With the currently envisioned corruption system, how hard would it be for a Non-PvPer to avoid PvP?

Is the corruption system designed to allow for more peaceful players to thrive? Or just to temper the more extreme / unfair acts of PvP like griefing and low level ganking?

I have a friend who's interest in a lot of the RP and artisan (potat -game) aspects of the game, but does not like PvP at all. I assume everyone will experience some PvP, but to what extent do you think this system will assist players to avoid PvP, if at all?

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Sangramoire

I think it will greatly reduce PvP for those that do not want it at the very least in lower level areas because the consequences of turning red will more than likely outweigh any benefits. In Higher level areas with much more rare resources it might not help as much as in lower areas but overall I think there will not be much a risk of PvP for those that don't want it. You might get attacked here and there but getting camped and killed over and over again by the same people won't happen very often. Becoming friendly with a group of bounty hunters might not be a bad idea.

Zenrage1

It's been said too that if someone griefs you they will eventually lose stats. So you may get killed for fun but unlikely repeatedly. As soon as that player is at risk for dropping gear people will swarm him, even better if they are weakened.

mcstackerson

Low level ganking and repeated killing are highly discouraged, especially when there is nothing to gain from the attacker.

A lot of the pvp will probably happen around the higher value areas of the map, places with juicy mob spawns. If you avoid those or are smart about when you go there, you should be able to avoid a lot of pvp. With the size of the map, it might be possible for people to find quiet areas of the map to play in that don't have as many players running about.

Undead Canuck

It will be very hard to completely avoid PvP. Since almost the whole world is PvP, you will not be safe unless your character never leaves your Freehold.

The Corruption mechanic is hoped to relieve most people from the worst griefers. You will probably encounter some idiots different thinking players here and there, but that happens in every game.

Frosty_Tips

@daxiongmao87 Have you friend get a freehold, and as we understand it, you cannot be attacked on your freehold. So your friend can spend all day peacefully working in their freehold, from farming mushrooms, to blacksmithing, to running their tavern, to breeding animals and spend lots of time too interacting with all the customers that come for their services. No PvP at all in this scenario.

However (the light in the room turns darker suddenly), at some point your no-PvP friend will need to use a caravan to sell or buy materials. And the moment that juicy loot filled caravan hits the dirt road, you may be attacked. But at least that PvP (which the system fully allows as non-corruption style of pvp) is expected and planned for PvP. And a good RPer who excels in a trade or service I have no doubt will make a great many friends. Some of the strongest PvPers in the land may come to them for their armor and a simple request to these legends of PvP to do you a favor this coming Saturday and help you get a caravan to town will no doubt be accepted with a smile.

daxiongmao87

loghan wrote: »

@daxiongmao87 Have you friend get a freehold, and as we understand it, you cannot be attacked on your freehold. So your friend can spend all day peacefully working in their freehold, from farming mushrooms, to blacksmithing, to running their tavern, to breeding animals and spend lots of time too interacting with all the customers that come for their services. No PvP at all in this scenario.

However (the light in the room turns darker suddenly), at some point your no-PvP friend will need to use a caravan to sell or buy materials. And the moment that juicy loot filled caravan hits the dirt road, you may be attacked. But at least that PvP (which the system fully allows as non-corruption style of pvp) is expected and planned for PvP. And a good RPer who excels in a trade or service I have no doubt will make a great many friends. Some of the strongest PvPers in the land may come to them for their armor and a simple request to these legends of PvP to do you a favor this coming Saturday and help you get a caravan to town will no doubt be accepted with a smile.

I wonder if I could do the pvp-risky things on behalf of my friend. Like getting the resources they need via caravan.

Frosty_Tips

Yep, even if your friend owns the Freehold, they can grant you alot of permissions within that freehold, like access to the inventory containers, access to manage the vendor, to pick the plants, etc. Or you could buy the freehold and grant your friend complete access to everything, and so either of you could initiate and run those caravans. Scroll down to Freehold Security in this article: https://aocwiki.net/Freeholds

daxiongmao87

loghan wrote: »

Yep, even if your friend owns the Freehold, they can grant you alot of permissions within that freehold, like access to the inventory containers, access to manage the vendor, to pick the plants, etc. Or you could buy the freehold and grant your friend complete access to everything, and so either of you could initiate and run those caravans. Scroll down to Freehold Security in this article: https://aocwiki.net/Freeholds

Woo!

Atama

Avoiding PvP in the game will be like avoiding injury in real life.

You can engage in behaviors that are lower-risk and so it will rarely happen. But you won’t be able to avoid it forever. Just as you will someday stub your toe or slip on a slick floor in real life, someday in the game you will run across someone who will want to attack you for some reason despite the consequences. It will be uncommon though, you aren’t forced into PvP as a constant playstyle as you might in a game like Eve Online.

