Why should I siege other metropolis?

(Edit: I have added some other motivates what I find among the comments.)
The siege mechanism sounds great. Prepare for the siege, participate in a battle with hundreds of people.
But what will motives people to start a siege. The only thing I found yet is that it is fun. Actually there are other one as well, but this is not what I support: jealousy. So ruin someone's work just because they can.
Motivates:
-fun
-hatred
-steal/loot for warmongers (edited)
-individually started siege to delevel the parent note to make our node as leader (edited)
-open content (edited)
Demotivates:
-there are no factions what dedicates the enemy, in default everybody is friendly
-cost much resources
-there are enough space for everybody. The world will be about 480 km2. A metropolis size is about 0,2 km2. (0,25km radius) If a node has total ZOI is 100 times greater than itself it is still 20km2. If we calculate with the radius and we multiply it with 20. In this case it is still 78,5km2. In one server there can be only 4-5 metropolis. If we calculate with 5 we still have 80km2 what is free from the metropolises.
-you are free to relocate to another metropolis, if you need what can be find only there, you can go there or became citizen there
-in one metropolis there can be multiple guilds
-form the above, you win nothing from the siege.

At the beginning of a server, there can be rival developing nodes, close to each other, but if they are too close to each other, the automatic vassal system block you to siege your parent node. So we can talk about war regarding the nodes what are medium range from each other, but not so later everybody will see who is more powerful and they can start a new home a little farther from them and peace and prosperity. Probably after a lost siege. So we can talk about a few siege in a whole server.

What are your thoughts? What did I miss?

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Comments

Noaani

I seem to remember something about there being rewards for winning a siege, with the rewards getting greater the longer a node goes un-sieged.

However, I can't find info on it right now, so I'll only talk about the two main reasons I can see players like myself wanting to see a metropolis sieged.

The first is simple. If I set myself up in a node, and the node next to it becomes a metropolis, I may want to siege that metropolis so that my node can become one. This is obviously cyclical - should my node then become a metropolis, any nodes next to us (including the old metropolis) would want to siege us to allow them the chance to become a metropolis.

While it is possible that you may just be able to move in to a metropolis, many people would rather stick with their type of node, rather than follow the metropolis from node to node.

Further, I may have the highest level of in node housing (as opposed to freeholds) in my node, and if I leave to go to the metropolis I may have to downgrade.

ALl up, having to downgrade housing and leaving the node type I want to be in are probably not going to be worth gaining what ever you would gain by living in the metropolis - but on the other hand if you successfully siege the metropolis you then get it all.

The other major reason I may want to siege a metropolis is content. The content - including group content and raid content - will change based on the state of nodes. There may be content that I and my guild want access to that we can't get access to with the current node setup, so we will alter that setup.

Ghoosty

"If I set myself up in a node, and the node next to it becomes a metropolis, I may want to siege that metropolis so that my node can become one."

This was my first thought as a reason, but this would be impossible, because of the automatic vassal node system. The node next to the Metropolis will be vassal node automatically, and it is not possible to siege the parent node. So that reason is only valid if there are already 5 metropolis in the world and your community want another one.

"The other major reason I may want to siege a metropolis is content. The content - including group content and raid content - will change based on the state of nodes. There may be content that I and my guild want access to that we can't get access to with the current node setup, so we will alter that setup."

From one side I understand this reason, but as it will be an knowing thing? I mean there will be a 'sign' this raid is not available, because there are a metropolis? Additionally next to the metropolis there will be always lower level cities, what can open a content.
As I understand from the available information the content availability will be one way. A higher level node only opens content, not close any. So if you delevel a node it will not open anything, but if a delevel can open content it is a strong valid reason.

The housing part is something what I never understand and never find interesting, but we are different. If my view is the minority this also can motivate for a siege.

Noaani

ghoosty wrote: »

This was my first thought as a reason, but this would be impossible, because of the automatic vassal node system. The node next to the Metropolis will be vassal node automatically, and it is not possible to siege the parent node. So that reason is only valid if there are already 5 metropolis in the world and your community want another one.

Fair point.

The node next door may not be relevant in terms of siegeing directly, but the general point stands. May be your node makes an agreement with people in a node next to another metropolis and some mutual sieging of metropolises occur.

It will be interesting to see how this ends up in the final game though, I fully expect there to be a way for a city node to be able to initiate siege on a neighboring metropolis.

"The other major reason I may want to siege a metropolis is content. The content - including group content and raid content - will change based on the state of nodes. There may be content that I and my guild want access to that we can't get access to with the current node setup, so we will alter that setup."

From one side I understand this reason, but as it will be an knowing thing? I mean there will be a 'sign' this raid is not available, because there are a metropolis? Additionally next to the metropolis there will be always lower level cities, what can open a content.
As I understand from the available information the content availability will be one way. A higher level node only opens content, not close any. So if you delevel a node it will not open anything, but if a delevel can open content it is a strong valid reason.

