Intrepid it's time for some damage control

I want to preface this by saying I still believe in Intrepid and the project which is why I'm making this post, because I want it to succeed.

Intrepid, I think you need to engage in some damage control before things get out of hand and you lose all credibility. Back in 2017 when you did the kickstarter campaign you had a very clear goal - to make a great mmorpg. People saw that and they loved what you were saying which is why the kickstarter was so successful.

Now though, people are starting to doubt you, and it seems that everything you try to do just results in bad PR. The decision to make APOC a stand-alone product has muddied the waters because regardless of your intentions, all most people will see is a Fortnite knock-off. Players who backed an mmorpg only see APOC and wonder what is going on.

Putting microtransactions into APOC only adds to this confusion, and is pretty poor timing in general. The entire gaming industry is in an uproar right now when it comes to microtransactions and so a lot of people will see you monetizing for a game in Alpha state and immediately dismiss you as a cash-grabbing scumbag company. You may have perfectly valid reasons for doing what you are doing, but that is how it comes across to the players.

Then we get onto the recent APOC test. In my opinion putting the game on steam has only worsened the game's reputation. 224 reviews on steam and only 38% of those were positive. Now I've read through a lot of those negative reviews and a lot of them are garbage, but that doesn't matter. New players will go onto the steam page and see the "mostly negative" reviews box and immediately turn away. The fact that it says "open beta" doesn't matter, it's still bad PR.

Similarly, the recent gamescom trailer you released has been met with a luke-warm reception at best. As of writing this the like-dislikes on the IGN video are 806 likes to 374 dislikes, from 38,122 views. That is not great at all. Looking down the comments of that video a lot of people are very confused by the trailer. A good trailer is supposed to get the viewer interested in some way through the visuals and/or dialogue, as well as giving hints as to what the game will be like to play. Your trailer doesn't do that at all.

Hell, take a look at the tweet you put out to accompany the trailer:

"Ashes of Creation is an MMORPG set on a fallen world untouched by civilisations for thousands of years. Rebuild, repopulate and rediscover the world of Verra."

Now, after reading that description (which sounds amazing by the way), go back and watch the trailer. Is that the impression you get? The sense of exploring a long-forgotten world? Of starting from scratch and rebuilding what was once lost? It's definitely not the impression I get at all. Again, this kind of thing just produces bad PR and makes people wonder what exactly you are doing. And the fact that you call it the "official gameplay teaser trailer" is laughable. Ask yourselves honestly, if the first impression of Ashes of Creation you had was that teaser trailer, would you be interested in playing the game?

TLDR: I urge you Intrepid, to take a good hard look at what you are doing and reflect on how it is seen by the players. Do it now before things get worse.

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Nagash

with the number of people defending them they will most likely carry on.

Dygz

Wandering Mist wrote: »

Take a look at the tweet you put out to accompany the trailer:

"Ashes of Creation is an MMORPG set on a fallen world untouched by civilisations for thousands of years. Rebuild, repopulate and rediscover the world of Verra."

Now, after reading that description (which sounds amazing by the way), go back and watch the trailer. Is that the impression you get? The sense of exploring a long-forgotten world? Of starting from scratch and rebuilding what was once lost? It's definitely not the impression I get at all. Again, this kind of thing just produces bad PR and makes people wonder what exactly you are doing. And the fact that you call it the "official gameplay teaser trailer" is laughable. Ask yourselves honestly, if the first impression of Ashes of Creation you had was that teaser trailer, would you be interested in playing the game?

The official title of the video is: Ashes of Creation MMORPG Teaser.
I agree, the description on the official YouTube channel is much better suited for the vid than the tweet:
"In Ashes of Creation, cities will rise and fall. Their fates determined through the force of will and power. This is something you’ve never experienced before - a completely unique world that never stops changing."

syl

On point.

flatline

I might or might not agree with what you are saying, only because it may or may not be considered as Trolling.... What i can say is good job at articulating your point...

Wandering Mist

flatline wrote: »

I might or might not agree with what you are saying, only because it may or may not be considered as Trolling.... What i can say is good job at articulating your point...

