Dear Intrepid (Post concerning too much information pre-launch)

A few days ago I posted on here about Intrepid's transparency/open development. That post sort of blew up and there was a lot of controversy and disagreement. Now, I'm coming from a different angle and I really hope that Intrepid gets to read this.

I was reading through Albion Online's subreddit and someone asked what the players' story was of first getting into the game. Someone explained how on day one they, and many other players, rushed to the black zones, the more dangerous and more rewarding zones. They did so to gain silver (in game currency) so that then they could buy gold (real money currency) with silver because the silver to gold conversion started at 1:1 on launch, but quickly rose to 1:15 by the end of that same day. So people who invested in gold on day 1 got very rich very fast.

I used the Albion Online story to explain that there were some players who knew exactly what to do on day one so that they could get an advantage. Enough information about game mechanics, resources, economy etc. had been released and played through in the alphas and betas, that on launch day some people had a tremendous advantage.

I also played that game from day one, but like the majority of players I progressed through the game naturally (in the blue, yellow and red zones) and didn't make it to the black zones until much later. It wasn't the biggest issue and I still enjoyed the game very much in my cluelesness, but I can only imagine how great it would have been if everyone could figure out the game together step by step starting on launch day.

Therefore, I hope that you will not release information on how the game will play out exactly so that people can't plan to min max before the game even launches. This way everyone will enter Verra truly in the unknown. I know that Steven has said that he doesn't want to divulge too much about the world and lore and I'm hoping that that includes progression systems (money making, resources, development, gearing, etc.)

I'm still hoping that you show us progress on other things such as classes and races though

but as far as in game progression I hope that you let us all discover it on day one of launch. The Albion Online story is a great example of how people went out of their way to bypass the natural progression of the game because they had learned in previous testing of a much more effective way to gain an advantage on launch day.

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Makinoji

Planned wipes for testing phases and changes to systems or mechanics during testing will prevent this type of gameplay IMO.

There will be plenty of wipes and many changes to class kits, game mechanics, and other factors such as weather systems, node progression, leveling, crafting, and also the human factor that would make it near impossible to know to a T what zones will be profitable. Steven has stated currency will only drop from things that would normally carry such things and those types of items would drop rarely from regular animals.

He has learned from what happened in AA's economy to know what IS needs to avoid, hopefully.

However, you can't totally prevent anyone from theory-crafting once those systems are in their hands for testing. This is why being in a guild or having some form of network is important in MMOs. I know more than 10 people who live off metrics/spreadsheets to grow their wealth in games. The information people hold close to the chest is the information that can break or make any in-game economy.

Noaani

This is much more reasonable than the other thread.

IMO, the first thing to remember with Ashes is that all content is tied to node type and level - and all nodes start at level 0. As far as I am aware, there is a plan to keep nodes (and thus content) locked for the first few days after launch.

This means that there is somewhat less of a chance of any significant day 1 advantages as has happened in almost every other MMO.

I mean, it's only natural for people that have knowledge to make use of it to their best advantage, but if all the content for the first few days is below level 10, and it increases in level organically, then the scale of advantage to be gained is somewhat lessened.

VmanGman

noaani wrote: »

This is much more reasonable than the other thread.

IMO, the first thing to remember with Ashes is that all content is tied to node type and level - and all nodes start at level 0. As far as I am aware, there is a plan to keep nodes (and thus content) locked for the first few days after launch.

This means that there is somewhat less of a chance of any significant day 1 advantages as has happened in almost every other MMO.

I mean, it's only natural for people that have knowledge to make use of it to their best advantage, but if all the content for the first few days is below level 10, and it increases in level organically, then the scale of advantage to be gained is somewhat lessened.

I still stand by my old thread. I still think that Intrepid is not communicating enough quality updates for a company that claims to be in open development.

However, I definitely think that they should keep some stuff to themselves.

What you're saying doesn't exactly answer my point though because even with all the nodes being level 0 on day one. If people know before launch for example that rushing this or that resources will pay big bucks it could totally take away from the wander of stepping into Verra fresh with everyone else. It could be a resource or a location or a dungeon or whatever it may be that tells people where to go and what to do to get an advantage right of the bat.

Noaani

vmangman wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

This is much more reasonable than the other thread.

IMO, the first thing to remember with Ashes is that all content is tied to node type and level - and all nodes start at level 0. As far as I am aware, there is a plan to keep nodes (and thus content) locked for the first few days after launch.

This means that there is somewhat less of a chance of any significant day 1 advantages as has happened in almost every other MMO.

