We need good bad guys, a plea for a solid bounty hunter system ^-^

Hi I'll start by saying I just spent a good couple days catching up on Ashes of creation after being away for a year or so, and i am absolutely blown away. The depth and the careful thought that is being put into the game's systems gives me the good feels and reassures me that Ashes is a new breed. My only plea is to not too harshly disincentivize criminals. One of my previous favorite mmos was Archeage which had a crime system that was recently changed to be more punishing. Before, people were cautious about their crime points, but now they are overly cautious, many have stopped even bothering stealing peoples goods. The feeling of risk and reward are hardly present anymore because no one wants a full day of jailtime. The Bounty Hunter system looks like a fresh take on a crime system and i like that justice is placed in the hands of the community. I believe risk and reward should be present on both sides however. Some suggestions.

1) Bounty Hunters who are killed by Corrupted players during the bounty hunt should be penalized somehow(small loss of gear 1 or 2 pieces, and/ or loss of gold) this creates a risk for the bounty hunters and it becomes a more niche playstyle, great bounty hunters will rise to the top and develop identity

2) Since there is a risk to Bounty Hunt, it should be rewarding. Either an Npc can give a set amount of gold or items on a successful bounty(boring), or the community can pitch in gold to posted bounties of truly loathed criminals to make it more appealing to bounty hunters(exciting)

3) I'm hoping corrupted players wouldn't drop a full gearset on death, 3-4 pieces seems reasonable however

4) Griefing lowbies should be a bannable offence, just kidding, but there should be harsh crime points for killing low levels and i mean harsh, a level 50 pking a lvl 49 i have no problem with tho.

5) Corrupted players only drop gear on a bounty hunter kill

We need good bad guys, they create fun friction in mmos and add an additional playstyle path to the game for those who choose it. Too heavily punishing these players will lead to them to opt out of that playstyle because its not worth the risk. Then we have a shortage of corrupties and an oversupply of valiant warriors who would never try to steal my stuff.

So I could only come up with 5 points to add to the system and some of those are intertwined, which goes to show how well thought out these systems already are. I am so impressed by the direction of this game. You guys have done amazing work. *sending good vibes and lotsa love* i cannot wait to play ur badass game ^-^

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Comments

FuryBladeborne

The corruption system is intended to stop people from PK many others or griefing someone. It is not a reward system (such as being able to collect equipped gear from bounty hunters). It is specifically a deterrent. It is unlikely to be turned into a reward system or have the risks reduced (such as only bounty hunters can cause equipped gear to drop).

If anything, the penalties may become more severe if the system does not deter enough people.

2for4Sausag3ggMcMuff

I don't think the system should reward corrupted players through looting fallen bounty hunters gear, but I do believe a risk to bounty hunters will create a barrier to entry so instead of having 1000 people willing to bounty hunt, u now have 100.

The world is supposed to feel dangerous I imagine, if there's no threat of my goods being stolen solely because people don't want to be punished, many organic PvP interactions will never take place that would've otherwise.

Caeryl

2for4Sausag3ggMcMuff wrote: »

I don't think the system should reward corrupted players through looting fallen bounty hunters gear, but I do believe a risk to bounty hunters will create a barrier to entry so instead of having 1000 people willing to bounty hunt, u now have 100.

The world is supposed to feel dangerous I imagine, if there's no threat of my goods being stolen solely because people don't want to be punished, many organic PvP interactions will never take place that would've otherwise.

There cannot be any reward for corruption if the system is to function as a deterrent, which is the intent and full reason why it is so punishing. The devs do not want players to have any benefit from being corrupted

2for4Sausag3ggMcMuff

@Caeryl, yes absolutely; I guess what I'm trying to articulate is the desire for a system that allows corrupted players to carve out their own place in the community while remaining thoroughly ostracized and punished, if there's no corrupted players to hunt because the system is tilted too much in favor of non corruption, bounty hunters will have no bounties to hunt. An in game system will rarely be used because the deterrent is too strong.

Caeryl

2for4Sausag3ggMcMuff wrote: »

@/Caeryl, yes absolutely; I guess what I'm trying to articulate is the desire for a system that allows corrupted players to carve out their own place in the community while remaining thoroughly ostracized and punished, if there's no corrupted players to hunt because the system is tilted too much in favor of non corruption, bounty hunters will have no bounties to hunt. An in game system will rarely be used because the deterrent is too strong.

