Race and their Relationships

Good day to you dear Sir or Miss,

now, I know there are no pre-generated factions in Ashes of Creation, BUT I was wondering:
Will there be racism in the game?

Let me explain!

You know, how we all have been exposed to stories like Lord of the Rings, Warcraft and Warhammer lore? I think these ideas, presented in these different worlds are now embedded into our thinking and therefore, I think, there will be at least some kind of subconscious racism.
Now, this is all up to us to decide, to act upon those ideas.

So… I am curious. Will you be a racist in AoC? Will your dwarf despise elves? Will your Human hate Orcs? Or… Will your Empyrian just dislike Py'rai?
What are your ideas on this? Because, although it makes our everyday life miserable sometimes, racism and/or prejudices makes a fantasy world so much more interesting.

Yours,
DerToastinator

PS: I hope this post doesn’t get taken down for racism xD

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Comments

Damokles

Steven said that Tulnar will be racist to each other depending on their dominant race. ;D

"Ewwwww, you are one of those lizardpeople are you not? Oh well you can see that i am a dark elf, so i will allow you to serve me!"

Makinoji

yes, if AOC is to remain on their realistic path this and other prejudices will need to be in place.
I hate this subject IRL because I don't partake in any racism and in MMO my avatar is usually one to spread love and light (I'm a healer) to anyone.

T Elf

If it's not built into the game, role players will surely play with those ideas in mind when building their characters.

Azryil

Clearly everyone should be racist towards the Tulnar.

T Elf

LOL Button!!!

Damokles

arzosah wrote: »

Clearly everyone should be racist towards the Tulnar.

Oi munchies should not talk!

mcstackerson

I look forward to meeting the tulnar haters in Verra.

Karthos

This is one of my favorite aspects of Tolkien's works, is the exploration of race relations between the various peoples of Middle Earth.

georgeblack

Never cared much for the "lowlife blah blah blah..." attitude.
I much rather war and hatred between let's say d. elves and elves because of some dark magic crime.
Or friendship between humans and elves because elves taught humans magic.

Racism just because of different races is boring

Nothing against keeping it real. Just dont make it a comic relief. There has to be a reason why some races have a grudge.

Dygz

Quite a bit of racism towards the Tulnar already.
Significantly different than the bit of racial tension between Dwarves and Elves I've seen so far.

The racism in Tolkien's work is disgusting. Thankfully, D&D got rid of its systemic racism about 20 years ago, but it still lingers in games like WoW.
It's great that the Ashes devs have no systemic racism in the Ashes mechanics.

CrazySquiggle

Mine won't be race based

I will hate on all bards just to listen to people scream

Wololo

Imo having a conflict between races; making them not like eachothere by default for something that happened in the past is fine and creates a storyline to branch quests off, some roleplaying etc. But if one race is seen inferior to all others simply because of the way they look, talk, think, theyr characteristics and so on i think that would reflect to much to the disgusting racism that is still going on in this modern world and i dont see how that brings any enjoyment to a game.

Karthos

dygz wrote: »

Quite a bit of racism towards the Tulnar already.
Significantly different than the bit of racial tension between Dwarves and Elves I've seen so far.

The racism in Tolkien's work is disgusting. Thankfully, D&D got rid of its systemic racism about 20 years ago, but it still lingers in games like WoW.
It's great that the Ashes devs have no systemic racism in the Ashes mechanics.

I'm curious if you're willing to expand on your Tolkien opinion.

Dygz

https://www.publicmedievalist.com/race-fantasy-genre/

https://www.ranker.com/list/racism-in-lord-of-the-rings/melissa-brinks

Karthos

@dygz
And I asked YOU, I don't give a shit what some someone else says who ripped off a 2003 Chicago Tribune outrage-bait article about how Lord of the Rings is Anti-Islamic.

If you can't form the reason in your own words, you haven't really thought it out enough to have an opinion on the issue.

Dygz

You complain of baiting and yet accuse me of not being able to form the reason in my own words simply because I chose to provide you with links.
If you're too blind to see the blatant racism in Tolkien's works on your own but you really want to know, I guess you can do your own research. I am under no obligation to explain it to you.

Noaani

The works of Tolkien have had more academic papers written about then than any written work of the last 500 years. The two links were not among such academic papers, and should at best be considered opinion pieces written by people that don't have the credentials to offer up anything more than an opinion.

