Cross-Server Arenas, Leaderboards

First of all im not a fan of server based games that devide the playerbase into many fractions but I understand that this is a vital part of this game due to its node system. Thats why I would at least ask for cross-server arenas since they are instanced anyway and would provide at least one form of global (or regional) interaction between players. Its a difference if you are the best player on your server (10000 players) or on a global/regional scale (potential 1000000+ players). How can I show the youtube guy who posts tons of videos about him being number 1 PvP on his server, that I am better than him when we can never play against each other since we are on different servers? How can I be satisfied with my local server PvP ranking when I cant even play vs 99% of the overall playerbase? As a competitive player I really need a way to compete vs the best of the best. I believe it would also be way healthier for youtube and twitch content, which in return will boost this games population.
You could also easily implement competitive tournaments like this.

I would suggest that when you queue for an arena game, that you can choose between server intern or cross-server arena. And I would also like to see global and server wide leaderboards.

Any thoughts?

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Frosty_Tips

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Arenas
*The arena system may support cross-server combat.
*Arena style combat is instanced but spectators may be possible through an interface.

Steven had said "may support" so here's hoping they find the time to implement it, and even if it doesn't make it, then probably in a future expansion.
I agree, it'd be good for making the competitive players happy and great for streamers which helps draw in new people, basically free marketing as long as it's fun enough to watch on a stream or YT video.

Kaelang

I personally like the idea of keeping the ladder's to a specific server - it means that you get to know the people you're fighting. Cross-server support works if the population on a specific server simply can't support a competitive PvP structure. So I guess we'll have to wait and see.

arsnn

loghan wrote: »

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Arenas
*The arena system may support cross-server combat.
*Arena style combat is instanced but spectators may be possible through an interface.

Steven had said "may support" so here's hoping they find the time to implement it, and even if it doesn't make it, then probably in a future expansion.
I agree, it'd be good for making the competitive players happy and great for streamers which helps draw in new people, basically free marketing as long as it's fun enough to watch on a stream or YT video.

I echo this point, i asked Steven during one of the Pax live-streams if they’d consider doing cross platform arenas and he was positive about it but a bit hesitant to confirm it.
A good compromise would be a special and time limited event in military nodes that could host cross server arena events such as ladders or some cool tournament format. Also spectating options would be awesome.
Personally i’d also like to see some instanced Guild PvP formats similar to battle grounds but it seems that wont be the case for ashes.

Frosty_Tips

I think we'll have instanced Guild PvP, that's the arena again, but if you mean something as robust as a WoW battle grounds, yeah I guess not that, atleast not at launch. It's looking like they will support groups as large as 20v20 and you can pick who's in your group so you can make it so all of the same guild are in one 20 man group and all of an enemy guild is in the other 20 man group. But that would just be two groups straight up killing eachother. I couldn't find the video but I feel like I remember Steve/Jeff throwing out there that maybe capture the flag would be an arena mode too but that may have just been a possible add.

awq

Doesn't really sound balanced to me.
If each server progresses differently then the most balanced pvp should be within the same server and not randomly getting people from some server where they are far ahead.

Example,
People start hitting 50 on your server and you want to start arenas.
You are matched against people of different servers, and say your server was among the slower ones.
You're suddenly facing decked out guys that don't even exist in your world, shredding you.

Putting that aside, what if there's a hero system or something alike?
They are taking a lot of lineage inspiration and the olympiad was the lineage version of matchmaking arenas.

However the highest ranked player on the server from each class were awarded with "hero" status for a month, granting some benefits.
New heroes were elected each month based on rank.

If they plan on implementing anything like this then I see it even more unfair and unlikely (as it's only based on server rank) for it to be cross servers.

Sendbackup

I would think that cross server pvp would be problematic to say the least for one simple reason.....LATENCY.

How can you be competitive in a server the other side of the world on a 200+ ping?

Frosty_Tips

awq wrote: »

...the highest ranked player on the server from each class were awarded with "hero" status for a month, granting some benefits. New heroes were elected each month based on rank.