If providing honest and constructive feedback is considered trolling then I will have lost all hope for this world.....

flatline

Wandering Mist wrote: »

flatline wrote: »

I might or might not agree with what you are saying, only because it may or may not be considered as Trolling.... What i can say is good job at articulating your point...

If providing honest and constructive feedback is considered trolling then I will have lost all hope for this world.....

Historical data would suggest something slightly differant...

Nagash

flatline wrote: »

I might or might not agree with what you are saying, only because it may or may not be considered as Trolling.... What i can say is good job at articulating your point...

This is what's wrong with ashes, you share your issues and you are called a troll or just hateful. News flash intrepid are a company not your friend

noemad

Wandering Mist wrote: »

Now though, people are starting to doubt you, and it seems that everything you try to do just results in bad PR. The decision to make APOC a stand-alone product has muddied the waters because regardless of your intentions, all most people will see is a Fortnite knock-off. Players who backed an mmorpg only see APOC and wonder what is going on.

I have to admit that this was off-putting for me as well. It's just too much a reminder of the last MMORPG I became emotionally invested in. It was supposed to be the next phase in the evolution of a beloved franchise. A continuation of the game I first started my MMORPG life playing. I bought into the game, both emotionally and financially, and was thrilled when I found out we were going to get access very early to the game world and that what we did would help build the final product, the MMO we were all waiting for. Then after spending this money and playing the game-before-the-game for quite a while, thinking we were helping, in a small way, develop the MMO the rug was jerked out from under us. The MMO was cancelled, the game-before-the-game was being released as a standalone product and all of us who had invested time, money and emotions into this evolution of our beloved franchise were out of luck. That game was Everquest Next. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm getting bad feelings of deja vu.

Shoklen

noemad wrote: »

I have to admit that this was off-putting for me as well. It's just too much a reminder of the last MMORPG I became emotionally invested in. It was supposed to be the next phase in the evolution of a beloved franchise. A continuation of the game I first started my MMORPG life playing. I bought into the game, both emotionally and financially, and was thrilled when I found out we were going to get access very early to the game world and that what we did would help build the final product, the MMO we were all waiting for. Then after spending this money and playing the game-before-the-game for quite a while, thinking we were helping, in a small way, develop the MMO the rug was jerked out from under us. The MMO was cancelled, the game-before-the-game was being released as a standalone product and all of us who had invested time, money and emotions into this evolution of our beloved franchise were out of luck. That game was Everquest Next. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm getting bad feelings of deja vu.

I felt that pain as well... and what a burn EQ:N was... I love the way characters moved in EQN far more then the stiffer movement experienced in Apoc. The twitch combat also felt better in Next.. Melee (1hr/2hr), Ranged (bows/pistols).. We won't get into Next here, but yeah, that hurt a lot... what they did..

I'm not quite feeling that same (deji vu) vibe from this studio, not yet anyway.

Funny side story.. That other studio sent me a letter yesterday stating I never cashed a check they sent, and if I still wanted it I better contact them.. Or they will sent the amount to my State's revenue department to hold onto.. Which I'm sure is all very true... Burn me on Next.. fine.. You can do all this crazy paperwork... The check is for 30 cents... haha. :P

Kesarakk

I agree with everything you are saying @Wandering Mist . The confusion behind AoC has turned off more than a few potential players. I hype every month about what Intrepid is up to and the things they release, but then when it comes to talking about APOC, which seems to be the only topic lately, I try to avoid it. I personally find it embarrassing to try and hype my family and friends into an MMO, which we all love the genre, when all that they can see right now is a BR mode of the game, which has garnered the same respect of mobile games in the pc community.

While it would hurt to have to sit and wonder for a while, I think the best thing Intrepid could do at this point is pull a Gandalf. Disappear without notice and when all hope has been lost reappear with an army of angry horsemen at your back.

I want nothing more than Intrepid to succeed at their mission, but right now it feels like they are "crunching" to get content out and there is no love or care behind it. That may be an unfair observation, but that is the risk you take with transparent red tape.

insomnia

kesarakk wrote: »

I agree with everything you are saying @Wandering Mist . The confusion behind AoC has turned off more than a few potential players. I hype every month about what Intrepid is up to and the things they release, but then when it comes to talking about APOC, which seems to be the only topic lately, I try to avoid it. I personally find it embarrassing to try and hype my family and friends into an MMO, which we all love the genre, when all that they can see right now is a BR mode of the game, which has garnered the same respect of mobile games in the pc community.

