Bard Discussion

Hello everyone Damokles here once again, now that we got some more fresh blood in the forums!

Now what I want to talk about is, what you whish the Bard gameplay to be.
I for one hope that the bard will be one of the ramp-up stiles, where you start of slow and then keep on getting faster and faster until you hit your cap.

Example:
You have a attack that gives you and all other partymembers a 5% crit buff, which you can stack up 3 times with a 10sec cooldown and a 35sec duration. That would let you juggle the buff with a big juggle window.
It would still require you to keep on your toes but also gives you enough time to eventually dodge incomming attacks or deal with mechanics of you are good.

The bard skillcap here would be to juggle more and more buffs during the duration of the fight keeping track of all the buffs.

I dont really like the approach that many gamestudios did regarding the bard class, where we just stand around and cast buff after buff without really engaging with the boss fight except dodging attacks.

So, what do you guys think? Would you rather have a burst type of gameplay or a more balanced approach?

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Samson1

Damokles wrote: »

Hello everyone Damokles here once again, now that we got some more fresh blood in the forums!

Now what I want to talk about is, what you whish the Bard gameplay to be.
I for one hope that the bard will be one of the ramp-up stiles, where you start of slow and then keep on getting faster and faster until you hit your cap.

Example:
You have a attack that gives you and all other partymembers a 5% crit buff, which you can stack up 3 times with a 10sec cooldown and a 35sec duration. That would let you juggle the buff with a big juggle window.
It would still require you to keep on your toes but also gives you enough time to eventually dodge incomming attacks or deal with mechanics of you are good.

The bard skillcap here would be to juggle more and more buffs during the duration of the fight keeping track of all the buffs.

I dont really like the approach that many gamestudios did regarding the bard class, where we just stand around and cast buff after buff without really engaging with the boss fight except dodging attacks.

So, what do you guys think? Would you rather have a burst type of gameplay or a more balanced approach?

Damokles

Samson wrote: »

Damokles wrote: »

Hello everyone Damokles here once again, now that we got some more fresh blood in the forums!

Now what I want to talk about is, what you whish the Bard gameplay to be.
I for one hope that the bard will be one of the ramp-up stiles, where you start of slow and then keep on getting faster and faster until you hit your cap.

Example:
You have a attack that gives you and all other partymembers a 5% crit buff, which you can stack up 3 times with a 10sec cooldown and a 35sec duration. That would let you juggle the buff with a big juggle window.
It would still require you to keep on your toes but also gives you enough time to eventually dodge incomming attacks or deal with mechanics of you are good.

The bard skillcap here would be to juggle more and more buffs during the duration of the fight keeping track of all the buffs.

I dont really like the approach that many gamestudios did regarding the bard class, where we just stand around and cast buff after buff without really engaging with the boss fight except dodging attacks.

So, what do you guys think? Would you rather have a burst type of gameplay or a more balanced approach?

CaptnChuck

I definitely wouldn't want bards to be burst oriented. I would like them to be more utility based i.e. they should be able to buff dps, dmg mitigation, healing etc. So more sustained dmg oriented if you will.

I do however like the idea of bard being a ramp-up style class, that focuses on managing buffs.

Kalv1441

Ideally? I'd like to see a performance style mechanic that has to do with timing. The best way to describe it would be like guitar hero, where you have a window where if you combo your skills with the right timing you get an "excellent" version of your buff. If you miss it, you just get the base line version.

CaptnChuck

Kalv1441 wrote: »

Ideally? I'd like to see a performance style mechanic that has to do with timing. The best way to describe it would be like guitar hero, where you have a window where if you combo your skills with the right timing you get an "excellent" version of your buff. If you miss it, you just get the base line version.

Yea that works too. But even in those windows, i do not want them to be doing rogue-level burst dmg.

Kalv1441

CaptnChuck wrote: »

Yea that works too. But even in those windows, i do not want them to be doing rogue-level burst dmg.

I agree, I don't expect them to based on how they want the primary class to be the focus of the role.

