Will There Be Enough Housing For Every Account to Have Atleast One Home So You Can Be a Citizen?

*edit to post based on info from this reddit post of a map with exact measurements. I originally assumed too much land vs water play area, which reduces possible freehold max count.

@Zhab posed this question in a thread and it really got me wondering it myself. I always smiled all day long assuming "yes" as I sit on the back of my Snorse mount. But is that the truth really? Would it be a possible problem that on a server maxed out at 50,000 accounts that some people simply won't have a home anywhere to buy and thus never be able to be a citizen (because a requirement of citizenship is home ownership.)

Below is a mad man's attempt at math, or better defined as Some Wild A** Guesses / SWAG. Shout out to @Lex 's Wiki and @Jahlon 's Ashes101 website. as I pulled raw data about tier 3 nodes and world size from them, though they had nothing to do with the madness you are about to read below so don't blame them. Any details after tier 3 we just don't know so I guessed.

To the Ashes Devs if by random chance you read this, if my results are even close to right please blink once, if drastically off and thread should be perma deleted, please blink twice.

I think the greatest enabler are Apartments, even a tier 3 node has 50 apartments, and then each tier above, up through tier 6, automatically gets more in node houses and apartments, and on top of that a mayor may use limited land space to build yet more apartments.

Now this is where we have to start guessing, i'll start with in node houses since they will be the fewest. At tier 3 you get 8 in node homes. Let's assume tier 4 causes the max to be 24, tier 5 = 48, and tier 6 metro = 96.

Then Apartments, lets start by assuming the mayor builds no extra apartments, they only get the "Free" apartments that are added automatically regardless every time a node levels. So 50 initial apts at tier 3, lets say tier 4 takes that max to 200, tier 5 max becomes 500 and tier 6 metro the max is 900? We literally have no info on this so cut me a great deal of slack.

On top of those numbers the mayor may select to build 1 or even more than 1 extra apartment building which could double or triple the numbers I gave above.

Here's another rough guess, if someone looks at the world map and does the math and work to references all the ZOIs and how they overlap and how since one nodes prevents neighboring nodes from leveling up, that out of 102 possible nodes only X number can ever develop to tier 3, then please do and save me here. But otherwise i'm SWAG'ing it and saying 50 nodes can reach tier 3 or higher. God help me, I know that's a SWAG.

So since a Metro may have 96 in node homes, and a minimum of 900 apartments (or maybe 1,800 apartments if the mayor picks to build more apartments!) we have to guess at an average number of apartments when all nodes are averaged together. Again have mercy on me as I SWAG that average to be 500 apartments.

So 50 nodes, each with 96 in node homes and 500 apartments = Server wide, assuming barely any mayors pick to build additional apts. = 4,800 in-node houses + 25,000 apartments = 29,800 possible types of homes on a server with only 50,000 accounts max.

That's 29,800 homes and it's making the unrealistic assumption that none of the mayors build extra apartment buildings. If we assume most nodes will build 1 extra apartment building then instead of 29,800 possible homes per server it could easily become 50,000 types of in-node homes/apartments per server.

Keep in mind that's 50,000 accounts but I bet thousands of those will never need a home because they will be a 2nd or 3rd account one player owns for alts and they just share homes between the accounts rather then buying 3 homes for 3 accounts. And then there will be people who one is hardcore and the other is super casual so the casual just shares a home with their friend/significant other.

A counter balance though will be that many hardcore players will be able to afford multiple homes. So maybe with 50,000 active accounts you end up with a need for 100,000 homes.

But I believe the final gap is bridged with Freeholds, which in a world with land (excluding water) being 218 km2 above ground land and 100 km2 underrealm, only some of it can have freeholds built on it, as it cannot interfere with node development, roads, dungeons etc, and half of the map is water. But let's assume of that 318 km2 available space half can have freeholds on it, which reduces it to 159km2 and then let us half that half because Freeholds cannot be lined up side by side, a lot of empty space must be in between. So that gives us 79.5 km2 of actual Freehold plot land. Each freehold only being 1/2 an acre or 0.002 km2 in size, would mean the total number of Freeholds will be 79.5 km2 / 0.002 km2 = 39,750 Freeholds per server.

We end up with 39,750 Freehold, and between 29,800 to 50,000 In-Node Homes and Apartments for a combined total possible homes per server assuming that mayors don't completely max out all construction options on just building Apartments, to be 69,550 to 89,750 housing options combined. Plenty for a 50,000 max account server. Though once the game matures and servers have been around for 6+ months, many hardcore gamers will own 2 or 3 homes, and so housing will become short, but my numbers above assume the nodes do no or only 1 additional Apartment construction project. If a shortage ever occurred, mayors in some nodes will definitely build more apartments as the income those generate is too good to pass up.

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Comments

Hystorix

As long as I get a seaside freehold with a view ... I’m good ... lol

winner909098

that makes sense

TheGoodzilla

I honestly just want a hobbit hole where I can relax and no one finds me.

Zhab

Lots of assumptions in there but reassuring none the less. I seriously doubt that 25% of world will be covered in freeholds. 5% to 10% sounds much more reasonable (but still sounds high). That would still be 8k to 15.9k freeholds.

But citizenship of a metropolis is still going to be a big premium and a status symbol.

CaptnChuck

winner909098 wrote: »

that makes sense

I finally get to see the man behind the likes.

Vhaeyne

The housing limit is there to create conflict. It is there to motivate you to take someone else's land. You are less likely to take up the sword if you are content. You may definitely go to war for a chance at the benefits of being a citizen. That works both ways. You are more likely to defend your citizenship if you had to fight tooth and nail to get it.