While it would hurt to have to sit and wonder for a while, I think the best thing Intrepid could do at this point is pull a Gandalf. Disappear without notice and when all hope has been lost reappear with an army of angry horsemen at your back.

I want nothing more than Intrepid to succeed at their mission, but right now it feels like they are "crunching" to get content out and there is no love or care behind it. That may be an unfair observation, but that is the risk you take with transparent red tape.

I think that would be worse. Some people already complain about the lack on new information. But again, some people are also just stupid, and dosen't seem to reconice, that making a game takes time

Azathoth

@Wandering Mist
I reluctantly agree with your well stated and, imo, accurate post.

flatline

Nagash wrote: »

flatline wrote: »

I might or might not agree with what you are saying, only because it may or may not be considered as Trolling.... What i can say is good job at articulating your point...

This is what's wrong with ashes, you share your issues and you are called a troll or just hateful. News flash intrepid are a company not your friend

I agree

mcstackerson

Idk but to me, by asking them to improve their PR, you are basically telling them to stop releasing stuff because I don't think they can give what people want....yet. While I agree the teaser wasn't the best, this seems to happen every time they try to release something new. It's never enough and people use it as an excuse bash the game. If you want to blame them for not meeting their deadlines then cool but it's kind of like crying over spilled milk.

At this point, the best PR move is them doing what No Man Sky did and cut communication to focus on the product. Do we really want that?

akabear

Based on the current sentiment, would people prefer the Amazon New World approach? Put the game out for testing for a solid few months, seek feedback and accumulate data during that period, achieve goal amount of feedback and data, shut down testing and go into communication blackout for multiple months while they develop and improve the game before a rinse and repeat at the next tier of development.

Wandering Mist

mcstackerson wrote: »

Idk but to me, by asking them to improve their PR, you are basically telling them to stop releasing stuff because I don't think they can give what people want....yet. While I agree the teaser wasn't the best, this seems to happen every time they try to release something new. It's never enough and people use it as an excuse bash the game. If you want to blame them for not meeting their deadlines then cool but it's kind of like crying over spilled milk.

At this point, the best PR move is them doing what No Man Sky did and cut communication to focus on the product. Do we really want that?

It's not so much about giving people what they want, but sending a clear message. The kickstarter campaign had a very clear message. The aim was to create an mmorpg with a constantly changing world. But now that message is very muddied and confused. Are they making an mmorpg or a battle royal game? The teaser trailer they released just adds to this confusion, as does the monetization of the game.

Also, I disagree about the videos they are releasing. The dev diaries videos they put out were really good, as they give us a glimpse of what we will see in the mmorpg. The result is they have generally been positively received by the community.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m480ManhzQ

Just look at the comments of this video compared to the comments on the teaser trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg5qrykjgNc

The difference is night and day. So no, I don't believe shutting down all communication would be a good thing, they just need to think a little bit on how their game is perceived. Sometimes they get it right, with the dev diaries series, but then other times they really do make a mess of things.

EDIT: Here's a little experiment. Show the teaser trailer to someone who knows nothing about Ashes of Creation and see what they have to say about it. Then show them the Quarrier creation video and I guarantee you'll get a completely different impression.

Damokles

Okay guys lets analyse the Trailer and find the weaknesses:

"An empty, though nice looking city, then a shot followingh a pathway over some water, with people standing on top of it. These people are seemingly at peace and are talking with each other. "
What is wrong here? The actual walkway over the water has the placeholder texture on it!

"A closeup of 4 people in a battle stance"
Problem: The scene before that held no clue to any danger, leading the viewer to imagine 4 people standing on a square just doing some poses....

"The four people are seen running through the street, while battle(?) music starts to play in the background. Every other NPC in the scene is standing still and talks to each other."
Problem: NO ONE ELSE IS SEEN TO PREPARE OR EVEN WORRY! The battlemusic/voicelines in the background are all seemingly implying danger, but there is no visible danger.....

"We see a forrest with cool lighting effects, and raptors. Not really big raptors, and not that many raptors, but oh well... The raptors start running towards somewhere."
How did those 4 people know that the raptors where comming? No idea.