That first article specifically was as much about a writing trying sell his books as it was a serious complaint about Tolkien.

If someone were to use just those articles to form an opinion of their own, and not look at the wealth of actual well researched papers on the subject out there, I would say they are doing themselves a dis-service by not looking in to the matter fully (and anyone that looked in to the matter fully would have better papers to link than the above to support an argument that there was racism), and most likely had a pre-conceived notion of (or at least a pre-existing lean towards) seeing racism where it doesn't exist.

---

From a lore perspective, I'd like to think that the non-Tulnar races would be somewhat amicable towards each other. They have been living together for thousands of years, and are close enough that the portals to Verra are essentially race agnostic. This says to me that the races are somewhat evenly spread out on the other side of those portals, which would suggest a certain amount of racial harmony.

The Tulnar though, they are new. They are different. I'd expect to see a fairly high amount of racism towards them.

However, as a player, I'd much rather be able to hate on an individual because of the individual, rather than because of their race.

DerToastinator

@georgeblack
You are right, if there is tension because of previous events, the conflict feels more real.
It also provides the player with more information due to, why these races could be hostile or why they could have a healthy relationship.
Although i also don’t want racism based only of the exterior of a character, i doubt there will be none.
Look, people sometimes fear what they don’t understand and a lizard who speaks might be frightening for a human at first glance or an elves way to express himself could be irritating for an orc, who knows?!
We are speaking about a medieval fantasy world! People are frightened all the time, and they should be. Try to befriend a Vampire... dead. Try to befriend a succubus... sexy dead. Try to befriend a giant... flying off to space dead.
See, there is a valid reason to judge upon looks (please don’t do this IRL). It might save your live.
Now, there are definitely people who are your race and just want to kill you for your gear and orcs with the kindest of attitudes. But that doesn’t matter in the first couple of seconds. Your character just sees: "Ah, nice another human." or "OH F**K F**K F**K WHAT IS THAT?! I HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS IN MY LIVE, WHA DO I DOOO?!" The trick is to learn, all races can be d**ks and all races can be nice in their own, beautiful ways.
This could be a character ark for you to consider.
It is fun, to see your character (and ultimately yourself) grow with time. Not in level, but in heart.

Or do the exact opposite and let your character get bitter with live and/or hold a grudge against a specific or even all races... could be fun too

Furthermore @dygz and @karthos :
I, sincerely, ask you to turn it down a notch.
This is about fictional tensions between fictional races in a fictional world.

And (though i have not looked at the links) i can say one thing to your discussion.
Authors bring all sorts of things out of real live into their stories.
Its only natural, because you can’t really invent something new.
Try imagining a new colour for example. You can’t.
You just mix and mash existing things together until you get something "new".
And if an author chooses to use the concept of racism (whether you like it or not that it exists in real live)
to reinforce the tension between different parties, he has every right to do so. I would even argue, that it makes the world a bit more realistic and therefore more likely to get involved.

I´ll take a wild guess and say, you are talking about that some cave-dwellers, who are obsessed with jewellery and have long beards. Are you implying, that these fellows have a real live equivalent?
Well guess what, Tolkien didn’t invent dwarfs. They are creatures of the Germanic mythology and pedate to the 13th century.
In Tolkien’s works, they are brave fighters as i remember and in the films, they are ducking AWSOME!
Who wouldn’t want to be a dwarf?

Yours,
DerToastinator

PS: Btw @karthos it is called antisemitic, to be against Jews, not Anti-Islamic. As far as I know Jews (Semitism) and Muslims (Islam) are not exactly the best friends ether.

PPS: Can we please let real live racism out of this?

DerToastinator

noaani wrote: »

However, as a player, I'd much rather be able to hate on an individual because of the individual, rather than because of their race.

Thats my man!
Hating people because they earned it!

Dygz

noaani wrote: »

If someone were to use just those articles to form an opinion of their own, and not look at the wealth of actual well researched papers on the subject out there, I would say they are doing themselves a dis-service by not looking in to the matter fully (and anyone that looked in to the matter fully would have better papers to link than the above to support an argument that there was racism), and most likely had a pre-conceived notion of (or at least a pre-existing lean towards) seeing racism where it doesn't exist.

Just read the Tolkien books and see how they affected systemic racism in RPG design for decades.
No one has suggested using those articles to form an opinion, as far as I know.

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