Jexz

I think if you owned a Free hold you could mitigate most of the PvP out side of a node siege where you may or may not lose your free hold.

Depending on market conditions you may be able to make profit on processing crafting or other things such as taverns. Where you can contract the gathering and transporting aspect out. The profit might not be high but hopefully it is there.

NtR Fade

Seems to me it will be pretty rare to get killed or griefed for no reason, as the consequences of corruption far outweigh the reward of killing someone just because or for a small amount of gathered resources.

Warth

Avoiding PvP in the game will be like avoiding injury in real life.

You can engage in behaviors that are lower-risk and so it will rarely happen. But you won’t be able to avoid it forever. Just as you will someday stub your toe or slip on a slick floor in real life, someday in the game you will run across someone who will want to attack you for some reason despite the consequences. It will be uncommon though, you aren’t forced into PvP as a constant playstyle as you might in a game like Eve Online.

This hits the nail on the head. Years upon years of Lineage 2, that employs the exact same system have proven this. Lack of fast travel as well as bounty hunters make the risk even higher for Corrupted players.

Meeting players that go corrupt is nothing you will encounter on a daily basis.

Fildydarie

NtR Fade wrote: »

Seems to me it will be pretty rare to get killed or griefed for no reason, as the consequences of corruption far outweigh the reward of killing someone just because or for a small amount of gathered resources.

Corruption has no real consequences, however. Oh, sure, while you have it there is an impact (although not in PvE), and if you're corrupted and a player kills you there are those penalties, but the trick there is to ensure that the player who kills you while you are corrupted is a friend. You go slaughter people, then let your buddy kill you. Don't forget to strip naked to minimize the durability loss. Too much corruption? Repeat. Now you ganked a bunch of people, got loot from them, which has now been handed off to your buddy, and all you're left with is some XP debt to repay. You're max level; what did you need XP for anyway? You'll get it back doing whatever you were going to do.

But that even assumes you end up corrupted. If the person you attack fights back while you are a combatant (and not yet corrupted) then they become a combatant too. When you win the fight (and you picked a fight you would win), you won't be corrupted. And fight back they will, because it will reduce the penalties they suffer by half. So players are incentivized to deprive their attackers of the harsher penalty of corruption by fighting back to minimize their own losses.

And remember: the incentive for the griefer to attack in the first place is not to get at some of your resources, it is to make you upset. That is a playstyle that wins not by amassing wealth but by generating human misery. The XP debt they inflict on their victims is likely more valuable than the resources they steal, and the debt of their own they have to repay is just the grinding they have to do to access the content they want.

It will most likely take a little while before this becomes an issue, but it will, eventually. The corruption system might discourage the most extreme cases, but having played a healer on PvP servers in other games, I have my doubts that I would be able to walk anywhere without being griefed.

consultant

Well if it becomes an issue corruption can be tweaked to be more effective. Think devs will be monitoring the corruption system very closely and if to many people are getting ganked I imagine the would make it more effective.

Atama

Fildydarie wrote: »

NtR Fade wrote: »

Seems to me it will be pretty rare to get killed or griefed for no reason, as the consequences of corruption far outweigh the reward of killing someone just because or for a small amount of gathered resources.

Corruption has no real consequences, however. Oh, sure, while you have it there is an impact (although not in PvE), and if you're corrupted and a player kills you there are those penalties, but the trick there is to ensure that the player who kills you while you are corrupted is a friend. You go slaughter people, then let your buddy kill you. Don't forget to strip naked to minimize the durability loss. Too much corruption? Repeat. Now you ganked a bunch of people, got loot from them, which has now been handed off to your buddy, and all you're left with is some XP debt to repay. You're max level; what did you need XP for anyway? You'll get it back doing whatever you were going to do.

Don’t forget that if a corrupted player is killed in PvP they respawn in a random location and there is no fast travel. Doing this repeatedly to remove corruption isn’t going to be anywhere close to worth it. Players who try this are going to quickly discover that it’s easier and more profitable to just go after purple enemies and engage in consensual PvP.

Fildydarie

@Atama The PKer has to be corrupted first, and their victims have to choose to not flag. That means requiring people to take a greater penalty on themselves. I just don't see that happening.

If there was mandatory corruption for attacking a non-combatant, or non-combatants lost less than combatants on death, then corruption would be a factor. As it stands, victims are encouraged to minimize the corruption of their attacker. That is where the corruption system ultimately breaks down as a deterrence. It doesn't matter how effective it is numerically if nobody wants their attacker to gain corruption in the first place.