I hope to see that the secondary for the bard just pushes to the front the playstyle the bard wants to focus on. If it is a Bard/Rogue, I would like to see the playstyle I mentioned earlier, where the timing of your damage skills lends to better offensive buffs.

Songcaller

Buffs will be applied through DPS. Perhaps higher DPS or Critical Hits will adjust the buffs. I hope it is the case. We know Bards can proc heals and we know IS wants Bards to be an active class.

IS dont want heal bots and buff bots. They want all players to enjoy the combat.

Boom1

My perfect bard class would be as follows.

1. The buffs and debuffs given by the bard make the character equally as valuable as a tank or healer. The loss of a dps slot shouldn't feel like a loss, but a rewarding change-out. For balancing issues, I'd be fine with being a weaker character when playing solo for the payoff of making the a team way more able.

2. Actual working instruments. Perhaps a three octave keyboard, a flute/ocarina key system, or a set of strings and frets. This would allow each player to write their own music and perform it for other players in taverns and along bustling city streets. A bard would not likely be able to actually perform in the game for tips, or rather, the players would rather not tip for a key press that makes the bard simply an iPod. If each bard could truly play music with the instrument, this would be a super game changer. Think of how satisfying the super limited ocarina system was in Ocarina of Time. You were stuck in a two octave system, so you couldn't play just ANYTHING. Nevertheless, it was so satisfying to make your own tune for the scarecrow song. One way of going about this would be a live-play scenario. This would be MUCH harder on the bard to perform I think, but it would allow bands of bards to perform together. Very high end though. Another way about this would be to have sheet music/tabs that allowed the bard to mark out what the notes of the song will be, how long they are, and at a later time a spell could be assigned to a single keypress. The song written ahead of time would ring out, all nearby would hear the notes written by the bard, and a short tune could play out. This could always be extend as well to allow full compositions. A bard could write minutes of a song and have it play out for other players. This is a musician's dream for a musician's class. Of course, for dancing and acrobatics, this could work as well. Being able to semi-ragdoll your character by grabbing different limbs and assigning them directions before hand, or even just a series of moves tied to keypresses. Perhaps hitting all the right keys in the right times wields a chance of critting the performance and effect. Missing a step or poor timing could mean a fail or the buff only performing at half proficiency.

3. Wages for Music. Even if #2 was completely ignored, having the chance to rent a stable or a corner of a tavern and play for wages would be great.

4. Utility. +crit, +hit, +spell damage is all good. I'd like to see a lot of non=combat utility. Faster movement for the party when out of combat, higher detection of threats/traps/resources, group charisma boosts for extra dialogue options. I think these non-combat traits would make more groups say, "Man, I wish we had a bard in group for this." A bard joining the adventure should bring a smile and some relief, not a grown and regret.

5. This is probably the smallest desire of all. Bards should be able to band together in performances outside of combat. Maybe having a percussion, a woodwind, a bagpipe, and a dancer together has enhanced outcomes. Artistic folk enjoy artistic company.

I can't think of anything else I'd want really.

Malc

How would you see this translate in PvP? Where the bard may not necessarily have enough time to continue ramping up over a period of time?

Boom1

Malc wrote: »

How would you see this translate in PvP? Where the bard may not necessarily have enough time to continue ramping up over a period of time?

In PVP it could be likened to performing a combo in a fighting game. You run into combat, do a carthweel into a stab, and then perform a button combo to pull of a great looking attack to debuff one of the enemy's buffs or spells away. Maybe a roll behind the enemy to play a quick ditty (think of the flute from Willy Wonka) to slow the target's attack speed.

I can see maybe for long distance range having the music flow out in a stream that vexes the enemy's surroundings? The stone wall they hide behind becomes weakened Jericho style or the wheel of their caravan snaps.

Danceswithgravy

I think you guys have some good ideas. I loved playing a troubadour in EQ2. I do like the idea of bards being an active class; having to do damage or perform an action to enact certain buffs/debuffs. Overall i'm just excited to see bards again. I'm pretty confident that Intrepid will make them a great class to play.

