Regarding Ranger classes, Tracking and Stealth

In RPG games, stealth, cunning and specifically ambush has always been a staple of the hunter / ranger class, in some cases even more then the bow. Over the years however, the bow/ranged weapons would sort of become the identity of the ranger and what actually made a ranger, a ranger was sort of lost and oftentimes handed over to the rogue which can be a very similar class, this was undoubtedly an attempt at making the two classes more distinct so they stood out from one another.

Basically, I just want rangers to be able to stealth, it is a huge part of their class fantasy, the entire identity of a hunter is to ambush prey. And rangers also fall under this category, they often have ambush tools in RPG games, including DnD (Snare, Hail of Thorns) and even in MMO's like WoW etc. they generally have bear traps or other ambush mechanics at their disposal. Stealth is pretty big part of ambush as well, and I would hope with some combination of Ranger / Rogue or Rogue / Ranger, you could have both the tools of tracking, stealth and ambush.

Now, let's talk about tracking. Tracking mechanics can be insanely fun if it is implemented correctly, remember, my character is a master tracker, not me. I think the best / most fun tracking I have ever done has been in Apex Legends using the character Bloodhound, essentially it highlights footsteps, (Tracks) it puts a ping over where they reloaded / fired weapons (Magazines / Shell casings) a ping over where an enemy was injured (Blood). It starts off as just a ping with an icon (Like bullets for a gun fired), but as you move closer, you get more information, like how long ago the action took place.

It makes you do the work of following the tracks / clues but all of the knowledge of tracking is done by the character, like how could I ever tell how long ago someone walked by, or what type of armor they were wearing without training? It also makes these things pop out to you since your character would have been trained to spot and notice these sort of things.

These sort of mechanics could be insanely good for scouting out enemy zergs, like imagine you're walking through a field when you see like 80 footstep pings, so you walk closer and get the information that they only rode by a minute ago, so you drop a ping in your nodes / guilds discord, "Watch out, large zerg riding through this area."

This could also be very good for tracking down rare mobs, rare roving gatherables (Like super roided out mega sheep with rare pink wool that all of the ladies wanna buy.) and even world bosses if your guild wanted to kill the world boss for that week first.

Good tracking could make rangers insanely desirable for groups / guilds to pick up.

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Comments

CaptnChuck

From what we know about the classes, pseudo stealth will exist primarily for rogues. If you take it as an archetype, then you will gain it as an augment for certain abilities. If you double down on rogue, it might give you perma invis.

As for tracking, we simply don't know yet. Steven accidentally mentioned it in the AMA. So we have to wait and see. What we do know is that utility skills exist in order to provide an incentive to recruit all archetypes to do group content, rather than just a few. So I'm pretty sure that it will be significant enough.

Lfmr

CaptnChuck wrote: »

From what we know about the classes, pseudo stealth will exist primarily for rogues. If you take it as an archetype, then you will gain it as an augment for certain abilities. If you double down on rogue, it might give you perma invis.

As for tracking, we simply don't know yet. Steven accidentally mentioned it in the AMA. So we have to wait and see. What we do know is that utility skills exist in order to provide an incentive to recruit all archetypes to do group content, rather than just a few. So I'm pretty sure that it will be significant enough.

I really hope the stealth is like Planetside 2's Infiltrator, the farther away you are, the harder it is to spot, standing still makes you more transparent, and sprinting / running makes you less transparent. Though, I would also like a stationary recharge mechanic on stealth as well, like not moving slowly recharges stealth, but not as fast as being out of stealth.

Crowley

I don't feel Ranger should get stealth unless they choose Rogue as their secundary and it maybe augments a skill into having stealth for a short period/when you're standing still.
I do really like the idea of the Rogue and Ranger having a Cat and Mouse relationship. Rogue being elusive, Ranger being perceptive etc. And I would love to see an option to track stealthed characters as an Ranger.
(although I might be biased as I'm planning on playing a Ranger)

Lfmr

Crowley wrote: »

I don't feel Ranger should get stealth unless they choose Rogue as their secundary and it maybe augments a skill into having stealth for a short period/when you're standing still.
I do really like the idea of the Rogue and Ranger having a Cat and Mouse relationship. Rogue being elusive, Ranger being perceptive etc. And I would love to see an option to track stealthed characters as an Ranger.
(although I might be biased as I'm planning on playing a Ranger)

I think I would be the most happy if Ranger / Rogue and Rogue / Ranger both had tracking and stealth mechanics, (Maybe Ranger / Ranger too.) but I still think that stealth and ambush is a major staple of the class fantasy for a ranger and hunter archetype.

Leroher

I think Ranger could have a stealth mechanic, but not as good as rogue's, like a stealth when standing still, waiting for a prey, but it's not necessary to me. And then, if you want to become the most deadly hunter in the wild, pick Rogue as secondary to become Predator.