I mean, it's only natural for people that have knowledge to make use of it to their best advantage, but if all the content for the first few days is below level 10, and it increases in level organically, then the scale of advantage to be gained is somewhat lessened.

I still stand by my old thread. I still think that Intrepid is not communicating enough quality updates for a company that claims to be in open development.

However, I definitely think that they should keep some stuff to themselves.

What you're saying doesn't exactly answer my point though because even with all the nodes being level 0 on day one. If people know before launch for example that rushing this or that resources will pay big bucks it could totally take away from the wander of stepping into Verra fresh with everyone else. It could be a resource or a location or a dungeon or whatever it may be that tells people where to go and what to do to get an advantage right of the bat.

Resource spawn locations are somewhat randomized.

Resource types will spawn in logical areas, but the exact location and which resource will spawn is random.

This means someone absolutely will stumble upon a somewhat rarer resource in the first few days, but it will be the result of dumb luck rather than planning (although luck does favor the prepared - if you go around checking all the locations where ore spawns, the chances of finding a rare ore will go up).

Dungeons though, they are populated completely based on node type and level (not necessarily just of the closest node from what I can gather).

The assumption from that is that there are no populated dungeons until nodes are able to start leveling - which again is after a few days.

What I'm saying is that when we enter Verra for the first time on Live - even if we spent 100+ hours in alpha/beta - we won't know where anything is.

The advantage players could gain before launch are all in regards to understanding the game systems, not knowing where things are.

VmanGman

noaani wrote: »

vmangman wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

This is much more reasonable than the other thread.

IMO, the first thing to remember with Ashes is that all content is tied to node type and level - and all nodes start at level 0. As far as I am aware, there is a plan to keep nodes (and thus content) locked for the first few days after launch.

This means that there is somewhat less of a chance of any significant day 1 advantages as has happened in almost every other MMO.

I mean, it's only natural for people that have knowledge to make use of it to their best advantage, but if all the content for the first few days is below level 10, and it increases in level organically, then the scale of advantage to be gained is somewhat lessened.

I still stand by my old thread. I still think that Intrepid is not communicating enough quality updates for a company that claims to be in open development.

However, I definitely think that they should keep some stuff to themselves.

What you're saying doesn't exactly answer my point though because even with all the nodes being level 0 on day one. If people know before launch for example that rushing this or that resources will pay big bucks it could totally take away from the wander of stepping into Verra fresh with everyone else. It could be a resource or a location or a dungeon or whatever it may be that tells people where to go and what to do to get an advantage right of the bat.

Resource spawn locations are somewhat randomized.

Resource types will spawn in logical areas, but the exact location and which resource will spawn is random.

This means someone absolutely will stumble upon a somewhat rarer resource in the first few days, but it will be the result of dumb luck rather than planning (although luck does favor the prepared - if you go around checking all the locations where ore spawns, the chances of finding a rare ore will go up).

Dungeons though, they are populated completely based on node type and level (not necessarily just of the closest node from what I can gather).

The assumption from that is that there are no populated dungeons until nodes are able to start leveling - which again is after a few days.

What I'm saying is that when we enter Verra for the first time on Live - even if we spent 100+ hours in alpha/beta - we won't know where anything is.

The advantage players could gain before launch are all in regards to understanding the game systems, not knowing where things are.

Yes, and I mentioned both of those in my post.

Noaani

vmangman wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

vmangman wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

This is much more reasonable than the other thread.

IMO, the first thing to remember with Ashes is that all content is tied to node type and level - and all nodes start at level 0. As far as I am aware, there is a plan to keep nodes (and thus content) locked for the first few days after launch.

This means that there is somewhat less of a chance of any significant day 1 advantages as has happened in almost every other MMO.

I mean, it's only natural for people that have knowledge to make use of it to their best advantage, but if all the content for the first few days is below level 10, and it increases in level organically, then the scale of advantage to be gained is somewhat lessened.

I still stand by my old thread. I still think that Intrepid is not communicating enough quality updates for a company that claims to be in open development.

However, I definitely think that they should keep some stuff to themselves.

What you're saying doesn't exactly answer my point though because even with all the nodes being level 0 on day one. If people know before launch for example that rushing this or that resources will pay big bucks it could totally take away from the wander of stepping into Verra fresh with everyone else. It could be a resource or a location or a dungeon or whatever it may be that tells people where to go and what to do to get an advantage right of the bat.

Resource spawn locations are somewhat randomized.

Resource types will spawn in logical areas, but the exact location and which resource will spawn is random.