Looks like you and Steven are thinking the same way, here's Steven saying in a Q&A they hope to have a Hero system (as a unique feature to military node) and cross server challenges to find the "best" of each archetype. This will be badass! And great streamer content!
(29:13)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtG9mB2bREI&feature=youtu.be&t=29m13s

Noaani

Asura wrote: »

How can I show the youtube guy who posts tons of videos about him being number 1 PvP on his server, that I am better than him when we can never play against each other since we are on different servers?

Why would you want to?
Why would you care?
Why would Intrepid think to alter their game design for this?

Asura

Noaani wrote: »

Asura wrote: »

How can I show the youtube guy who posts tons of videos about him being number 1 PvP on his server, that I am better than him when we can never play against each other since we are on different servers?

Why would you want to?
Why would you care?
Why would Intrepid think to alter their game design for this?

It was more of a metaphoric expression. And I think it aligns quite well with their game design.

Asura

Sendbackup wrote: »

I would think that cross server pvp would be problematic to say the least for one simple reason.....LATENCY.

How can you be competitive in a server the other side of the world on a 200+ ping?

Yea thats why I also mentioned region (NA, EU, OCE). Global is not possible, maybe when Starlink is completly online?

arsnn

Asura wrote: »

Sendbackup wrote: »

I would think that cross server pvp would be problematic to say the least for one simple reason.....LATENCY.

How can you be competitive in a server the other side of the world on a 200+ ping?

Yea thats why I also mentioned region (NA, EU, OCE). Global is not possible, maybe when Starlink is completly online?

Starlinks ping benefits wont actually be that big, people like to float the most optimistic numbers around.
The true benefit lies in the global omnipresence, every corner of the world will be equally connected.
The regionalization of online games will still be a thing.

Noaani

Asura wrote: »

And I think it aligns quite well with their game design.

I disagree.

A big part of their game design is the notion of essentially walled communities so that all that really matters to you are the people inside that community and your place within it.

If the game is developed properly in terms of class balance, different servers will have a (slightly) different PvP meta going on - so you really can't compare cross server.

Comparing your PvP ability to someone on a different server is about the same as comparing your PvP ability to someone in a different game - different circumstances, different crowd.

Zhab

Noaani wrote: »

I disagree.

That is your right. But that doesn't mean you are right. Let's look at your arguments

Noaani wrote: »

A big part of their game design is the notion of essentially walled communities so that all that really matters to you are the people inside that community and your place within it.

In order to be competitive on the wider PVP scene you will need to level up, acquire great gear and then continuously maintain and polish that gear.

All of that can only happen within your server and involving people from your server. Getting your hands on great gear will absolutely be a group effort that will be opposed by several other groups. "wider PVP" will absolutely not change any of that in anyway. For the worst or for the better.

But having "wider PvP" (even if very limited in form or frequency) would do wonder for the competitive scene of this game. Which would appeal greatly to a type of players (or spectators) without harming the other players in anyway. As such the only valid reason not to have this is the development cost in time, money and effort. If it is to hard for whatever reason, then I would say there are many other things that should be prioritized. But if time and ressources permit or most other things are already done and polished then yes absolutely include this.

Noaani wrote: »

If the game is developed properly in terms of class balance, different servers will have a (slightly) different PvP meta going on - so you really can't compare cross server.

How is this different from any other competitions in the real world ? Being your local or regional champion doesn't mean that you'll perform well on the global scene. There is nothing wrong with being "just" the champion of your server. Who cares if you can't be the world champion ? Who cares if the meta of your server is different ? Furthermore, giving the ever involving nature of meta in general the "trash tier" server of today might very well be the champion of tomorrow.

In that sense I think that any in-game reward (that have actually impact on gameplay) should stop at server level. Any competition beyond that should be purely for glory and bragging rights with rewards being limited to purely cosmetic title or skin (which would be more then enough for those interested in that type of high end competition anyways). That way a server with an weird meta isn't penalized in any one for being unique.

