Dungeon Spawn Rate

I have a question about dungeon spawn rates. Sorry, new here. )
To my understanding, there will be non instance, seamless, dungeons.
How will it prevent players from camping a boss? Whats the spawn rate?
Thanks.

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Damokles

Okay here are a few facts about dungeons that we "know"(meaning that they mentioned these things once upon a time, everything is subject to change after all

)

There are 2 types of dungeons:
instanced dungeons, for solo and group questlines
Open world dungeons, facilitating multiple groups at once

Dungeons can range from small and linear to bigger, non linear dungeons.

Mobs will drop mainly crafting materials as opposed to trash items. Loot will be based on creature type, a wolf wont drop a breastplate for example.

New dungwons will spawn eepending on node level and development.
Already existing dungeons will adapt to new node developments.
Difficulty can increase/decrease.
Population will change (most likely referring to encountered mob types)
Drop tables will represent nearby node development (dungeons around a scientific node will drop more materials for example)

What we sadly do not know currently, but it would be awesome of you to remember this question for the next lifestream!
Spawnrates
PvP setting

It could be that all dungeons get automatically set as a free for all pvp zone, aka all peop,e inside a dungeon get flagged as pvp combatants.

I would say that other people will prevent other people from camping a boss. For example: a group camps a troll boss, which i need the materials from. I would call my friends/guild mates and force the other people to fall back. That in turn could escalate or not, depending on the other group.
There could also always be the possibility for... *ugh* diplomacy...

Caeryl

Some raids will be instanced, but from what’s been said that seems to mean there will be a separate space from the open world but still shared by everyone who enters it, not an instance for every group.

Of course maybe there will be ones with entirely separate instances. We just don’t have much to go on yet.

Dayuhan

For dungeons I hope they are locked to the group that spawns the instance - and that particular instance remain locked to that particular group until they leave (either by walking out, dieing, or logging out). This prevents boss camping - once the mob dies in the instance they do not respawn again - and dungeon camping, once they complete the instance they must leave and re-enter if they want a newly populated instance (and I would suggest a cool-down timer on this to encourage them to move on).

Damokles

Dayuhan wrote: »

For dungeons I hope they are locked to the group that spawns the instance - and that particular instance remain locked to that particular group until they leave (either by walking out, dieing, or logging out). This prevents boss camping - once the mob dies in the instance they do not respawn again - and dungeon camping, once they complete the instance they must leave and re-enter if they want a newly populated instance (and I would suggest a cool-down timer on this to encourage them to move on).

They could also just go with different zoning.

consultant

DCarp wrote: »

I have a question about dungeon spawn rates. Sorry, new here. )
To my understanding, there will be non instance, seamless, dungeons.
How will it prevent players from camping a boss? Whats the spawn rate?
Thanks.

Think areas outside dungeouns be designated as non pvp zones to stop ganking dugneouns entrances. Kind of like a safe zone. Not sure if Ashes of creation wants that type of pvp. But if you are on way to pve pvp most likely not on your mind

Jahlon

consultant wrote: »

DCarp wrote: »

I have a question about dungeon spawn rates. Sorry, new here. )
To my understanding, there will be non instance, seamless, dungeons.
How will it prevent players from camping a boss? Whats the spawn rate?
Thanks.

Think areas outside dungeouns be designated as non pvp zones to stop ganking dugneouns entrances. Kind of like a safe zone. Not sure if Ashes of creation wants that type of pvp. But if you are on way to pve pvp most likely not on your mind

This wont happen, but the corruption system is going to stop senseless ganking.

consultant

Well if there was no senseless ganking then there would be no corruption system. So corruption system requires ganking so there will still be ganking. corruption system is actually anti-cheapshot mechanism not anit-ganking. This topic covered in great detail in an archived post about corruption.

Or just to put it in real simple terms I gank then I die then go gank again. Plus there is somethign called gear and skill. Matter of fact players might see how many levels of corruption they can get before dying. Plus if you are a pvper well hey pvp deaths take away corruption but really does not matter if you die while pvping.