The housing part is something what I never understand and never find interesting, but we are different. If my view is the minority this also can motivate for a siege.

We won't know to start with, but when we start comparing content server by server, knowing that we should look at the nearby nodes, it won't take long to figure out the system Intrepid are using.

Nagash

to kill everyone in the city and then raise them as a new army of the undead? or is that just me

Ghoosty

nagash wrote: »

to kill everyone in the city and then raise them as a new army of the undead? or is that just me

hmmm...
If you have an army of undead, it is a good idea, but if you siege with alive people, it is not a good idea. They can turn against you.

Actually, I vote that you should be lead an event where an ancient necromancer is raised and he will siege the city. If he won the city will be an undead land, until some brave adventurers kills the necromancer.

Amist

There's also the potential to unlock dungeons and raids when leveling up certain nodes. If a metro is blocking access to a certain dungeon, people may want to destroy it

Shoklen

nagash wrote: »

to kill everyone in the city and then raise them as a new army of the undead? or is that just me

I was going to say the ability to use monster tokens, but close enough

Ghoosty

branegames wrote: »

There's also the potential to unlock dungeons and raids when leveling up certain nodes. If a metro is blocking access to a certain dungeon, people may want to destroy it

Theoretically it is good idea. In practice it raise some question for me. We have a metropolis node. Each node loosing xp time to time. So we should work within our node ZOI to keep it in metropolis state. If we successfully sieged a node who will level up the certain node for us for the content? Will we have enough people to maintain 2 metropolis in same time?

The other thing what came to my mind. If we delevel a metropolis it will close the dungeon/raid (A) what belong to that node. We want another nearby node to be metropolis. So we level it up. We have access to dungeon (B). If a third group want to access dungeon (A) they would siege our 2nd metropolis. So this can be a continuous meaningful PvP for PvE options. I would like it.

grisu

@ghoosty A node siege is declared by an individual. Due to it's cost probably motivated by a guild, not an opposed node as you seem to think, so that's some wrong base you got there. (You probably mixed up node wars with node siege)

Also aside from rewards like looting the reliquary and plundering everything there are a ton of incentives. I don't know where your math comes from but the basic premise is that the world is divided into 5 meta regions. Per Region only one metropolis can exits. Your "there is space for everyone" doesn't really apply. Even if you are right, if there are no ressources in that "free space"(why else would it be unoccupied in the first place? talking long term after the first rush months) or anything note worthy, why would you want to settle there and lengthen your travel time to the currently relevant spots?
When your city stage node is swamped in ressources, but limited in capacity cause the metropolis is blocking the way, that's when you very well want to siege another node.

While you are "free to relocate", citizenship comes with bagage and it's own rewards to staying in it. You lose all those as well as having to earn the new citizenship and starting from scratch, which, in a metropolis will be quite a bit of a new investment as was explained several times.
Different node types and location of nodes bring different advantages, while noone can in general say it will always be a motivator to siege a node just to get access to a different metropolis type, it certainly might be the final weight nudging people into that direction.

I don't know where you got your info, but looking at your list of motivators indicates to me that your knowledgebase of what nodes do for oyu is lacking. The wiki might help you with that.

Nagash

ghoosty wrote: »

nagash wrote: »

to kill everyone in the city and then raise them as a new army of the undead? or is that just me

hmmm...
If you have an army of undead, it is a good idea, but if you siege with alive people, it is not a good idea. They can turn against you.

Actually, I vote that you should be lead an event where an ancient necromancer is raised and he will siege the city. If he won the city will be an undead land, until some brave adventurers kills the necromancer.

see I like that idea apart from the bit where the necromancer dies

Ghoosty

grisu wrote: »

"A node siege is declared by an individual. "

The title mislead you, I never said that.

"I don't know where your math comes from, but the basic premise is that the world is divided into 5 meta regions."

Everyhing what I used is comming from Steven.

"480 square kilometers; which is which is pretty large comparatively to other MMORPGs out there. Now that does not include the lapped spaces: So that is the Underrealm and the portion of the world that it encompasses, which could probably easily take up an additional hundredish square kilometers I would imagine.[7] – Steven Sharif"

To be honest, this economic- and castle region is not 100% clear for me.

" Even if you are right, if there are no ressources in that "free space"(why else would it be unoccupied in the first place? talking long term after the first rush months) or anything note worthy, why would you want to settle there and lengthen your travel time to the currently relevant spots?"

You can settle anywhere you want. There will be only soft cap regarding the number of citizen can be in one node. You do not have to be citizen in a metro, you can be citizen in any other node. You can even play without be citizen in anywhere. Each developed node will be near resources, because nobody will develop a node where are nothing.