The game should in no way enable any aspect of corruption as a playstyle. It isn’t a niche, and it’s not an alternate way of play, corruption is a punishment.

If you want a corruption friendly area, the players themselves have to make it. The game cannot and should not create any safe spaces for people who have chosen to gain corruption if it wants to have that system be an actual deterrent to griefers.

IllusionTokomi

As others have said, there appears to be a misunderstanding surrounding "Corrupt" players. Not necessarily by you, OP. Maybe by you but certainly by others. Corruption is a black spot, a Scarlet Letter, a brand, a societal mark of shame. It has never been communicated to me that this is anything other than that.

Adding a game-play style or mechanic, relaxing sanctions, and assuredly adding a reward is counter to its foundational principle.

leamese

Liking idea nr. 2, where perhaps a 'Wanted' sign is displayed in town Square and people can pitch in money (in a pool) to intensivive punt hunters

Jexz

I think the negative stats to corrupted players is over the top. I imagine there will be more bounty hunters than corrupted players. If bounty hunters can see corrupted players on the map that in it's self is a big penalty.

But I am unaware of the capacity of corrupted players party to intervene. My assumption is bounty hunters will be flagged purple so anyone grouped with the corrupted player will be able to defend them with out penalty.

2for4Sausag3ggMcMuff

IllusionTokomi wrote: »

As others have said, there appears to be a misunderstanding surrounding "Corrupt" players. Not necessarily by you, OP. Maybe by you but certainly by others. Corruption is a black spot, a Scarlet Letter, a brand, a societal mark of shame. It has never been communicated to me that this is anything other than that.

Adding a game-play style or mechanic, relaxing sanctions, and assuredly adding a reward is counter to its foundational principle.

the societal mark of shame is real and I'm totally for it, criminals should be hunted, should be hated, should be punished by in game systems, should be punished by players. If the system makes in game life unliveable and unrewarding for criminals however, no one will become a criminal, and the complex system means nothing because you could've saved time and given caravans an immunity buff to get a similar result

Beateerr

There will definitely be pk guilds which will gank ppl around the map. And just because economic is very important in the game people will just naturally make enemies, like they do irl. And for the 3) they drop only 1 piece of equipment

SSRogue

2for4Sausag3ggMcMuff wrote: »

IllusionTokomi wrote: »

As others have said, there appears to be a misunderstanding surrounding "Corrupt" players. Not necessarily by you, OP. Maybe by you but certainly by others. Corruption is a black spot, a Scarlet Letter, a brand, a societal mark of shame. It has never been communicated to me that this is anything other than that.

Adding a game-play style or mechanic, relaxing sanctions, and assuredly adding a reward is counter to its foundational principle.

the societal mark of shame is real and I'm totally for it, criminals should be hunted, should be hated, should be punished by in game systems, should be punished by players. If the system makes in game life unliveable and unrewarding for criminals however, no one will become a criminal, and the complex system means nothing because you could've saved time and given caravans an immunity buff to get a similar result

So many people who comment on these threads who are so clearly anti pvp with "NEVER REWARD CORRUPTION" are so jaded by the potential. The devs came up with a bounty system, so they reward players for hunting corrupted players yet corrupted players can defend themselves without gaining more corruption thus creating a new way to play with in game mechanics designed as intended. With so many different ways to play this game, lets constructively discuss expanding this system. You now have corrupted guy vs bounty hunter, this is a system in-game, now less flush this out. Do not read any further if you are not going to be corrupted or if you or not going to be a bounty hunter because this is not affecting you in any way. Yes do not reward or condone the killing of unwilling participants but let's talk about a bounty hunter vs a corrupted player who did not pk low-level unwilling participants.

You have a bounty system that can reward good bounty hunters, well that can't exist unless you have famous outlaws right? Again, this is for a conversation on how to make this system work and not for people not interested in it.