Ulquiorra

I recommend all of you to see all 4 archer classes in Dragon Nest. The only MMO with good archers imo.

Here's one of four classes, Sniper, a PvE video I made 4 years ago to test DPS on a boss. (It's a PvP game BTW)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ5rbV0WAsU

Tragnar

Stealth/Ambush version of Archer is completely fine in the way they want to do this. Would you create complete separate archetype to include pure combat archers - animal hunters that ambush their prey are a type of an archer, but not the other way around

Damokles

Stealth will be something exclusive to the main rogue class.

What I would like for the rangers would be a combo system like what the Assassin in AION had/has.
They would stack marks on their target via ranged attacks and then burn those stacks with a melee charge where they then finish the enemy off while in melee.

Why do I talk about Rangers engage in melee? Because Steven talked a bit about the current ranger gameplay!
And in that he said that the current ranger gameplay is "interesting" and does a lot of switching between melee and ranged attacks.

You can go Rogue/Ranger if you want to though, you would then have access to stealth as a "ranger".

Steven already talked a lot about how certain classes will have main class specific abilities and advantages.

Rogues have Stealth, Rangers have Traps, Bards have buffs, Clerics have direct healing, tanks have damage mitigation, etc.

Nizzikef

All I know is, don't do stealth like WoW

Shadowbane had a really awesome, simple stealth system.

"Rogue" classes that could spec into stealth could use 2 skills, (Hide and Sneak) Hide was a half-second cast time that required you to stay stationary while hidden, moving broke your stealth. While Sneak was 3 second cast time that allowed you to move with 30% reduced speed. The idea being you use hide before sneak to go invis quickly.

On the other hand, the Ranger and Scout class had a skill called "Detect Hidden" granting you a buff for a very short duration (30-60 seconds don't really remember) that allows you to see invisible players and mobs around you in a small radius. In Shadowbane skills ranked to level 40, so if your Sneak is level 40 and the Scout's Detect Hidden is level 30, you will not be detected. If both skills are the same level Detect would be able to see the stealthed player.

Another cool skill that Rangers and Scouts had in Shadowbane would be their ability called Track. When used it would bring up a window showing all players within a large radius, you would then be able to select one from the list and start Tracking them. After 12 seconds of casting you'd have an arrow over your head pointing you in the direction of your target. This arrow would bounce around a lot if you used low level track, with only the max level allowing you to have pinpoint accuracy.

The idea would be to use Track in conjunction with Detect Hidden to hunt down undesirables in the area. There was a lot of cat and mouse in that game and it was actually a really fun aspect.

There was a thief class in Shadowbane too, with a Steal ability, which allowed you to actually see your target's inventory, and select an item with a chance of failure and detection... So you didn't really want a Theif hanging around your farm group...

Something very similar to this would be what I'd love to see in AoC.

Damokles

Nizzikef wrote: »

All I know is, don't do stealth like WoW

Shadowbane had a really awesome, simple stealth system.

"Rogue" classes that could spec into stealth could use 2 skills, (Hide and Sneak) Hide was a half-second cast time that required you to stay stationary while hidden, moving broke your stealth. While Sneak was 3 second cast time that allowed you to move with 30% reduced speed. The idea being you use hide before sneak to go invis quickly.

On the other hand, the Ranger and Scout class had a skill called "Detect Hidden" granting you a buff for a very short duration (30-60 seconds don't really remember) that allows you to see invisible players and mobs around you in a small radius. In Shadowbane skills ranked to level 40, so if your Sneak is level 40 and the Scout's Detect Hidden is level 30, you will not be detected. If both are same level,

Another cool skill that Rangers and Scouts in Shadowbane would be their ability called Track. When used it would bring up a window showing all players within a large radius, you would then be able to select one from the list and start Tracking them. After 12 seconds of casting you'd have an arrow over your head pointing you in the direction of your target. This arrow would bounce around a lot if you used low level track, with only the max level allowing you to have pinpoint accuracy.

The idea would be to use Track in conjunction with Detect Hidden to hunt down undesirables in the area. There was a lot of cat and mouse in that game and it was actually a really fun aspect.

There was a thief class in Shadowbane too, with a Steal ability, which allowed you to actually see your target's inventory, and select an item with a chance of failure and detection... So you didn't really want a Theif hanging around your farm group...

Something very similar to this would be what I'd love to see in AoC.

The stealth that we currently saw in APOC was more of a StarCraft or HeroesOfTheStorm kind of invisibility.
The kind, where you go "invisible" by blending in with your surroundings, but where you are still leaving some kind of distortion that you can detect if you are good.