Damokles

@Boom Steven already confirmed, that there will be no out of combat bard music. Instruments will also not really a thing.
They once talked about how Bard in Ashes will use things like Poetry or Theatrics to inspire allies and intimidate enemies. (Could have been that they could do that in concert with music or not i dont really remember it that well)

But I also really hope that we will get some kind of out of combat buffs. Lower detection range, movementspeed, increased resource recovery etc.

Boom1

I imagine the reason behind the lack of music would have been worries about copyright infringement. I do cringe at the idea of my character speaking sim language in combat, though.

I thought I saw a video on professions somewhere that mentioned you could craft instruments, specifically naming bagpipes.

Damokles

Boom wrote: »

I imagine the reason behind the lack of music would have been worries about copyright infringement. I do cringe at the idea of my character speaking sim language in combat, though.

I thought I saw a video on professions somewhere that mentioned you could craft instruments, specifically naming bagpipes.

I know that Tavern owners will be able to do stuff with instruments and music settings (flutes and bagpipes for one) but I dont know if Bards could also interact with them or not

I would appreciate it if we could, even though I myself am not the type of bard that likes standing around playing for other players xD

duckking

I would love to have Bards play music regarding to their second class choice.
Like if he is a Bard/Cleric he will play some sick religious tunes on a church like instrument.
Or if he is a Bard/ranger he will smack his lips on a wooden flute.

Raoul9753

Ever watched Log Horizon?

I would like the Bard to be the way Shiroe is shown in the Anime, buff your team, debuff your enemies, not really great alone but really powerfull when backed up by someone who can fight with him.

Style

CaptnChuck wrote: »

I definitely wouldn't want bards to be burst oriented. I would like them to be more utility based i.e. they should be able to buff dps, dmg mitigation, healing etc. So more sustained dmg oriented if you will.

I do however like the idea of bard being a ramp-up style class, that focuses on managing buffs.

That reminded me of the song the bars sang in the Witcher show on Netflix about bards. Hahaha

XerayReaper

Since hearing that Bards are very proximity based in AoC, I'd definitely like an idea that their spells could have duel effects to them.

Say, they attack an enemy and that grants that Crit+5% buff to everyone nearby, but it also debuffs the enemies around with an Acc-5%. Though, I guess you could say that'd be a bit overpowered, but I think it makes a lot of sense; you inspire your allies to do better, and intimidate your enemies.

In a way, if anyone has played FFXI, there's a Job called Dancer and it's a frontline support type job. It has these dances that can buff their party in doing HP draining effects, MP draining effects, healing, or a multitude of other buffs, but you have charges you need to build up. If AoC Bard was kind of like that, using charges, or say, flourishes, you built up during the battle to use unique skills spells, that'd be great too(not for every spell, but just the really big ones).

Maybe a mixture of both of these would be ideal, to me at least, gives the player some micromanagement.

Warhog53

Firstly, OMG BARDS YESSS!

With that out of the way, pretty much my only experience with a bard was in EQ. Where you had a limited number of songs slotted, with short durations on each. This meant you could "twist" different songs in and out to fit the encounter, while still doing a bit of dps. EQ2 did away with the twisting, and made the bard effects more skill based. I far prefer the former.

Are there some other bard experiences you all would recommend to pull inspiration from?

Personally, the experience in EQ is my favorite, but I'm interested to know the direction of the studio

ZiZi-Jaz-Mina

Personally I loved the EQ Bard, though it was OP heh...

I think that a Bard in this game could more resemble the L2 "bards" of Sword singer (elf) and blade dancer (dark elf).

Where the buffs are cast every 5 minutes. you'd have buffs of different categories, defense, offense, and support. then these buffs would change depending on your class. so like rogue maybe would have crit damage fo offensive, evasion for defense, and run speed for support? Ranger would have crit chance, evasion, and run speed? or if we want them to be totally different between classes, you could go for some other defense/support augments.

As far as offensive songs, a Ranger's augments would give your bard's debuff song increased damage from arrows, a mage increased damage taken from magic damage, etc.

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