price your things at. Charge $100 for a costume, whatever. But don't lie to me.
A lot of us have been burned by the MMO industry and are putting our faith in you to do what you said you were going to do - Deliver a solid S2P MMO with no P2W, in my case.
When you wordsmith, when you come back behind yourself and behave in ways that seem duplicitous (I'm speaking right now to the "Reasonably Priced" $450 add-on), then it makes it hard for me to believe the other, more exciting things that you're saying.
I still have hope, I'm still super hyped to see what's going to come of this, but please remember that you've got a lot of fans here that really believe in what you're doing - Please don't betray the faith that we're placing in you.
But instead, they are all purchasable as individual items. To me, this creates an issue. If I was a Summer backer and paid $1000 for some elemental skins, that a $25 KS backer could get for $75, I would be upset. To sell the items to any tier, devalues the package as a whole. Just turned those $1000 skins into $100 ones. Summer backers are getting shafted.
Originally I was worried about Summer items being priced too high to add, because with the low amount of backers, it would make them more rare than the KS items. But now that you can buy individual items, they all just seem meh. Pridestalker is only $50, plus the $25 minimum from KS, nowhere near the $500+ needed for the Dawnbreaker. So KS rarity is still solid. Value maybe not so much anymore.
Anyway, I think the add-ons should have been at the level you had from the KS and below (as to not screw the value of the higher end Summer packs - whoops too late). $75 for the Elemental skins IS reasonable, and fair to Summer backers, if it was only other Leaders of Men that could get it.
I paid for what I got on KS, and I'm still getting all those, and nobody else can. I probably won't get the Pridestalker anymore, because any lowly Explorer can get it now. Might get the racial skins, because I would have paid the $1000 to get the angel/demon if I had it at the time during KS... $75 is much more do-able. I'll have to wait until the end of the month to get paid though, so we'll see if they are still purchasable.
Once the Summer backing is over though, I think I'll ignore everything about this game until Beta. Too much drama that I don't really care about, but enough to make me salty.
PS - Can we make "very reasonable priced" an in game meme please? Like if I was gonna sell, let's say... a re-skinned phoenix for $25?
There's a forum post up that has all the stuff he's said so far, it's at
/discussion/34415/crowdfunding-q-a-gmsteven#latest
Apparently the forums eat my post if I put the full URL, so just tag that onto the URL that's up top, after the .com.
Or better yet, what @Speedlimate or @Shuzuk said.
Not a bad idea. Will let you know tomorrow.
Sounding more reasonable already.
Remember, Intrepid promises big game content patches every 3-4 months...to me this is insane and gets me very excited...if it means they need this extra revenue then so be it! Put mount skins and freehold skins for hundreds of dollars...people will buy it and I am happy about it!
Pretty much exactly what i was thinking.
You're holding onto a statement Steven made as a possibility and was never actually announced as happening. I was in discord when he announced it and he never said it was a definite thing. No wonder why companies try to limit the communication with the community, it is because of shit like this. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I would've loved to have gotten the summer bundle for free, but we aren't. It is not like Steven actually said, yes you guys are getting the summer items too.
These are cosmetic items and you don't NEED to buy them. If you cannot afford them or cannot justify buying them, then don't buy them. I find the items to be very reasonable as they are trying top balance the prices based on the tiers in which some of the items are found. EX: the elemental skins are found in the 1k backers packages and include 2 skins....70.00 for 2 skins found in a pledge that costs 1000....
If 20 people will buy a skin for $10.
If the cost to Intrepid Studios is the same regardless.
Guess which one would support the game more.
So, tomorrow.. huh?