Noaani wrote: »

Comparing your PvP ability to someone on a different server is about the same as comparing your PvP ability to someone in a different game - different circumstances, different crowd.

Sigh.... if people from different countries, culture, lifestyles, etc can compete in football (soccer) together without any issue then I really don't see why people merely from different servers that might be in the same country could not do the same.

If only a very specific combination of nodes development result into something that can compete on a wider scale then that is a problem and should be re-balanced. I'm not asking for all 103 nodes to be worthwhile but there should be a selection of maybe 30 nodes in various combinations that result in an array of unlocked content which is considered viable on the global PVP scene. This would also fix the possible problem where players feel the need to switch server because they feel their server is trash and alleviate the social pressure to have all server be carbon copy of each others as this game age on and the meta is further refined. So it is not just about balancing global PVP.

awq

loghan wrote: »

awq wrote: »

...the highest ranked player on the server from each class were awarded with "hero" status for a month, granting some benefits. New heroes were elected each month based on rank.

Looks like you and Steven are thinking the same way, here's Steven saying in a Q&A they hope to have a Hero system (as a unique feature to military node) and cross server challenges to find the "best" of each archetype. This will be badass! And great streamer content!
(29:13) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtG9mB2bREI&feature=youtu.be&t=29m13s

Well he's talking about the same subject atleast :'D
Sounds like they are for cross-server arenas while I have my doubts in regards to hero systems, which he is talking about there.
I just think it would be cool if each server had heroes of each class for you to run into in the open world and have that as a goal to strive for and actually see them playing on your server.

I feel like the cross server alternative they are talking about while discussing a hero system will result in servers with no heroes at all, maybe even only a very few select elitist servers claiming all the slots of glory, depending on how many servers there will be.

Also a small immersion detail would be if you want to claim the hero status from some1 else on your server of the same class, there should be a high chance to run into him in the arena, especially if you can queue up versus the same classes.

Regular pvp matchmaking I don't care as much about whether it's cross server or not.

Zhab

awq wrote: »

I feel like the cross server alternative they are talking about while discussing a hero system will result in servers with no heroes at all, maybe even only a very few select elitist servers claiming all the slots of glory, depending on how many servers there will be.

edit: I was wrong. Miss heard what was said in video.

Liniker

I agreed with this 100% I don't think it is unbalanced due to different progression on multiple servers since on your very own server there will always be people that fall behind, all the servers that went live on the same day, had the same chance to gear up and prepare for cross-server arenas, its fair, would make Arenas relevant and competitive, they want to make all PVP meaningful, this is a great way of doing that - having servers competing for rank 1

Frosty_Tips

It will be entertaining I think to see two Paladins battle it out 1v1 for the hero title specific to the Paladin class and as the battle goes on it looks neck to neck but ultimately the Paladin who comes from a server with alot of religious nodes wins against the Paladin from the server with mainly Military nodes. Because then the community will debate for weeks over a thousand posts about how the Religious Paladin only won because his ultra skill is overpowered vs the Military Paladin's ultra skill (both had ultimate skills but both sides claim the other is unbalanced and that's the only reason they won, when in truth, is that really the case?)

And these ultimate skills for example would be like a rare skill that you can only get if you have not one but two religious nodes at Metropolis level and defeated a demon world boss that dropped the scroll of mega awesome new skill. While the server that had 2 military metropolis had a world boss that drop a different Paladin mega skill.

Zhab

@loghan yeah that could happen but the thing is that it could also happen within the same server. It is already confirmed that some advantages that you can acquire can only be had by a single character at a time.

Therefore you could have a very similar situation within a single server where 2 great paladins are competing for the top while not having quite the same gear, skill set, augment, title related augment/enchants etc etc.

Was it skill ? Was it the character ? The winner will be decided by the combination of the 2 and sometimes it will be very hard to tell which was the predominant factor. It is just the nature of this type of game.

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