Weapons unique to classes?

I was wondering what Intrepid’s stance is on unique weapons and possibly unconventional ones as well. Will we see Scythes for Necromancer? Playing cards for Charlatan?

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Wandering Mist

The game is currently being designed so that every class can use every weapon. The problem with unique weapons is that they need to have unique attack animations, which takes a lot of time and effort for little gain in development. That's why typically in games with lots of different weapons, you group them into categories with every weapon a category having the same animations.

yes, in an ideal world you'd want every weapon to be unique but this isn't realistic from a development standpoint.

Talents

Also at the moment, there aren't scythe weapons specifically, unfortunately.

Brolveth

I would like to see not Type but style or design specific to class. Such as spell book that emits speciall aura or meteor it summon is actually very big block of ice.
Or Spears that are actually Quartetstaff for Clerics. But instead of it being class weapon I would like to see it as uniqe stuff from side quest. Then weapon could have diffrent abilities that would help with balancing it

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Damokles

Noaani

Talents wrote: »

Also at the moment, there aren't scythe weapons specifically, unfortunately.

I don't think this is unfortunate at all. Scythes are rubbish at anything other than cutting down grass and grass-like plants.

The image of 'death' with a scythe is due to death being the harvester of souls, and the scythe being the tool best associated with harvesting. The fact that it is associated with this type of image doesn't make it a weapon at all - in fact, the sharpened edge of the blade of a scythe is facing the wielder, rather than facing a potential opponent.

Even if the opposing edge of the blade were to be sharpened, the way a scythe is held means the only way to swing it is in a small arc around the wielder, with the blade several inches off the ground. You are pulling it towards you more than anything, which means the person you mean to attack would have to be in melee range of you before you can begin your attack (an attack that would be at ankle height), and since it takes two hands to use a scythe, you are defenseless.

You would need to move the handles in order to make it possible to use any other motion with a scythe, but even then the fact that the blade is at a right(ish) angle from the body of the tool means it's use as a weapon will always be limited.

While all of these things could be altered to make a scythe somewhat useful in combat, the combined changes would see you left with something that would more closely resemble a more traditional polearm rather than a scythe.

Scythes in Ashes are best left to harvesting crops (somewhere I expect to see them used in Ashes), rather than attempting to find a way to add them as actual weapons.

Jahlon

Tsukasa wrote: »

Some weapons will be stronger for some classes.

And I assume and hope that this means some weapons will be equally effective for some classes.
For example: All metallic weapons except 1h sword & shield would work equally on a Fighter, but not spellbook, bow or staff.

Weapons will not be "stronger" for some classes.

Every class can use every weapon; but that doesn't mean every weapon is the best suited weapon for every class.

Talents

noaani wrote: »

Talents wrote: »

Also at the moment, there aren't scythe weapons specifically, unfortunately.

I don't think this is unfortunate at all. Scythes are rubbish at anything other than cutting down grass and grass-like plants.

The image of 'death' with a scythe is due to death being the harvester of souls, and the scythe being the tool best associated with harvesting. The fact that it is associated with this type of image doesn't make it a weapon at all - in fact, the sharpened edge of the blade of a scythe is facing the wielder, rather than facing a potential opponent.

Even if the opposing edge of the blade were to be sharpened, the way a scythe is held means the only way to swing it is in a small arc around the wielder, with the blade several inches off the ground. You are pulling it towards you more than anything, which means the person you mean to attack would have to be in melee range of you before you can begin your attack (an attack that would be at ankle height), and since it takes two hands to use a scythe, you are defenseless.

You would need to move the handles in order to make it possible to use any other motion with a scythe, but even then the fact that the blade is at a right(ish) angle from the body of the tool means it's use as a weapon will always be limited.

While all of these things could be altered to make a scythe somewhat useful in combat, the combined changes would see you left with something that would more closely resemble a more traditional polearm rather than a scythe.

Scythes in Ashes are best left to harvesting crops (somewhere I expect to see them used in Ashes), rather than attempting to find a way to add them as actual weapons.

It's a good thing that Ashes isn't based on real-life then otherwise we wouldn't have stuff like magic casters, buff/debuff classes, and people who use bows would only be able to have like 20 arrows at a time.

Noaani

Talents wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

Talents wrote: »

Also at the moment, there aren't scythe weapons specifically, unfortunately.

I don't think this is unfortunate at all. Scythes are rubbish at anything other than cutting down grass and grass-like plants.

The image of 'death' with a scythe is due to death being the harvester of souls, and the scythe being the tool best associated with harvesting. The fact that it is associated with this type of image doesn't make it a weapon at all - in fact, the sharpened edge of the blade of a scythe is facing the wielder, rather than facing a potential opponent.