Real problem is dying while just pveing or gathering materials. Do not see benifit of pvping while gathering mats. Im a pvper so you can kill me as many times as you wnat will not have much impact be doiing me favor if I have stacks of corruption. Do not know what the corruption system does for people that dislike pvp. Option to die and be punished for not fighting back and having attacker turn red does not sound too exciting. But hear it works just fine in another game.

So you get ganked well by the time you go back to kill the person that killed you he or she might be green so then you go red.

Plus People that farm entrances to dungeouns usuall get in large groups. So might take turns ganking go red kill each toher to go green and gank again, You will get killed but not by the people that you ganked so...Corruption system is full of holes in my opinion and needs to be revamped. Rather have it removed.

My system is fool proof so...unless there is a really really large group that gaurds the entire area. Some people love to gank but to them it is pvp not ganking.

Songcaller

It's off topic a little but from what I know so far - the gankers will have corruption reduced or removed because when Levitation was a problem they didn't nerf Levitation, they removed Levitation. Due to the fact that PvP can't be toggled on or off means there will be people ganking, harrassing and pvping you until they can no longer find you. Because of the Dungeons systems you won't be protected from these gankers at all and most likely will run into them at said dungeons because they will be landmarks and easily identifiable. Thus it is debatable how much PvE will be done when all the focus is on PvP.

Edit: I can't wait.

Noaani

Neurath wrote: »

It's off topic a little but from what I know so far - the gankers will have corruption reduced or removed because when Levitation was a problem they didn't nerf Levitation, they removed Levitation. Due to the fact that PvP can't be toggled on or off means there will be people ganking, harrassing and pvping you until they can no longer find you. Because of the Dungeons systems you won't be protected from these gankers at all and most likely will run into them at said dungeons because they will be landmarks and easily identifiable. Thus it is debatable how much PvE will be done when all the focus is on PvP.

Corruption will be in Ashes as a control mechanism for PvP.

PvP by itself is a problem, not a game play option. It is only when PvP is controlled in some manner that it goes from being a problem to being a valid activity.

If the control for PvP became an issue in Ashes, they wouldn't remove that control. That is like saying a flow valve on a pipe is an issue, so just take it off. If you do that - just as if you removed corruption in Ashes - you are then left with a bigger problem.

If your flow restriction valve is broken, you turn the water off, put a new valve in, and then see if things are working as they should.

WIth Ashes, if corruption is broken, they don't remove corruption, they turn PvP off, replace corruption with another mechanic and then turn PvP back on to see if all is working as it should.

Songcaller

Thank you, Noanni. We meet again.

I've played with such systems before and they don't stop the PvP. The systems are often a reason why people choose to 'Roleplay' a Murderer or a Bandit, or a Highwayman. It's what happens when a ton of PvP players all get into a game together. I can appreciate that the attempt will be to stop this happening but rest assured there will be plenty of action for those of us who love to 'roleplay' hunters, bounty hunters and trackers.

Noaani

Neurath wrote: »

Thank you, Noanni. We meet again.

I've played with such systems before and they don't stop the PvP. The systems are often a reason why people choose to 'Roleplay' a Murderer or a Bandit, or a Highwayman. It's what happens when a ton of PvP players all get into a game together. I can appreciate that the attempt will be to stop this happening but rest assured there will be plenty of action for those of us who love to 'roleplay' hunters, bounty hunters and trackers.

The idea of corruption isn't to stop people killing other players - the fact that the bounty system will exist in Ashes says that the developers have a moral obligation to players to ensure there are players out there gaining corruption in order to feed those players that opted to put time and effort in to progressing in said bounty system.

The idea of the corruption system is to prevent wanton killing of players without reason, and to make it so that those that do want to roleplay the bandit or bad guy will forever be at a disadvantage.

That is the intent of the system. If that is not how it is functioning, it will be adjusted to function in that manner.

Songcaller

Some PvPers thrive on the disadvantages. The thrill of overcoming a challenge in PvP with a handicap in tow is like quicksilver to a bunch of Dwarves. I love Intrepid Studios and their concepts even if I gripe at the current state of Alpha Combat but in truth it is still Alpha and I have great hopes.

The game will cater to a vast player base if done right and some of the best PvP fights I've had across the years have been inside Dungeons and Raids. PvPing while tanking a Boss is something that adds so much depth and passion to a PvP fight and I can tell Steven has played MMOs like me because of his determination to give such thrills to the masses.