This means someone absolutely will stumble upon a somewhat rarer resource in the first few days, but it will be the result of dumb luck rather than planning (although luck does favor the prepared - if you go around checking all the locations where ore spawns, the chances of finding a rare ore will go up).

Dungeons though, they are populated completely based on node type and level (not necessarily just of the closest node from what I can gather).

The assumption from that is that there are no populated dungeons until nodes are able to start leveling - which again is after a few days.

What I'm saying is that when we enter Verra for the first time on Live - even if we spent 100+ hours in alpha/beta - we won't know where anything is.

The advantage players could gain before launch are all in regards to understanding the game systems, not knowing where things are.

Yes, and I mentioned both of those in my post.

You mentioned them both in terms of things you don't want to see.

I mentioned them in terms of there being plans in place for the thing you don't want to see to not happen.

This is how discussion works. You say a thing, then others build upon that thing.

Put another way, what I'm saying is that the thing you are worried about is already dealt with, so you need not worry your pretty little socks about it.

Undead Canuck

The nodes being locked for a couple of days is for the headstart servers. They are locked to not have the headstart people get an advantage (other than being in game a bit longer). Launch day everything is enabled.

From what they have been saying, there is no special currency. And since it is not P2W, there is no real world currency equivalent that people can 'game'.

And, technically we will know where things are since supposedly the alpha servers are a section of the live servers. We may be able to know where things are, but I haven't seen any official statement saying that about the servers.

Wandering Mist

This is a problem a lot of Multiplayer Games suffer from. In order to test the game effectively you need to open it up to the public, but this means those that do the testing will ultimately be more familiar with the game than those who don't test it.

Back in the day, WoW players asked Blizzard not to do public testing for Blackwing Lair because they wanted a level playing field. Blizzard complied and admitted afterwards that the raid wasn't nearly as polished as the raids that had gone through public testing.

The simple fact is that in house testing can only do so much. Again, Blizzard have openly admitted this, even going so far as to say that they design encounters that they themselves cannot defeat. This means that in order to test the raids fully they need players who are more skilled at actually playing the game.

At the end of the day would you rather the game be released a broken mess, or give some players a slight advantage from testing the game?

Azathoth

I think that anyone who is unable to get into one of the 4 testing grounds, and is not on a head start server, will have plenty of streamed content to review.

So besides actually playing the game, any information acquired by a player will likely be posted as a stream somewhere.

I don't watch game streams, nor do I post them, but I am sure this will be an option.

Wandering Mist

Azathoth wrote: »

I think that anyone who is unable to get into one of the 4 testing grounds, and is not on a head start server, will have plenty of streamed content to review.

So besides actually playing the game, any information acquired by a player will likely be posted as a stream somewhere.

I don't watch game streams, nor do I post them, but I am sure this will be an option.

Watching a game being played and playing it yourself are 2 entirely different things. Sure, everyone might have the knowledge and theory, but not the practical experience. Also there are quite a few people who like to go into a new game completely blind and learn as they go instead of learning from a guide beforehand. These players will naturally be at a disadvantage compared to people who play on the test servers or watch/read guides before the game launches.

Dygz

Not really sure what disadvantaged player means in a game where nodes can be deleveled and destroyed.
Getting to a node first does not guarantee enough support to be competitive with other nodes.
For all we know currently, the players with no experience may be able to progress their nodes faster than the players with experience simply because the non-experienced players have more active participants at their nodes than the experienced players have.

Wandering Mist

Dygz wrote: »

Not really sure what disadvantaged player means in a game where nodes can be deleveled and destroyed.
Getting to a node first does not guarantee enough support to be competitive with other nodes.
For all we know currently, the players with no experience may be able to progress their nodes faster than the players with experience simply because the non-experienced players have more active participants at their nodes than the experienced players have.

I'm more thinking about the combat than anything else, which is very important in a game that relies heavily on open world PvP.

Dygz

Relies heavily on node progression and siege PvP combat... hence, why I don't see how players will be disadvantaged in the manner suggested.

Azathoth

I do not watch game streams as I have previously stated here.
However, if there are players who, like me, choose not to watch streams and want to see it first when they play it, they're not at a disadvantage.

They are not at a disadvantage because they chose to enter the playing field the way they did. They chose not to watch or read about it. That isn't a disadvantage, that is what they want.

Playing APOC should give players some resemblance to combat in the MMORPG, if not, that's another reason why APOC failed.

Not being on the headstart server is also not a disadvantage unless, as stated above, you are considering play time prior to xp gain for player and the nodes an advantage and then choose to start on a headstart server.

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