"You lose all those as well as having to earn the new citizenship and starting from scratch, which, in a metropolis will be quite a bit of a new investment as was explained several times."

You can sell your previous property. So it is not start from the scratch, it just some losses. But this part does not really matter, if you want to stay at your metro, you are not motivated to siege somebody. I brought this part up, because some other MMORPG. There are a few castle what can be owned by only 1 guild per castle. Usually they control the territory, but here the things seems different. You can have your own business even without guild in any node where you wish, you do not need to fight for it, maybe defend it. If you loose you can still stay there, but with a one less level node. But you win nothing from the offensive siege.

"I don't know where you got your info, but looking at your list of motivators indicates to me that your knowledgebase of what nodes do for oyu is lacking. "

That is why I wrote here, but you did not add any line to the motivator line. So maybe my knowledge is not that low as you think. ('For the loot' is part of the hatred. Maybe I should rephrase it, but stealing someone's stuff is not a positive thing.)

Dayuhan

Because civilization is inherently evil and awakens the corruption in Verra that has lain mostly dormant for generations. The civilizations, including their Metropolises and Cities, must be destroyed to save Verra from further corruption!

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it "

Damokles

Motivation:
-resetting the Zone of Influence of the enemy node
-promoting your strength
-advancing your own Zone of Influence
-obtaining rare resources

Nagash

damokles wrote: »

Motivation:
-resetting the Zone of Influence of the enemy node
-promoting your strength
-advancing your own Zone of Influence
-obtaining rare resources

and making an army don't forget that ^^

Dygz

There is racial progression that won't be possible to experience unless there is a Metro of your racial type.
Also, there might not be a Metro for the Node type you desire - thus the server won't have the services you seek.. like no fast travel if there is no Scientific Node. Or maybe you want to remove fat travel from your server.
Or, you might not like the leaders of that Metro and decide to stage a coup.

mcstackerson

They cost a lot to start but you are also rewarded for victory and the longer the node is around, the bigger the reward.

Yes, because there is no faction system, everybody can be your friend but they also can be your enemy.

We also know that node wars will be a thing, so there will be ways for conflicts to start between nodes without investing in a siege.

grisu

ghoosty wrote: »

"
This was my first thought as a reason, but this would be impossible, because of the automatic vassal node system. The node next to the Metropolis will be vassal node automatically, and it is not possible to siege the parent node. So that reason is only valid if there are already 5 metropolis in the world and your community want another one.

um yeah you did say that you cant initiate a nodewar when you are a vasal node to a parent node. It has not hing to do with a node status

well if you disregard everything I asy for "its not true/unimpoortant" then yeah I didnt add anything. Well keep your missinformation up I tried.

mcstackerson

To my knowledge, Node sieges are initiated by individuals, not nodes. A vassal node (it's government) can't declare war on it's parent node but people from the node can do the quest for the siege item and declare a siege themselves.

Ghoosty

mcstackerson wrote: »

To my knowledge, Node sieges are initiated by individuals, not nodes. A vassal node (it's government) can't declare war on it's parent node but people from the node can do the quest for the siege item and declare a siege themselves.

Thank you, somehow I missed that. In this case it is also a good reason for attack.
It was good idea to open this thread, I start to be calm that there will be enough siege.

(Edit: Actually, I find why I missed that on the page of node War there is the node siege, but in that place there are no mention that it is independent from the node war. On the node siege page there are the details, what clarify lot of things.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Node_wars)

neuroguy

Well some reasons are already stated like competing neighboring nodes (ty for clarification mcstackerson) and the relics (which noaani eluded to and grisu mentioned). But importantly it will be mostly political. You have to remember nodes are kind of run by guilds/individuals (mayors). These guild affiliations, combined with drama of limited to kill world bosses and pvp (particularly castles) will dictate the conflict. I think that's the whole idea behind the sandbox part, each server will build its own history, grudges, rivalries. I'm not really sure what domination will look like (being super rich? holding the legendary items?) but I'm under the impression that players and guilds can become powerful enough to impact other players/guilds they are competing with especially with limited world bosses, non-instanced raids etc. So a lot of the incentive to siege will be to hurt the power, economic or otherwise, of competing guilds. And once the drama starts, it will just supply conflict on its own further down the line.

From a non-competing player's perspective, greed is a good incentive. If a metro gets raised, you can loot stuff for instance. But I think more importantly, building up a new one is a big opportunity to strike it rich. If you invest in property in a node that could become the next metro you have a big opportunity to flip it for cash. Otherwise, I assume providing resources for growing nodes will be lucrative when the nodes are competing to become metros.

In summary, there are the obvious game progression and greed incentives but also drama and power structures :P.

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