I don't aim to scare people off but the possibilities will always be there. It is the passion and the glory. It is the madness of a PvP world. At the beginning it will be chaos but order will form. This is why I backed Ashes of Creation (though my packages are once more disappeared from my.games or my.com). I'm still hyped for the potentials and with the added functions elsewhere Ashes does have the potential to be the best.

Noaani

Neurath wrote: »

Some PvPers thrive on the disadvantages. The thrill of overcoming a challenge in PvP with a handicap in tow is like quicksilver to a bunch of Dwarves. I love Intrepid Studios and their concepts even if I gripe at the current state of Alpha Combat but in truth it is still Alpha and I have great hopes.

The game will cater to a vast player base if done right and some of the best PvP fights I've had across the years have been inside Dungeons and Raids. PvPing while tanking a Boss is something that adds so much depth and passion to a PvP fight and I can tell Steven has played MMOs like me because of his determination to give such thrills to the masses.

I don't aim to scare people off but the possibilities will always be there. It is the passion and the glory. It is the madness of a PvP world. At the beginning it will be chaos but order will form. This is why I backed Ashes of Creation (though my packages are once more disappeared from my.games or my.com). I'm still hyped for the potentials and with the added functions elsewhere Ashes does have the potential to be the best.

Some people do enjoy that disadvantage, and as stated, Intrepid need to maintain an amount of corruption being gained in order to keep other systems in the game working.

Everyone on these forums knows that there will always be the chance in Ashes of being killed. If you're a smart ass in chat, chances are people will kill you on sight. They can, and they'll feel good about it.

That isn't what is being debated here. What I'm questioning is your statement that corruption will be reduced or removed for "gankers".

---

Raid encounters can turn in to good PvP fights, but raids where PvP is able to be encountered are invariably lackluster raids.

They are worth it as content due to the PvP they generate, but if you manage to get one such encounter without an enemy near by (something that will happen often in Ashes - with no fast travel), the encounters are basically loot pinatas.

Songcaller

Well, on the old forums I had a different name. In game my name will be reserved but it won't be Neurath. Unfortunately we have to use handles on the forums and I prefer this old name with which I did the greatest PvP deeds of old. The situation as it stands right now is that there are no toggles for PvP. Thus how the corruption system will be applied without PvP toggles is something of a mystery. Without toggles it means that people can kill without discrimination and thus is the definition of a Ganker. Only today in the Discord did they say there won't be toggles. So from my perspective right now, the corruption system remains a mystery and it is not clear how it will be applied because without toggles everyone is the same.

It's not my problem if people don't like old PvP veterans. It will be my problem to match my old prowess on a new platform. Hence why I dislike the Alpha Gameplay right now because the tools aren't up to scratch.

It is not easy being PvE focussed when they have a BR and all they interact with is the PvP crowd and the BR people. I can't be too negative because people get banned off these forums. So i prefer to be honest about old instances and the potential for Ashes. The issues will be present until Ashes of Creation releases because we can't assess the game except for a BR standalone which isn't the MMO. So until Alpha 1 and beyond we don't have all of the answers. Just the concepts. The old method they said was if you don't fight back but if you are jumped mid fight and damage is received by the ganker it's a free kill.

Noaani

Neurath wrote: »

Only today in the Discord did they say there won't be toggles.

I fail to see what toggles have to do with the corruption system.

Songcaller

I explained the situation. A Ganker will literally use anything they can to kill a person even if it means getting damaged when a target is in a fight and when the target isn't at full health. Then the person ganking who doesn't need you to be toggled or to be toggled themselves, can then progress to kill a person without gaining corruption. Unless the corruption system acknowledges accidental damage. It is unlikely accidental damage will be differentiated from willful damage. When it comes to gankers they are opportunists and will use any methods they can to subvert systems and justice. This is why I hunt gankers, highwaymen, bandits and anyone else flagged up by the needy.

There may not be a fast response because its not clear to me whether there will be global chat, regional chat or localised chat. There are so many variables that it is impossible for me to state how every interaction with a Ganker will go. Some gankers will literally want Corruption for the challenge. Not all gankers are bad at PvP.

