Locations of Raids and Fast Travel

Apologies if this has been discussed before (in which case I'd appreciate a link), but a question popped into my mind about raids and fast travel. I understand that raids will appear on the map based on the development and events on each server, and that the game will not have any fast travel with the exception of scientific metropolises.

Is there a possibility that, say, a major raid ends up spawning in the northeast corner of the map (because, for example, the raid is connected to the first Tier 5 military node that develops, and that happens to be in the extreme NE corner)? If that happens, will people based on nodes on the southwest corner of the map simply face a long and arduous journey each time they want to do that raid dungeon? Or will the mechanics for server prevent raids from spawning in inconvenient locations or will some limited form of fast travel be offered to reach such a raid dungeon?

Also, seems like major raiding guilds will have a strong incentive to locate near the middle of the map to try to minimize distances to raids, at least assuming there's no raid-specific fast travel.

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Damokles

Raids and dungeons will differ in difficulty depending on the nodes level. Thats at least how i understood it.

StreetCornerPoet

I would expect most people will probably stick to one metropolis since there isn't going to be any real fast travel across the map and raid or do dungeons next to the spot they happen to settle in. And those open raid spots will probably be protected by the nearest guilds or cities and chase off "poachers".

You might have a few wandering groups that never settle, but trying to go from one side of the map to another just to set up a raid seems like way more work then its going to be worth.

Dygz

I don't know what you mean by "each time they want to do that raid".
Majority of raids won't really be repeatable.
Also, a raid boss might last long enough for people to travel to.
I don't think that Winter Dragon will be defeated in one day... or even in one week.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

Majority of raids won't really be repeatable.

That is a completely unsubstantiated claim.

Dygz

"One of the design elements that we're implementing into our raids is that the raid will not be exactly the same every single time. You're going to have variables that can't necessarily be pre-planned out for. You can pre-plan out for a lot of the raid like how many DPS do you need and healers and support; where the key position and all that kind of stuff; but I think the compelling aspect of Ashes raiding will be the difficulty in achieving this content and having that content change from session to session as well. We want there to be variables that get manifested by you know what type of node got developed elsewhere. Is he going to have acolytes or cultists? What will the acolytes have skills [available] to them? What kit is the boss gonna have? What available skill repertoire will the boss be able to [wield]? ... A lot of those systems are influenced obviously by world development. So the raid kind of takes into account at what stage has the world developed: Are there two metropolises now available in the world? Okay well let's activate this skill in this skill. Now you have five metropolises, well now all these skills have been activated. Are there are they all economic nodes? Are they all military nodes? That we can change things based on that stuff. And it really is a threat assessment from the environment against the players."
--- Steven Sharif

https://youtu.be/kJbyxRdB6dE?t=1380

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

"One of the design elements that we're implementing into our raids is that the raid will not be exactly the same every single time.

Taking a statement that raids will have an element of randomness to them and using that to claim that raids will not be repeatable in a thread about traveling to raids is beneath even you.

May be I shouldn't, but I still expect better.

Dygz

"The challenge of the combat itself will be pretty intricate mechanics-wise. We're going to have different phases of the bosses, there's going to be a lot of adds stuff, there's going to be random oriented skill usage. We're not going to have telegraphed templates on the ground, but we will have telegraphed animations, so it's going to be location, mobility, strategic. It will be something that can not be repeatable in the exact same way from raid to raid, but has a variance between the combat, so raiders are going to have to be fluid in thinking on their feet."
---Steven Sharif

https://youtu.be/JH-sX1aFljM?t=4487

Dygz

noaani wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Majority of raids won't really be repeatable.

That is a completely unsubstantiated claim.

Just as we can destroy Nodes, we can also de-populate dungeons and raids.
Killing a raid boss can cause that boss to be removed to respawn in a different region at a later date.
That might be PAX info, though.

Noaani

None of the quotes you have posted (nor any you could find) have anything at all to say that raid content won't be able to be repeated. There will be subtle differences in the raid content session to session, but those changes will be so subtle that not even the role make up of the raid would need to change to take them on (as per your own quote).

This thread is about travel to raids, and the post you responded to was asking about travel to raids, thus the only reasonable reply pertains to travel to raids.

There will be parts of the world that will house raid content for long stretches of time, if not indefinitely. How raid guilds will get there is indeed a valid question.

Edit; both my hope and my current assumption is that most established raid guilds will have a minimum speed mount as a requirement for joining, as there is scope for a whole lot of riding and it would be more efficient to do that as a group.

Gimlog

Without any beta testing it's hard to say ... the number of scientists nodes will have a huge impact, if the 3 others nodes type aren't that good vs fast travel , you could have at least 3 scientists nodes in the word and be able to fast travel across half of the map at least.
Or have none and do a day play journey if your are really wanting to do this dungeon on the others side of the map.

But as I said without any testing nothing is sure , we don't know where the gates of the four races will be . Would they be in each corner with the Tulnar in the centre ? Would they be line up in the north ?
The location of populations will determine location of dungeon ... To much unknown and to much variable but yes if you are parte of the 10% that choose to go at gate A and 50% are at gate C in the opposite corner of the map, you have to do long journey to do lvl 6-7 nodes dungeon or choose to go live there .

The game as been designed to attract peoples with peoples, if there aren't enough player on a server to sustain 5 metropolis, there won't be 5 metropolis ect ect.

So you'll will have to wait mid late 2020 to see how this world will react at the players, than if Steven don't like the way it's go they may adjust stuff and in the end it's your server populations and choose who tell if you will travel a lot or not ...