"The city has walls, but no gate.... The raptors are running over a bridge and get bombarded with ONE meteor. Raptors and 4... no wait there is a mysterious 5th member now! They engage in battle, while the npcs watch on. The raptor pack is defeated!"
Okay i can accept the city with no gates, but that they let the NPCs stand at the side is a bit much....

"A closeup shot of a mountain fortress that has no visible connection to the earlier scenes. We follow a group of riders out of the fortress. Six gryphon riders engage the fortress and drop bombs. The riders.... land? Both groups run at each other. Before they meet in battle, they get interrupted by a thunderbolt! DRAGON! Dragon flies over the castle, while we see a multitude of siege weapons fire in some direction... Dragon lands, yells and.... End of trailer."

Okay.... *sigh*

Problems:
-Why did the riders go outside of the castle? Did they know that the gryphon riders where comming?
-Why did the gryphon riders land?
-WHY DID THE DRAGON LAND?!?

Lets recap:
None of the shown scenes make any sense, here is how they could have rectified that at least a bit.

Dont show the Ashes logo or anything in that regard! (That enhances the mystery of the shown presentation)

Show the raptors first. Let them protect some HUGE egg.
Then open with some beautifull forrest scenery, and show some lone human attack their nest, enrage the pack, steal the egg and then flee.
The human then shoots a signalflare to alert the settlement/his buddies.

Show the buddies gear up and ride out of the city and engage the pack outside of the city, maybe on the edge of the forrest or something. Show someone actually cast the meteor spell, maybe let him destroy some trees.
(Destruction is one point in Ashes that nearly NO OTHER MMORPG HAS!)
Let them fight the raptor pack, show some cool animations on both sides.

Connect both locations, show that the same group, that fought the raptors, travels with a caravan to the mountain fortress or something, let them guard the cool looking egg (reason for the dragon later and also the reason for the other players to attack).
Show the gryphon riders following the caravan, give both groups different logos, implying that they are enemy guilds or something.
Give the fortress the same logo that the caravan group had, implying that the fortress is their guilds base of operations.

After the caravan arives in the fortress, let them carefully unpack the egg, and show it to some other players.
Let someone blow a horn to allert the fortress of the gryphon riders.

The riders do their bombardment thing, and challenge the caravan group to a 6v6 PvP fight.

Both groups engage and while in battle, the dragon appears! The dragon sets some things on fire, while circling the fortress, destroying the trebuches.

Let the dragon land, rise up on its hind legs, and then bellow out a flame that actually transforms in the Ashes logo on a black background.

That is how they could have saved the trailer in my opinion, let my know what you think!

Azathoth

Also, players will supposedly not be able to fly. So unless the Griffins were gliding from a point high enough to still be above the castle when they arrived, this could indicate flying mounts. I mean you could see the mountain in the background they could have glided in from, and the griffins land pretty quickly, but as someone watching that for the first time and then reading up on Ashes and learning there won't be flying mounts, that's just odd.

I like the video, and since it's just a game play video I don't think it would need to tell a story.
I don't think reasonable people would be disappointed to learn the griffins were likely gliders, not fliers.

Viymjr

@Wandering Mist you make a very good point about the micro transactions and the confusion this creates. Intrepid are sending the wrong message out when the game in reality is still at an early age of development. Everything at this stage should be free to play, no monetisation at all. It should be called what it is Alpha, not call it a Beta. The initial testing should be restricted to those that have already bought a package, and those that are showing close interest in the development.

Dygz

Wandering Mist wrote: »

It's not so much about giving people what they want, but sending a clear message. The kickstarter campaign had a very clear message. The aim was to create an mmorpg with a constantly changing world. But now that message is very muddied and confused. Are they making an mmorpg or a battle royal game? The teaser trailer they released just adds to this confusion, as does the monetization of the game.

All seems like a clear message to me.
They are making an MMORPG.
Preliminary testing for the MMORPG is in the form of a BR because that's the quickest and easiest way to have players test preliminary mechanics.
The monetization for the BR allows Apoc to have its own funding rather than relying on MMORPG funding.

How does the MMORPG teaser add confusion??

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