2for4Sausag3ggMcMuff

Beateerr wrote: »

There will definitely be pk guilds which will gank ppl around the map. And just because economic is very important in the game people will just naturally make enemies, like they do irl. And for the 3) they drop only 1 piece of equipment

I've been bad b4, that punishment is too light hehe

2for4Sausag3ggMcMuff

Only corrupted players should be allowed to enter Thieve's guild! Yeah I said it.

Over1ander

2for4Sausag3ggMcMuff wrote: »

1) Bounty Hunters who are killed by Corrupted players during the bounty hunt should be penalized somehow(small loss of gear 1 or 2 pieces, and/ or loss of gold) this creates a risk for the bounty hunters and it becomes a more niche playstyle, great bounty hunters will rise to the top and develop identity

2) Since there is a risk to Bounty Hunt, it should be rewarding. Either an Npc can give a set amount of gold or items on a successful bounty(boring), or the community can pitch in gold to posted bounties of truly loathed criminals to make it more appealing to bounty hunters(exciting)

3) I'm hoping corrupted players wouldn't drop a full gearset on death, 3-4 pieces seems reasonable however

4) Griefing lowbies should be a bannable offence, just kidding, but there should be harsh crime points for killing low levels and i mean harsh, a level 50 pking a lvl 49 i have no problem with tho.

5) Corrupted players only drop gear on a bounty hunter kill

Hmmmm,

1. Bounty Hunters should not share the same Risks as corrupted players, maybe a slap on the wrist or reduced bounty if killed by your bounty.

2. With the system expressed by AoC in mind there won't be a risk for the hunters, just a way to keep the corrupted in their place. So High rewards shouldn't be a thing either.

3. Corrupted players will "Maybe" drop a piece on death I can imagine a 20% chance to drop a piece at near max corruption, just due to the amount of people on a server (10k).

4. Sure, take level and gearscore into consideration when flagging on characters and scale the corruption points based on how much of a bully one is.

5. On the fence with this one, Maybe have a reduced chance to drop gear depending on how many people are involved with your death. Each person that hits you, heals the person that hits you, buffs the person, etc. should be taken into account if possible. And just reduced the chance to drop gear down to 1% if applicable.

Maybe a 50% chance to drop gear on death by bounty hunter, 20% by a random solo player, which can be reduced down to 1% if more players are added to the equation.

2for4Sausag3ggMcMuff

@Over1ander I like ur number 5

SSRogue

Over1ander wrote: »

Hmmmm,

1. Bounty Hunters should not share the same Risks as corrupted players, maybe a slap on the wrist or reduced bounty if killed by your bounty.

2. With the system expressed by AoC in mind there won't be a risk for the hunters, just a way to keep the corrupted in their place. So High rewards shouldn't be a thing either.

3. Corrupted players will "Maybe" drop a piece on death I can imagine a 20% chance to drop a piece at near max corruption, just due to the amount of people on a server (10k).

4. Sure, take level and gearscore into consideration when flagging on characters and scale the corruption points based on how much of a bully one is.

5. On the fence with this one, Maybe have a reduced chance to drop gear depending on how many people are involved with your death. Each person that hits you, heals the person that hits you, buffs the person, etc. should be taken into account if possible. And just reduced the chance to drop gear down to 1% if applicable.

Maybe a 50% chance to drop gear on death by a bounty hunter, 20% by a random solo player, which can be reduced down to 1% if more players are added to the equation.

I think bounty hunting should be promoted more and rewarded. If a player goes corrupted there is no fun in fighting unwilling people we want to fight small scale wars like an old west bank heist crew vs a sheriff and his posse. If a bounty hunter wanted to go up against someone willingly being corrupted then they should be rewarded because that person will fight back because they can and they must defend themselves. I also believe that in this one situation as a corrupted person vs a bounty hunter then the corrupted person who chooses to fight back and fend off several bounty attempts should be rewarded with something ffs. It's a built-in mechanic that allows a situation for consensual pvp between a known bad guy and a known good guy. The more bounty hunters a bad guy kills, he should have a higher price on his head and maybe if he survives for x amount of attempts maybe give him a title or a little pet or something. Why not explore this system between the two consensual participants while still heavily penalizing any griefing or big level gap pking. U can have honest bad guys who aren't running the game for people that is outside of big-scale guild war and city raids.