Even if the opposing edge of the blade were to be sharpened, the way a scythe is held means the only way to swing it is in a small arc around the wielder, with the blade several inches off the ground. You are pulling it towards you more than anything, which means the person you mean to attack would have to be in melee range of you before you can begin your attack (an attack that would be at ankle height), and since it takes two hands to use a scythe, you are defenseless.

You would need to move the handles in order to make it possible to use any other motion with a scythe, but even then the fact that the blade is at a right(ish) angle from the body of the tool means it's use as a weapon will always be limited.

While all of these things could be altered to make a scythe somewhat useful in combat, the combined changes would see you left with something that would more closely resemble a more traditional polearm rather than a scythe.

Scythes in Ashes are best left to harvesting crops (somewhere I expect to see them used in Ashes), rather than attempting to find a way to add them as actual weapons.

It's a good thing that Ashes isn't based on real-life then otherwise we wouldn't have stuff like magic casters, buff/debuff classes, and people who use bows would only be able to have like 20 arrows at a time.

Oh I'm not necessarily talking about real life - I'm talking about in game.

How do you animate an attack with a scythe? Like, how is that even supposed to look?
Since it isn't an item that is suitable to attack another person with in real life, there is no way to logically work out the animations for it.

I mean, seriously, if you are holding a scythe, how do you then use that item to attack another player - but in a way where you are not altering the scythe to the point where it is no longer a scythe?

You cant push it in to a character, as that end is blunt. You wouldn't pull it in to a character, as then you are requiring them to get in to melee range before you can attack. You wouldn't swing it to try and stab them with the pointed end, as a step in literally any direction would foil that attack.

Now, a scythe could be used as a purely cosmetic variation of a casters staff, where it is not going to be used to physically attack another character. Doing this, it would simply use the animations from caster staff weapons, but look like a scythe.

This is about the only way it could ever be in the game from any perspective, as animations for a scythe as a melee weapon simply don't make sense - due to scythes not making sense as melee weapons.

Wandering Mist

noaani wrote: »

Talents wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

Talents wrote: »

Also at the moment, there aren't scythe weapons specifically, unfortunately.

I don't think this is unfortunate at all. Scythes are rubbish at anything other than cutting down grass and grass-like plants.

The image of 'death' with a scythe is due to death being the harvester of souls, and the scythe being the tool best associated with harvesting. The fact that it is associated with this type of image doesn't make it a weapon at all - in fact, the sharpened edge of the blade of a scythe is facing the wielder, rather than facing a potential opponent.

Even if the opposing edge of the blade were to be sharpened, the way a scythe is held means the only way to swing it is in a small arc around the wielder, with the blade several inches off the ground. You are pulling it towards you more than anything, which means the person you mean to attack would have to be in melee range of you before you can begin your attack (an attack that would be at ankle height), and since it takes two hands to use a scythe, you are defenseless.

You would need to move the handles in order to make it possible to use any other motion with a scythe, but even then the fact that the blade is at a right(ish) angle from the body of the tool means it's use as a weapon will always be limited.

While all of these things could be altered to make a scythe somewhat useful in combat, the combined changes would see you left with something that would more closely resemble a more traditional polearm rather than a scythe.

Scythes in Ashes are best left to harvesting crops (somewhere I expect to see them used in Ashes), rather than attempting to find a way to add them as actual weapons.

It's a good thing that Ashes isn't based on real-life then otherwise we wouldn't have stuff like magic casters, buff/debuff classes, and people who use bows would only be able to have like 20 arrows at a time.

Oh I'm not necessarily talking about real life - I'm talking about in game.

How do you animate an attack with a scythe? Like, how is that even supposed to look?
Since it isn't an item that is suitable to attack another person with in real life, there is no way to logically work out the animations for it.

Clearly you've never faced Sister Friede from Dark Souls 3.....

latest?cb=20161027173902

To be honest, the weapon she uses is the least of her problem when it comes to realism. There is no way she should be able to move the way she does wearing those clothes. Luckily this is a fantasy game so they get a pass

Noaani

Wandering Mist wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

Talents wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

Talents wrote: »

Also at the moment, there aren't scythe weapons specifically, unfortunately.

I don't think this is unfortunate at all. Scythes are rubbish at anything other than cutting down grass and grass-like plants.

The image of 'death' with a scythe is due to death being the harvester of souls, and the scythe being the tool best associated with harvesting. The fact that it is associated with this type of image doesn't make it a weapon at all - in fact, the sharpened edge of the blade of a scythe is facing the wielder, rather than facing a potential opponent.

Even if the opposing edge of the blade were to be sharpened, the way a scythe is held means the only way to swing it is in a small arc around the wielder, with the blade several inches off the ground. You are pulling it towards you more than anything, which means the person you mean to attack would have to be in melee range of you before you can begin your attack (an attack that would be at ankle height), and since it takes two hands to use a scythe, you are defenseless.