Lfmr

Tragnar wrote: »

Stealth/Ambush version of Archer is completely fine in the way they want to do this. Would you create complete separate archetype to include pure combat archers - animal hunters that ambush their prey are a type of an archer, but not the other way around

I want to point out that rangers are not even specifically archers, and they have never been exclusively archers either, what I am trying to say is that stealth is one of the staples of the class fantasy, rangers are generally known to gather information (tracking), then use that information to ambush targets (generally by setting up traps or leading targets into unfavorable terrain.) Rangers could more accurately be compared to park rangers or mountain men then archers honestly.

Tyrantor

Nizzikef wrote: »

All I know is, don't do stealth like WoW

Shadowbane had a really awesome, simple stealth system.

"Rogue" classes that could spec into stealth could use 2 skills, (Hide and Sneak) Hide was a half-second cast time that required you to stay stationary while hidden, moving broke your stealth. While Sneak was 3 second cast time that allowed you to move with 30% reduced speed. The idea being you use hide before sneak to go invis quickly.

On the other hand, the Ranger and Scout class had a skill called "Detect Hidden" granting you a buff for a very short duration (30-60 seconds don't really remember) that allows you to see invisible players and mobs around you in a small radius. In Shadowbane skills ranked to level 40, so if your Sneak is level 40 and the Scout's Detect Hidden is level 30, you will not be detected. If both skills are the same level Detect would be able to see the stealthed player.

Another cool skill that Rangers and Scouts had in Shadowbane would be their ability called Track. When used it would bring up a window showing all players within a large radius, you would then be able to select one from the list and start Tracking them. After 12 seconds of casting you'd have an arrow over your head pointing you in the direction of your target. This arrow would bounce around a lot if you used low level track, with only the max level allowing you to have pinpoint accuracy.

The idea would be to use Track in conjunction with Detect Hidden to hunt down undesirables in the area. There was a lot of cat and mouse in that game and it was actually a really fun aspect.

There was a thief class in Shadowbane too, with a Steal ability, which allowed you to actually see your target's inventory, and select an item with a chance of failure and detection... So you didn't really want a Theif hanging around your farm group...

Something very similar to this would be what I'd love to see in AoC.

Love that someone else is here from Shadowbane but your memory of the ranger skills is off. Rangers did not have the ability to detect hidden targets that was a Scout only ability. Also tracking was available on many classes in the game via the rune system (Bounty Hunter) which allowed most melee class types to apply.

Since this game does not have a true stealth like SB had however I'm not sure there is going to be any need for "detect hidden" - the ability to track would accomplish this by leading someone directly to the player and since there is collision you would actually run directly into them if you didn't actually see them first.

HowlingWolf80

Lfmr wrote: »

CaptnChuck wrote: »

From what we know about the classes, pseudo stealth will exist primarily for rogues. If you take it as an archetype, then you will gain it as an augment for certain abilities. If you double down on rogue, it might give you perma invis.

As for tracking, we simply don't know yet. Steven accidentally mentioned it in the AMA. So we have to wait and see. What we do know is that utility skills exist in order to provide an incentive to recruit all archetypes to do group content, rather than just a few. So I'm pretty sure that it will be significant enough.

I really hope the stealth is like Planetside 2's Infiltrator, the farther away you are, the harder it is to spot, standing still makes you more transparent, and sprinting / running makes you less transparent. Though, I would also like a stationary recharge mechanic on stealth as well, like not moving slowly recharges stealth, but not as fast as being out of stealth.

I really like the first part of what you said I hope it's like that too. Would be cool if you're further away and standing still you can perma true stealth. Would make some interesting scouting.

Passpartu

I've always disliked classes that have stealth because for me it's a very powerful skill that can turn a fight around completely. Well, I have a little experience in different MMO RPGs played and I can say that classes like killer or shooters have always had this skill and these classes have always been the strongest killers on the battlefield, of course, they could not massively clear the locations of monsters, but in duels, they were not different. Recently, in an article about techshout.com, I learned that there are games where developers do not specifically introduce invisibility and other types of invisibility. And I really like it, I think to find a new game for myself to remember my past.

akabear

One of my most memorable moments in Age of Conan was going into stealth while someone else was in stealth and a battle of griefer payback..

Two players in stealth tracking each other`s footsteps trying to locate where the other might be, appearing and disappearing in view and a game of chess trying to catch the other.

I recall in L2 that some players that liked PvP turned certain graphics down low to similify the terrain so they could see more clearly, and give an edge. That I do not want to see.

I did enjoy being able to go invisible in ESO during pvp until found.

I really liked the ability of the group to go prone to hide in one MMO awaiting an enemy at a choke point.

I have seen mention of damage modifiers for frontal and rear attacks. But no mention of elevation or from stealth.

These are the rogue / ranger activities I would like to see.

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