When someone has feedback, can we stop yelling at them that it's pre-alpha?

Intrepid is not going to go cry in a corner just because someone on the forums said that the combat doesn't look fluid. Even if Intrepid knows about the issue, it's within the rights of everyone to just say what they think, no need to be their knight in shining armor. Also, (for obvious reasons) there are a lot of new people that just found out about the game and are giving Intrepid the same feedback the older ashes community gave some time ago, that's also ok, sometimes it's good to repeat the same feedback.

Maybe instead of being a piece of shit just tell them in the comments "Yeah I think they know." or something like that, jesus guys. btw, I think people understand the fact that the game is in pre-alpha but maybe, just maybe, the reason there is a pre-alpha is so they can get some of this feedback. You will obviously have people that will say stuff like: "This game looks like shit." yell at them that it's in pre-alpha all you want but not the people that are just saying something looks clunky or whatever, give them a fucking break.https://youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

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Leiloni

I agree and something I've seen a lot both here and on the Discord, is any time someone posts criticism or concern, they're met with a horde of fans telling them the system in question is perfect and they love the idea, trying to shut the person down and avoid all useful discussion. The game is in testing for a reason, and soon to be NDA free at that. In order for it to be the best it can be we need to have these types of discussions. Games change as they are developed and systems get iterated upon. I'm literally seeing people defend ideas in this game that were widely hated in others and vice versa, so I think it's for the best if we all let people have open discussions instead of trying to shut people down. If a system is as great as you think it is, that will be seen in testing and in public opinion and it will not change, so you have nothing to fear.

Lafi

so i chat on these forums a fair bit, especially with the new people from a range of communities coming in to join us.
the only time i've seen your point OP, is when people talk about classes, combat or things like animations. in which the reply of 'its pre-alpha' is the correct answer to give. simple as that.

please link where its being done outside of these scenarios. i just haven't seen it.

Leiloni

Lafi wrote: »

so i chat on these forums a fair bit, especially with the new people from a range of communities coming in to join us.
the only time i've seen your point OP, is when people talk about classes, combat or things like animations. in which the reply of 'its pre-alpha' is the correct answer to give. simple as that.

please link where its being done outside of these scenarios. i just haven't seen it.

You're kind of proving his point. He's asking people to be nicer and in response you're being oddly combative.

Wandering Mist

Leiloni wrote: »

Lafi wrote: »

so i chat on these forums a fair bit, especially with the new people from a range of communities coming in to join us.
the only time i've seen your point OP, is when people talk about classes, combat or things like animations. in which the reply of 'its pre-alpha' is the correct answer to give. simple as that.

please link where its being done outside of these scenarios. i just haven't seen it.

You're kind of proving his point. He's asking people to be nicer and in response you're being oddly combative.

So, saying to someone "it's pre-alpha" is not being nice? I don't understand your logic at all there, sorry.

Leiloni

Wandering Mist wrote: »

Leiloni wrote: »

Lafi wrote: »

so i chat on these forums a fair bit, especially with the new people from a range of communities coming in to join us.
the only time i've seen your point OP, is when people talk about classes, combat or things like animations. in which the reply of 'its pre-alpha' is the correct answer to give. simple as that.

please link where its being done outside of these scenarios. i just haven't seen it.

You're kind of proving his point. He's asking people to be nicer and in response you're being oddly combative.

So, saying to someone "it's pre-alpha" is not being nice? I don't understand your logic at all there, sorry.

It's dismissive.

Wandering Mist

Leiloni wrote: »

Wandering Mist wrote: »

Leiloni wrote: »

Lafi wrote: »

so i chat on these forums a fair bit, especially with the new people from a range of communities coming in to join us.
the only time i've seen your point OP, is when people talk about classes, combat or things like animations. in which the reply of 'its pre-alpha' is the correct answer to give. simple as that.

please link where its being done outside of these scenarios. i just haven't seen it.

You're kind of proving his point. He's asking people to be nicer and in response you're being oddly combative.

