Skill Proficieny / Passive Skills

Hello again everyone, its me Damokles again!
Here is another idea:
Weapon/Skill proficiency and obtainable passive skills, yes or no?

If you dont know what i mean with that:
Weapon/Skill Proficiency is that your skills and weapon abilities would get stronger with continued use.
Example:
Someone uses ice spells most of the time and they get stronger after a certain amount of killed enemies.

Passive Skills here are skills that are obtained after you use a specific type of weapon or skill long enough.
Example:
Someone only uses a one-handed weapon and Shield, and after 5 levels of only using that he obtaines a passive skill that increases his Damage absorption from the shield by x amount and raises his attack with one handed weapon by x.
Someone uses fire spells for a long time and then recieves a passive skill that increases the duration of burn effects on his targets or flat out increases fire damage.

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Comments

Karthos

I played an old MMO called Ferentus in like 2005 that had a lot of cool systems, one of which was basically what you're talking about. Skills would level based on how much you used them.

My college roommate at the time and I would park our characters somewhere, pop the keys out of our keyboard and jam a pencil into the hole to essentially make a poor man's macro to cast the same spell over and over. Then we went to bed.

Damokles

@karthos
In this case, i meant that you would have to actually fight against enemies in or above your level^^

Azryil

I think weapon skills are a bit of a double edged sword. They add more depth to character development, but at the same time they tend to be a boring grindy mess. I remember when wow had weapon skills, some new shiny 2h axe dropped but you hadn't ever leveled your 2h axe skill so you had to go to blasted lands and grind for hours on mobs that never die just to make the weapon viable, or you would get passed up on what would otherwise be a huge upgrade to someone that already had that weapon skill, but gained less benefit from the upgrade.

amuria

Depending on how they plan to implement the swapping of secondary classes this might render the system worse than intended.

If it would be a full swap and experience carries over (warrior/warrior->warrior/mage acquires similar level & proficiency) then proficiency is just a feel-good mechanic for your leveling experience. If it does not carry over, you could argue that you could just make an alt instead of swapping secondaries.

I would not bind it to the character level progress like your first example did. You could lock yourself out because you simply can’t level up higher. Also, the difference of time required between a low-level character and high-level character would be very large since it takes different amounts to level up from 30 to 35 and 1 to 5. I think WOW has a similar system where proficiency is tracked by a separate progression bar which is also what I would recommend.

Overall this can be nice to give the players a more challenging experience before they unlock passives and are able to face even harder enemies. But they also are a very non interactive mechanic since you can’t really make a choice in them.

grisu

Isn't that the whole horizontal progression thing?
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Progression
subcategory gear and classes.
Augements weapon mastery passive skills.

Damokles

@arzosah
You mean that you didnt keep up all your weaponskills while you leveled?
I played a rogue and always kept up all my weaponskills while leveling (trust me that was a damn timesink), and that saved me from the winterspring grind

Damokles

And yes i even leveled unarmed and thrown!

Wandering Mist

Weapon skill proficiency is one of those things that sounds good in theory, but in practice is just a headache. When you get a new weapon that is stronger than your current weapon, you want to use it right? But if you don't have a high enough skill in your new weapon, you will not be able to use it.

There is such a thing as "too much RP" and I feel weapon skill proficiency falls into that category.

Varkun

Are there not resistances to certain types of weapons some mobs will be resistant to slashing others might take more damage from blunt and crushing right tool for the job. Seems many look on this as a grind to level different types of weapons I tend to view it as progressing my character's story. But that's just my opinion.

StreetCornerPoet

varkun wrote: »

Are there not resistances to certain types of weapons some mobs will be resistant to slashing others might take more damage from blunt and crushing right tool for the job. Seems many look on this as a grind to level different types of weapons I tend to view it as progressing my character's story. But that's just my opinion.

The only thing I dislike about grinding weapon skills is it doesn't take prior knowledge and experience into account with regards to posture, stance, etc. Weapons should have a shared skill tree in some aspects that levels weapons slower so they might be a rank or two behind another group, but still level a bit whether or not you use them.

For instance lets say I start using an arming sword (what most people think a long sword is). That skill should also level short sword at the same rate, one edge swords and one handed blunt weapons should be a level or two behind experience wise and two handed weapons should be even further behind.

But everything you learn from using one weapon you can start applying to others. A long staff, bo staff, and cane all use similar principles but their ranges and lengths differ and there are differences because of this, but many attacks and parries can be used with all three. So they should all be close to the same level. A spear shares many qualities as well and many attacks can be used with a spear that can be used with a staff, so a spear should only be a level or two behind.

The fact that you have to start at 0 or 1 for each different weapon has always bothered me.

Sarevok

What if they categorized weapons not by the specific weapon but the type of weapon?