I don't know that the random respawn is a particularly big deal either. It is only a concern if you have corruption (and since other people don't want you to get corruption that seems like the less common situation) at the point where you determine you are ready to die. If the random is random-anywhere-in-the-world, I expect this will become a fast travel exploit. If it is random-in-the-general-area, then it just slows down organized corruption cleansing, but what is to stop you from stripping naked and letting anyone kill you? Since you're ready for it you'll have nothing to take damage or lose, so it just comes back to this being part of the grinding for people that want to grief. It actually seems to me that the best thing you can do to someone who is corrupted is to let them kill you without fighting back. Eventually they will have so much corruption they won't be able to PvP meaningfully at all--but this requires everybody to get on board and not kill them ever; it really isn't a viable plan as it requires 100% community support.

The only place where I can even conceive of corruption discouraging a PKer is in the case of very large level disparities, and that's fine , we do need deterrents there, but what it doesn't discourage is anything else. A max level healer can still get ganked. Given how much they stand to lose on death, of course they will fight back, not because they have a chance to survive, but because that cuts their penalty in half. But fighting back also prevents their attacker from gaining corruption, so corruption doesn't factor into the deterrence here at all.

So the people who want to do this don't have to hunt down purples; anyone they decide to fight will be purple, out of self-interest.

darthaden

You won't be able to completely avoid pvp but I can offer some advice if you would like to avoid it as much as possible.
1. Avoid nodes owned by hardcore pvp guilds. Should be pretty obvious but nodes owned by a pvp guild will have many players who like to pvp and they'll have plenty of backup should they go corrupted.
2. Look to join a large pve guild that owns a node or try to join a allied guild. A node owned by a large pve guild will have mostly friendly players.
3. Be conscious of where your grinding. If you start grinding mobs in a area that's a popular grind spot or where another group is already grinding your more likely to find yourself in a pvp situation. I dont know exactly how Ashes open world dungeons will work exactly but based on previous games I've played there's going to be 1 room that will be the best rotation and 3-4 other rooms that while still good are are slightly less xp and items then the top room, pick one of those other rooms and you'll be less likely to have someone kill you for your spot.
4. Don't be a troll in chat. I'm not much of a pvper myself but if I come across someone I know I can take who's constantly posting garbage in chat I'll probably kill them just because

Rissy

Fildydarie wrote: »

@Atama The PKer has to be corrupted first, and their victims have to choose to not flag. That means requiring people to take a greater penalty on themselves. I just don't see that happening.

A max level healer can still get ganked. Given how much they stand to lose on death, of course they will fight back, not because they have a chance to survive, but because that cuts their penalty in half. But fighting back also prevents their attacker from gaining corruption, so corruption doesn't factor into the deterrence here at all.

So the people who want to do this don't have to hunt down purples; anyone they decide to fight will be purple, out of self-interest.

Oh there will be cases of people who don't flag, even though there is a harsher penalty. I will happily take a higher penalty myself if it causes a griefer to get corruption, especially if I am out minding my own business.

Talents

If I'm going to be perfectly honest, this is really not the game for you if you want to avoid PvP. I know everyone talks about how "oh but the corruption system", but if I'm honest, you will not be able to avoid PvP since a lot of the systems of the game are built around it.

The dungeons and raids are 80% open world which means there's a good chance you'll be PK'd there regardless of if you're a non-combatant.

The Node system is massively PvP based with Node Sieges.

Guilds will be largely PvP centred with Guild Wars being a thing as well as Castle Sieges (although you can just join a guild that doesn't want to do this).

If you want to help transport materials and gatherables to another Node via Caravans, you have to fight or attempt to avoid PvPers.

If you're a gatherer and go around gathering, expect people to try and PK you in order to reach the gathering point first and get it before you, even if they do earn corruption, or for them to kill you when you do gather so they can get a portion of the loot.

I know people love to tout Ashes as a "PvX" game (Steven included) and while this is true, the entire game is based and built around PvP, you cannot avoid it.

PlagueMonk

Atama wrote: »

Avoiding PvP in the game will be like avoiding injury in real life.

You can engage in behaviors that are lower-risk and so it will rarely happen. But you won’t be able to avoid it forever. Just as you will someday stub your toe or slip on a slick floor in real life, someday in the game you will run across someone who will want to attack you for some reason despite the consequences. It will be uncommon though, you aren’t forced into PvP as a constant playstyle as you might in a game like Eve Online.

In response to the OP's original question, I think Atama sums it up.

To add to it a bit.......you can probably avoid PvP altogether but in doing so you will be cutting yourself off from the vast majority of AoC's content. That means no venturing out to gather, explore, experience a siege, traveling with a caravan, and much much more! Similar to being a shut-in who avoids the outside world but also never gets to experience sunshine, driving, eating at a restaurant, walking in the woods, etc. Yes, it's MUCH safer but very limited and boring.

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