I've always fought people of the same level as me or above. I've never kill lowbies unless I'm a lowbie too. I can only advise from a PvP perspective and what I have experienced on PvP servers where similar systems such as corruption have been used. Intrepid is not the first and won't be the last to initiate such a system. No system is infallible. It would be possible to report harassment in game though and each case will be individualized. Surely you understand that when someone is told not to do something they are more likely to do it. Its the whole risk, adrenaline, reward cycle. And the first time they do it they can get hooked.

Noaani

Neurath wrote: »

I explained the situation. A Ganker will literally use anything they can to kill a person even if it means getting damaged when a target is in a fight and when the target isn't at full health. Then the person ganking who doesn't need you to be toggled or to be toggled themselves, can then progress to kill a person without gaining corruption. Unless the corruption system acknowledges accidental damage. It is unlikely accidental damage will be differentiated from willful damage.

I'd like to read the quote from Discord, along with the context in which it was made.

This is because Intrepid have been very clear on the fact that accidental damage in PvP is not possible. The corruption system contains a flagging system within it, but players are not able to toggle between the different flags at will (which is my assumption as to what the quote would have been about).

The flagging system is a result of actions already taken, rather than intention of actions you want to take.

---

The different levels of chat are not really an issue in terms of response to a ganker - even if global chat isn't a thing, it is safe to assume that guild chat will be, and that is where the bulk of any response would come from. What is a more immediate factor is the lack of fast travel - you can't mount any form of response if those willing to help out are 15 minutes away.

Songcaller

Well I can't give you a screenshot of Discord because people flood Discord and had I known in advance I would have taken a screenshot. The response was in response to New World having a toggle system and we were told Ashes doesn't have such a system.

There may be fast travel if the nodes are upgraded to provide it. The game is so complex that taking snippets here and there doesn't even cover the potentials. The whole point is the fact that the game devs will develop the systems, the systems will have flaws and the game devs will adjust the systems.

It is true you may even get lost in Ashes of Creation. I can't even state how complex the game will be because we haven't had Alpha 1 yet. So it's all theory based on theory based on other MMOs which I tried to advise you in the healing thread. It is impossible to prevent ganking in a PvP world, We can only mitigate and respond accordingly. We aren't even sure we'll have access to a whole map - it's reliant on Cartography. So it is difficult for me to support the claims or refute the claims. I can only relay what I know.

Noaani

Neurath wrote: »

Well I can't give you a screenshot of Discord because people flood Discord and had I known in advance I would have taken a screenshot. The response was in response to New World having a toggle system and we were told Ashes doesn't have such a system.

Ashes doesn't have a toggle system for PvP, no.

I'm still not sure how that changes the understanding of the corruption system, or how it means players can deal accidental damage to other players though (let alone how that relates to gankers have corruptions reduced or removed), as that isn't a result of a toggle, but of a flag, and Ashes still has a flagging system.

There may be fast travel if the nodes are upgraded to provide it.

Well, it is only if you have an economic node at metropolis level that you have access to fast travel, and even then you need to be a citizen of that specific node to take full advantage of it.

Songcaller

Yes, there is a flagging system. Its all part of the same system. So i don't know the full system until i use the full system. You don't toggle the flags. There is no toggle to my knowledge. I think its a Science Node that does Fast Travel but as i said before it's all subject to change. We're in pre-alpha mostly and internal tests are only just Alpha. Yet when we've tested it we will be able to advise Intrepid on any improvements required, any problems found and where the systems are useful or not.

The whole point right now is to test and relay feedback. You can give feedback to them.

This is their statement on the matter:

The open world PvP flagging system is designed to deter people from griefing other players. Players can participate in open world PvP with one another without having to resort to murder. Players will gank other players, but the intention is for Ashes of Creation to not be a "gank box".

So even they say they can't prevent it 100% and it would be bad of me to tell you that you aren't going to be ganked. You may never see another player but sometimes you might. You might never be ganked but some people will. I've stated the limitations of the system and would work with Intrepid to fix any exploits, bugs or harassment. I learn new things about Ashes every day and even with my experience they shouldn't just listen to me.

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