I. E. One-handed Weapons, Two-handed weapons, Bows, Magic ranged, Shields and even down to the types of armor. The rewards would be small little boosts to either damage, crit, range, accuracy, or eventually something completely different to give players something to strive for. For instance maybe certain abilities are unlocked at certain skill plateaus based on level for specific weapon types.

I do really hope they give us a carrot on the stick(or multiples} for the players that want to invest the time to fully max out their character. Also, I hope certain armor is strong/neutral/weak vs certain damage types or elements. I really enjoyed that dynamic in DAoC.

Damokles

@sarevok
Instead of "Bows", rather "ranged physical" (because of crossbows and potion launchers ;D)

But yeah good idea!

Plateau

Damokles

grisu wrote: »

Isn't that the whole horizontal progression thing?
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Progression
subcategory gear and classes.
Augements weapon mastery passive skills.

What i meant were direct buffs to the skills instead of augmentation through the second class.
"Augments to primary skills will fundamentally change the way the ability works"

But i also read that we will get skill points to upgrade our skills so i will be a happy camper^^

Varkun

grimharlequin wrote: »

varkun wrote: »

Are there not resistances to certain types of weapons some mobs will be resistant to slashing others might take more damage from blunt and crushing right tool for the job. Seems many look on this as a grind to level different types of weapons I tend to view it as progressing my character's story. But that's just my opinion.

The only thing I dislike about grinding weapon skills is it doesn't take prior knowledge and experience into account with regards to posture, stance, etc. Weapons should have a shared skill tree in some aspects that levels weapons slower so they might be a rank or two behind another group, but still level a bit whether or not you use them.

For instance lets say I start using an arming sword (what most people think a long sword is). That skill should also level short sword at the same rate, one edge swords and one handed blunt weapons should be a level or two behind experience wise and two handed weapons should be even further behind.

But everything you learn from using one weapon you can start applying to others. A long staff, bo staff, and cane all use similar principles but their ranges and lengths differ and there are differences because of this, but many attacks and parries can be used with all three. So they should all be close to the same level. A spear shares many qualities as well and many attacks can be used with a spear that can be used with a staff, so a spear should only be a level or two behind.

The fact that you have to start at 0 or 1 for each different weapon has always bothered me.

I understand what you are saying and there are indeed a lot of weapons slated for ashes. What I would suggest is that weapons be grouped by type you would still gain skill in the weapon you were using but all weapons in that group you could gain like passive skill, that would allow you to level the other weapons in that group faster when you start to use them. So the other weapons from the same group would not level up as such until you started to use a different weapon but would be at a faster rate due to you being familiar with similar weapons from the same group.

Not sure if that will convey my idea on how it could work. Would sort of be like a bonus to leveling the new weapon when you start to use it if it's from the same group. Though the amount of the boost would depend on how long you used the first weapon for.

StreetCornerPoet

varkun wrote: »

grimharlequin wrote: »

varkun wrote: »

Are there not resistances to certain types of weapons some mobs will be resistant to slashing others might take more damage from blunt and crushing right tool for the job. Seems many look on this as a grind to level different types of weapons I tend to view it as progressing my character's story. But that's just my opinion.

The only thing I dislike about grinding weapon skills is it doesn't take prior knowledge and experience into account with regards to posture, stance, etc. Weapons should have a shared skill tree in some aspects that levels weapons slower so they might be a rank or two behind another group, but still level a bit whether or not you use them.

For instance lets say I start using an arming sword (what most people think a long sword is). That skill should also level short sword at the same rate, one edge swords and one handed blunt weapons should be a level or two behind experience wise and two handed weapons should be even further behind.

But everything you learn from using one weapon you can start applying to others. A long staff, bo staff, and cane all use similar principles but their ranges and lengths differ and there are differences because of this, but many attacks and parries can be used with all three. So they should all be close to the same level. A spear shares many qualities as well and many attacks can be used with a spear that can be used with a staff, so a spear should only be a level or two behind.

The fact that you have to start at 0 or 1 for each different weapon has always bothered me.

I understand what you are saying and there are indeed a lot of weapons slated for ashes. What I would suggest is that weapons be grouped by type you would still gain skill in the weapon you were using but all weapons in that group you could gain like passive skill, that would allow you to level the other weapons in that group faster when you start to use them. So the other weapons from the same group would not level up as such until you started to use a different weapon but would be at a faster rate due to you being familiar with similar weapons from the same group.

Not sure if that will convey my idea on how it could work. Would sort of be like a bonus to leveling the new weapon when you start to use it if it's from the same group. Though the amount of the boost would depend on how long you used the first weapon for.

That could also work.

Like since you have basics down that can apply to many weapons, but you don't have the exact range and balance of a specific weapon, so its still at starting level, but you level it faster because you understand more about weapon work in general for a larger range type of weapons.

Whether it is a cascading leveling system or a banked progression bonus, just give us something. Once you start training in weapon fighting those skills carry over and even when training with something very different you learn the weapon quicker because you have the skill set and basic understanding to improve your proficiency rate of another weapon.

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