So, saying to someone "it's pre-alpha" is not being nice? I don't understand your logic at all there, sorry.

It's dismissive.

Ah so you want us to pander to these people? To tell them that their "feedback" is valid and good when they are ignorant about how games development works? Especially when they use that ignorance as their basis for dismissing the game? I've honestly lost count of the number of people I've seen (on various youtube comments, forum threads and discord channels) who have said something along the lines of "this game looks like crap, it's going to fail" blah blah blah.

Lafi

Leiloni wrote: »

Wandering Mist wrote: »

Leiloni wrote: »

Lafi wrote: »

so i chat on these forums a fair bit, especially with the new people from a range of communities coming in to join us.
the only time i've seen your point OP, is when people talk about classes, combat or things like animations. in which the reply of 'its pre-alpha' is the correct answer to give. simple as that.

please link where its being done outside of these scenarios. i just haven't seen it.

You're kind of proving his point. He's asking people to be nicer and in response you're being oddly combative.

So, saying to someone "it's pre-alpha" is not being nice? I don't understand your logic at all there, sorry.

It's dismissive.

honestly i wrote a really long reply but i can't tell if you're just baiting.
Wandering Mist is right. its literally about perspective. offering "this is how something should be done, change your shit now" feedback to a pre-alpha title is literally deserving of being dismissed.

thanks for listening to my ted talk

Jamation

Like others have said the context of the conversation usually matters for those replies. Many times reminding someone that the development is in pre-alpha is a valid reply as many people might not have the information or the information may change later into development. But if everyone replaced "It's in Pre-Alpha" to "Yeah I think they know" then that doesn't solve the initial complaint as you're just changing one quote for another.

Lafi

Jamation wrote: »

Like others have said the context of the conversation usually matters for those replies. Many times reminding someone that the development is in pre-alpha is a valid reply as many people might not have the information or the information may change later into development. But if everyone replaced "It's in Pre-Alpha" to "Yeah I think they know" then that doesn't solve the initial complaint as you're just changing one quote for another.

very true, however i've been around the forums and reddit before the influx of new community members, havem't seen it once. nor have i been linked anything as proof either.

Jamation

Lafi wrote: »

very true, however i've been around the forums and reddit before the influx of new community members, havem't seen it once. nor have i been linked anything as proof either.

Ah sorry, I don't recognize your username so can't remember if we've been on similar threads. I've seen it maybe a handful of times where people have commented about the development state when it wasn't necessary, but usually they were fairly new to the community, or at least not the usual information gurus, as far as I could tell.

Also, I doubt anyone is going to waste time trudging through the forums to find a link for an example for something like this.

BlackBrony

Haven't seen negative comments, but it's pre alpha it's the correct answer.
The long one is like "they're working on the core system". But in all honestly, there's plenty of information out there, problem is people are lazy and can't find themselves looking for an answer on the web.

Also, there's people giving feedback like "no open world pvp, that's unfair", and they have no idea what the game is about.

phdmonster

Depends on the feedback.
There is feedback - meaning constructive feedback/criticism.
And there is stupid.

One provides something valuable and the other.. doesn't.

Hartwell

I think it's better to say that things will be tested in alpha or beta than to say it's pre-alpha. I don't think a lot of people understand what the different stages of development are for, so telling them the stage where they might see change helps. Alpha is used to develop systems. Beta is used to refine the game.

You don't need to refine animations in pre-alpha when other things, such as swimming, could use animations for testing. I kind of get the frustration. It might be good to say that we'll get around to providing that kind feedback in beta or late alpha.

Nodoff

Wandering Mist wrote: »

Ah so you want us to pander to these people? To tell them that their "feedback" is valid and good when they are ignorant about how games development works? Especially when they use that ignorance as their basis for dismissing the game? I've honestly lost count of the number of people I've seen (on various youtube comments, forum threads and discord channels) who have said something along the lines of "this game looks like crap, it's going to fail" blah blah blah.