Over1ander

@SSRogue

I hard disagree because the player base will be too high, the only situations what you suggesting with the bank heist vs sheriff only works in situations where RP rules are in place, GTA RP servers comes to mind. The bounty system will only be a way for players to self regulate themselves without constant attention from GM's. When you start putting things like Good vs Bad it just sounds like faction PvP.

Also bounty hunters aren't good guys, they're bounty hunters, they hunt corrupted for bounties not justice. There's no honest bad guys if you initiate an attack in cold blood for financial gain or emotional gain you are corrupted.

SSRogue wrote: »

If a bounty hunter wanted to go up against someone willingly being corrupted then they should be rewarded because that person will fight back because they can and they must defend themselves. I also believe that in this one situation as a corrupted person vs a bounty hunter then the corrupted person who chooses to fight back and fend off several bounty attempts should be rewarded with something ffs.

You're contradicting yourself here with "they can and they must defend themselves" and "the corrupted person who chooses to fight back", can't have both.

SSRogue

Over1ander wrote: »

@SSRogue

I hard disagree because the player base will be too high

You have every right to disagree, the game isn't out and isn't finished. We will truly never know unless we get to test it out, therefore it is all just discussion of which ideas are born.

Over1ander wrote: »

@SSRogue

You're contradicting yourself here with "they can and they must defend themselves" and "the corrupted person who chooses to fight back", can't have both.

No, not really... Player A (corrupted) and Player B (bounty hunter). Player B is attacking player A because it is an allowed system and is promoted for B to hunt A, but player A can freely attack B with no further penality, therefore, is incentivized to do so if he/she desires to obtain said title for being a corrupted player or just wants to stay corrupted just enough to be a known villain character but not a dick that keeps killing innocents and gets heavily corrupted. In this situation, everything is already in the game as an actual option besides my hypothetical title reword for a bad guy questline that asks you to do x things to prove you are bad. So by me saying that Player A can and should defend themselves is not a contradiction. It is all relative to the situation. If player A accidentally became corrupted they would most likely run from player B or just let player B kill them. In this situation player A wants player B to come around and wants to fight them and enjoys it and player B loved being able to hunt player A and they go back and forth and it becomes a fun cat and mouse game not messing with anyone else and if player A kills player B enough times then he is just better.

3am

I can 100% attest to the fact that no matter what you put in people's way they will still go corrupt. A lot of the systems and pvp systems in the game are nearly identical to an older game called Silk Road Online (outdated but check it out). Loss of gear, loss of experience(wish this was included), being hunted, caravans and the like. Don't worry people will be murdering other people. And the point of the reduced stats is that corruption isn't meant to create a new pvp dynamic, it's meant to force you into a corner of the map trying to grind off your corruption and run from bounty hunters. This is the dynamic, It's the criminal dynamic, you run from the cops you don't fight them.

Linstead

IllusionTokomi wrote: »

As others have said, there appears to be a misunderstanding surrounding "Corrupt" players. Not necessarily by you, OP. Maybe by you but certainly by others. Corruption is a black spot, a Scarlet Letter, a brand, a societal mark of shame. It has never been communicated to me that this is anything other than that.

Adding a game-play style or mechanic, relaxing sanctions, and assuredly adding a reward is counter to its foundational principle.

They already added a "game-play style or mechanic" with the bounty hunter system though. I'm sure plenty of people would love to be bounty hunters, but why would anyone ever PK? Meaning an entire in game system, that has probably had dozens of hours poured into it (if not more) will never fully be utilized.

The corruption system already seems flawed.
I can already see a way people can use it to grief endlessly.
1. be a neutral player
2. have some friends that want to player kill hiding close by
3. go harass a player to the point where they either want to log off or kill you in frustration because you are taking their resources or their mobs or whatever else
4. they turn to attack you, but you don't attack back and let yourself be killed
5. that player is now corrupted
6. your entire guild/party/friends all jump the player and kill him, incurring no penalty unto themselves, and he cannot fight back because he'd gain MORE corruption for fighting back (assuming your friends/guild/party are non-combatants)
7. you get his gear and his resources and have intentionally harassed him to the point where he might not even want to play the game anymore
8. repeat ad nauseum

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