You would need to move the handles in order to make it possible to use any other motion with a scythe, but even then the fact that the blade is at a right(ish) angle from the body of the tool means it's use as a weapon will always be limited.

While all of these things could be altered to make a scythe somewhat useful in combat, the combined changes would see you left with something that would more closely resemble a more traditional polearm rather than a scythe.

Scythes in Ashes are best left to harvesting crops (somewhere I expect to see them used in Ashes), rather than attempting to find a way to add them as actual weapons.

It's a good thing that Ashes isn't based on real-life then otherwise we wouldn't have stuff like magic casters, buff/debuff classes, and people who use bows would only be able to have like 20 arrows at a time.

Oh I'm not necessarily talking about real life - I'm talking about in game.

How do you animate an attack with a scythe? Like, how is that even supposed to look?
Since it isn't an item that is suitable to attack another person with in real life, there is no way to logically work out the animations for it.

Clearly you've never faced Sister Friede from Dark Souls 3.....

While that may look a little like a scythe, it isn't.

The blade appears to be sharpened on the wrong side for a start, and the pole is both too long, and too straight. It also doesn't have handles that a scythe should have, but I wouldn't necessarily consider these to be an essential aspect of a scythe.

The angle the blade is attached to the pole is also wrong. If the wielder is holding the tool correctly, the blade should be perpindicular with the ground - it is usually around 60° whereas the one above seems to be no more than 10°.

If an implement is physically incapable of harvesting wheat in the manner one would use a scythe to harvet wheat, then one should not call that implement a scythe.

That is some form of polearm that looks like little like a scythe (intentionally, no doubt), but is not a scythe at all. I would imagine that it would be unwieldly and ineffective in actual combat as well.

Wandering Mist

noaani wrote: »

Wandering Mist wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

Talents wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

Talents wrote: »

Also at the moment, there aren't scythe weapons specifically, unfortunately.

I don't think this is unfortunate at all. Scythes are rubbish at anything other than cutting down grass and grass-like plants.

The image of 'death' with a scythe is due to death being the harvester of souls, and the scythe being the tool best associated with harvesting. The fact that it is associated with this type of image doesn't make it a weapon at all - in fact, the sharpened edge of the blade of a scythe is facing the wielder, rather than facing a potential opponent.

Even if the opposing edge of the blade were to be sharpened, the way a scythe is held means the only way to swing it is in a small arc around the wielder, with the blade several inches off the ground. You are pulling it towards you more than anything, which means the person you mean to attack would have to be in melee range of you before you can begin your attack (an attack that would be at ankle height), and since it takes two hands to use a scythe, you are defenseless.

You would need to move the handles in order to make it possible to use any other motion with a scythe, but even then the fact that the blade is at a right(ish) angle from the body of the tool means it's use as a weapon will always be limited.

While all of these things could be altered to make a scythe somewhat useful in combat, the combined changes would see you left with something that would more closely resemble a more traditional polearm rather than a scythe.

Scythes in Ashes are best left to harvesting crops (somewhere I expect to see them used in Ashes), rather than attempting to find a way to add them as actual weapons.

It's a good thing that Ashes isn't based on real-life then otherwise we wouldn't have stuff like magic casters, buff/debuff classes, and people who use bows would only be able to have like 20 arrows at a time.

Oh I'm not necessarily talking about real life - I'm talking about in game.

How do you animate an attack with a scythe? Like, how is that even supposed to look?
Since it isn't an item that is suitable to attack another person with in real life, there is no way to logically work out the animations for it.

Clearly you've never faced Sister Friede from Dark Souls 3.....

While that may look a little like a scythe, it isn't.

The blade appears to be sharpened on the wrong side for a start, and the pole is both too long, and too straight. It also doesn't have handles that a scythe should have, but I wouldn't necessarily consider these to be an essential aspect of a scythe.

The angle the blade is attached to the pole is also wrong. If the wielder is holding the tool correctly, the blade should be perpindicular with the ground - it is usually around 60° whereas the one above seems to be no more than 10°.

If an implement is physically incapable of harvesting wheat in the manner one would use a scythe to harvet wheat, then one should not call that implement a scythe.

That is some form of polearm that looks like little like a scythe (intentionally, no doubt), but is not a scythe at all. I would imagine that it would be unwieldly and ineffective in actual combat as well.

Well now you're just splitting hairs and arguing semantics. Ask your average person what that weapon is and the majority of them will tell you that that is a scythe, regardless of whether or not it is effective in actually harvesting crops.

Noaani

Wandering Mist wrote: »

Well now you're just splitting hairs and arguing semantics. Ask your average person what that weapon is and the majority of them will tell you that that is a scythe, regardless of whether or not it is effective in actually harvesting crops.

That may be the case.

But all that means is the majority will be wrong.

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