Lafi wrote: »

so i chat on these forums a fair bit, especially with the new people from a range of communities coming in to join us.
the only time i've seen your point OP, is when people talk about classes, combat or things like animations. in which the reply of 'its pre-alpha' is the correct answer to give. simple as that.

please link where its being done outside of these scenarios. i just haven't seen it.

All of this. That is all.

Caeryl

There’s a difference between “Hey, this combat looks unpolished and too floaty. I’d like to see more visual feedback and weight to my hits.”

And

“This art style looks ‘aisan’ and cartoony. It sucks.”

Most people will listen to the first type of feedback, most people rightly see the second type as whining

Diamaht

Some folks want the game to succeed so badly that a criticism will be seen as an attack, and will be responded to in kind. You really can't take it personally, it has nothing to do with you.

For example if someone posts that they don't like character animations, it will strike a fear in some that the game won't be liked or successful. They retaliate by "defending" the game. Not sure there is much to be done about it, but there are communities where feedback gets buried by this form of insecurity. Not sure I've seen it to that degree here but the OP's concern is valid.

Wandering Mist

diamaht wrote: »

Some folks want the game to succeed so badly that a criticism will be seen as an attack, and will be responded to in kind. You really can't take it personally, it has nothing to do with you.

For example if someone posts that they don't like character animations, it will strike a fear in some that the game won't be liked or successful. They retaliate by "defending" the game. Not sure there is much to be done about it, but there are communities where feedback gets buried by this form of insecurity. Not sure I've seen it to that degree here but the OP's concern is valid.

For some things I agree with you, but when someone says "the animations look stiff" or "the graphics are terrible", that is nothing more than whining born from ignorance.

Atama

If someone says “the graphics have issues”, if the response is that it’s still early in development, I don’t see that as being defensive. In no way does that response refute the statement that there are graphical issues, but rather it acknowledges the problem while also reminding people that it should improve. It’s also not discouraging that feedback because clearly Intrepid would like to know what people want to see improved.

If the game is late in development, and the graphics still have issues, then it’s time to sharpen the pitchforks and light the torches.

All that being said, if someone explicitly says “the game looks awful and it will fail, you are all stupid for supporting it” then they are trolls worthy of derision. If someone has given honest input about some things they’d like to see changed, and the response is “it’s early in development stupid, stop whining” then they are d-bags that should be called out for it.

I discourage anyone from extrapolating such things when they aren’t explicit though. Not all criticism is whining or trolling, and not everyone who points out the development status is being insulting or dismissive. Again, not unless it’s explicit.

Nagash

Leiloni wrote: »

Wandering Mist wrote: »

Leiloni wrote: »

Lafi wrote: »

so i chat on these forums a fair bit, especially with the new people from a range of communities coming in to join us.
the only time i've seen your point OP, is when people talk about classes, combat or things like animations. in which the reply of 'its pre-alpha' is the correct answer to give. simple as that.

please link where its being done outside of these scenarios. i just haven't seen it.

You're kind of proving his point. He's asking people to be nicer and in response you're being oddly combative.

So, saying to someone "it's pre-alpha" is not being nice? I don't understand your logic at all there, sorry.

It's dismissive.

It's stating the facts

Diamaht

Wandering Mist wrote: »

diamaht wrote: »

Some folks want the game to succeed so badly that a criticism will be seen as an attack, and will be responded to in kind. You really can't take it personally, it has nothing to do with you.

For example if someone posts that they don't like character animations, it will strike a fear in some that the game won't be liked or successful. They retaliate by "defending" the game. Not sure there is much to be done about it, but there are communities where feedback gets buried by this form of insecurity. Not sure I've seen it to that degree here but the OP's concern is valid.

For some things I agree with you, but when someone says "the animations look stiff" or "the graphics are terrible", that is nothing more than whining born from ignorance.

This is really the point right? Labeling the feedback as "whining" and calling people "ignorant" are adopting an attacking stance. You need to ask yourself why it's necessary, stop taking this personally. If nothing else, comments like that are good feedback for the devs. If they improve on these things the game gets better. Everyone wins.

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