Dygz

noaani wrote: »

None of the quotes you have posted (nor any you could find) have anything at all to say that raid content won't be able to be repeated. There will be subtle differences in the raid content session to session, but those changes will be so subtle that not even the role make up of the raid would need to change to take them on (as per your own quote).

The quotes literally say that raid content won't be able to be repeated:
"It will be something that can not be repeatable in the exact same way from raid to raid..."
It's not just about randomness, it's about content dynamically changing as the world changes. Mobs and mob bosses will come and go as nodes rise and fall and as we defeat and deplete mobs in specific locations.

Azryil

OOOO are we getting another Dygz vs Noaani fight thread? I'll get popcorn.

unknown

This content has been removed.

Nagash

Azryil wrote: »

OOOO are we getting another Dygz vs Noaani fight thread? I'll get popcorn.

I will make dave get the drinks

Jahlon

While what Dygz is saying seems incorrect, he is half right.

There are some raids that are the result of triggered events. These raids will only be up for a limited time as they are the result of something that occurs in the world.

However, yes there are the more traditional system style dungeons and raids that are repeatable, but with that said, just because it is repeatable, it won't be exactly the same every time. You won't be getting the raids down to a "on-farm" status, as little changes in the world can mean little changes for the bosses.

For example, if you've been doing a particular raid and there are only 2 metropolis developed, and then when you go to do the raid a 3rd metro has developed, the bosses will have access to a new ability.

Also, if you have 5 metropolis in your world, and then one of the metros falls (say a military one) and it is replaced by an Economic one, the next time you run that raid, the bosses will have different abilities, as they draw their abilities not only by how many metros there are, but by which node types the metros are.

Xenantaya

Thanks everyone for your posts and information. Whenever I read about Ashes, I'm always impressed by its concepts. I just hope Intrepid can execute the concepts and turns them into reality!

A few more questions about the traditional, repeatable raids, as Jahlon describes them (and I understand that the abilities of mobs and bosses in the same raid can vary each time depending on the server's development or other events) to the extent anyone has any info about them:

1. Has Intrepid confirmed that all such raids will be open world without any instancing, as Kinthallis says? Or will they be instanced, or a mix of open world and instanced?

2. Once a raid spawns at one location, can it then despawn from that location based on some condition (time, boss defeats, etc.) and then respawn at a different location, as Dygz says? That could be one way to mitigate travel time issues and keep raids fresh if raids cycle through certain areas.

3. Can the "same" raid (again, understanding that a raid may vary based on events/conditions) spawn in multiple places in the world, which could mitigate travel time issues?

Noaani

Jahlon wrote: »

While what Dygz is saying seems incorrect, he is half right.

There are some raids that are the result of triggered events. These raids will only be up for a limited time as they are the result of something that occurs in the world.

However, yes there are the more traditional system style dungeons and raids that are repeatable, but with that said, just because it is repeatable, it won't be exactly the same every time. You won't be getting the raids down to a "on-farm" status, as little changes in the world can mean little changes for the bosses.

For example, if you've been doing a particular raid and there are only 2 metropolis developed, and then when you go to do the raid a 3rd metro has developed, the bosses will have access to a new ability.

Also, if you have 5 metropolis in your world, and then one of the metros falls (say a military one) and it is replaced by an Economic one, the next time you run that raid, the bosses will have different abilities, as they draw their abilities not only by how many metros there are, but by which node types the metros are.

Exactly this.

There will be "world event" raids that will be one off things - or perhaps respawning for a limited time during the event.

What Dygz seems to be trying to say is that because a boss has a small aspect of randomization to it, that raids won't be repeatable. When we know that this level of randomization will be so small that it won't even cause the raid to want to change it's constituent role buildup (ie, we know we won't need more healers), these randomized changes can only be minor.

There is also change based on node state, and it may well be that a raid changes based on all metropolis nodes on the server, but it may also only change based on the type of the nearest metropolis. We don't really know yet. What we do know in this regard is that for the most part, such changes will be rare, and so you can expect months of the same content unaffected by no changes, as nodes won't have changed.

So yeah, Dygz is wrong. Again.

He is taking minor randomization to raid content and misconstruing that in to a weapon to try and put raid-centric players off the game by making them think there won't be content they can plan on working on.

It is completely and utterly misleading, and he knows it.

Damokles

Azryil wrote: »

OOOO are we getting another Dygz vs Noaani fight thread? I'll get popcorn.

Am I the only one who imagines most escalating threads as a bar fight? Two people duking it out and suddenly a third comes from nowhere and smashes a stool on another ones head, and suddenly everythign catches fire, with people bashin on each other in blind rage, while some onlookers stand outside and watch it all go down? XD

Nagash

Damokles wrote: »

Azryil wrote: »

OOOO are we getting another Dygz vs Noaani fight thread? I'll get popcorn.

Am I the only one who imagines most escalating threads as a bar fight? Two people duking it out and suddenly a third comes from nowhere and smashes a stool on another ones head, and suddenly everythign catches fire, with people bashin on each other in blind rage, while some onlookers stand outside and watch it all go down? XD

I think of it more like pantomime at this point

Dygz

Damokles wrote: »

Am I the only one who imagines most escalating threads as a bar fight? Two people duking it out and suddenly a third comes from nowhere and smashes a stool on another ones head, and suddenly everythign catches fire, with people bashin on each other in blind rage, while some onlookers stand outside and watch it all go down? XD

All good as long as you have popcorn!

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