In short:"Service Guarantees Citizenship"
check out Starship Troopers if you would like to know more.

winner909098

that makes sense

CaptnChuck wrote: »

winner909098 wrote: »

that makes sense

I finally get to see the man behind the likes.

I never can think of something that isn't said, so I like pretty much everything

HiddenDaggerInn

I actually am hoping for a housing shortage, if you can't place a home then it's time to take one

Exiled King

During the days of Ultima Online, a housing shortage was always present. The only time a house would come up was either:
1) The player sold the deed for a set price of their choosing.
2) You failed to keep your account active and it would go into decay mode, giving it 30 days to collapse. All items in the house that collapsed were available to anyone who was in the region and came across the ruins. Then you could place your house plot where theirs was.
3) you got lucky and found a random spot somewhere in the world that was in the middle of nowhere.

*You would always find people in their houses crafting or doing something. It made the game feel alive

I feel like it should be like that in AoC too, no everyone will want a house and not everyone will need one. if you can play anywhere then its not really anything special.

Final fantasy had housing they released 4 years ago, at first not everyone could get a house, but then they made it to where anyone could get a house. as nice as it was, it was different shards (load zones) and the residential areas were empty and void of people.

*This made the game feel dead.

Just like in real life, not everyone owns a house....

Frosty_Tips

But UO didn't tie node citizenship to housing. That's the problem with a housing shortage in Ashes (if there was one, though I think my math has belayed that fear as nearly impossible) In other games housing was just a gimmick or gave some convenience but not required. But in Ashes, even the most casual of player will want to be a node citizen, because only by being a citizen do you get a wide array of node benefits, from better trading, to gear and quest lines. So their choice to make housing a requirement for citizenship made it so housing has to be available to all, or we risk scaring off the casuals (node benefits are just that great), which we require those casuals if we're to last as long as WoW. We can't tell a horde of casuals to unit and siege a node and become mayor just so they can rent an apartment, they're casuals, they can barely organize to do a 30 minute delve into a nearby cave for farming.

Frosty_Tips

Edit to my OP reducing freehold possibilities based on a great map done by a Reddit user Noodleguitar. https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/iel5tv/map_segmentation_to_calculate_the_size_of_various/

darthaden

There's also instanced housing that I believe will be unlimited to grant citizenship

Frosty_Tips

@darthaden Instanced housing are what they're calling apartments in nodes. They have a cap per node stage. At tier 3 the cap is 50 apartments. And as the node upgrades, more apartments are automatically added (no exact details given yet). With yet more being possibly constructed if the Mayor chooses to use up one of their few land plots for an Apartment. I have these in the numbers above, which is good because they are the main thing preventing a housing shortage.

CCCorp

it's a very hard thing to balance, provide everyone housing in turn grants all your backers with the ability to use the freehold skin they got with buying in early, making 95% of them happier. On the other hand if you do grant everyone enough land it becomes valued on location only and not on scarcity, making it not as valuable overall, unless you got one heck of a nice view!

Personally i want to have my own freehold, i want to have my own piece of the world, there is enough other reasons out there to fight or move locations other then someone want my special spot xD

Valentine

They can always do instanced neighborhoods in cities if they get too crazy.

Caeryl

Unless mayors all collectively agree to build a bunch of apartments instead of other node features and utilities, there probably won’t be enough houses for everyone to have a house.

Warth

Caeryl wrote: »

Unless mayors all collectively agree to build a bunch of apartments instead of other node features and utilities, there probably won’t be enough houses for everyone to have a house.

houses are severely limited. We also don't have any information on the mayors ability to build static in-node houses in the first place.

They can build apartments though.

Acarith

Looking at those estimates the housing is just over 50-50, in housings favor. Giving about half the players reason to burn the node and the other half to defend. Count the alts and inactive accounts and things start looking up. On thing that may be needed is eviction power to keep the node defenders active. It would mean the fall of a metropolis if housing just filled up with old players that left. Than again that encourages change. But then again if you have a bad mayor that'd happen anyways.

If they do add eviction Mayors would need to be able to tell which land owners are inactive for the entire node regardless of guild.

Another thing Freeholds can act as Guild Houses. A player concept from ESO that gives plenty of players the ability to not care about their houses because they can get the same services in someone else's home without needing to dedicate time or materials.
In ESO the housing is unlimited, but quite expensive. Players can teleport to a friend or guildies house to get a free rider experience.

winner909098

Acarith wrote: »

Looking at those estimates the housing is just over 50-50, in housings favor. Giving about half the players reason to burn the node and the other half to defend. Count the alts and inactive accounts and things start looking up. On thing that may be needed is eviction power to keep the node defenders active. It would mean the fall of a metropolis if housing just filled up with old players that left. Than again that encourages change. But then again if you have a bad mayor that'd happen anyways.

If they do add eviction Mayors would need to be able to tell which land owners are inactive for the entire node regardless of guild.

Another thing Freeholds can act as Guild Houses. A player concept from ESO that gives plenty of players the ability to not care about their houses because they can get the same services in someone else's home without needing to dedicate time or materials.
In ESO the housing is unlimited, but quite expensive. Players can teleport to a friend or guildies house to get a free rider experience.

that is a good idea, but it should only be available to mayors on accounts that have been inactive for a while.

Frosty_Tips

Acarith wrote: »

If they do add eviction Mayors would need to be able to tell which land owners are inactive for the entire node regardless of guild.

Another thing Freeholds can act as Guild Houses.

Nice I like the guild house idea, like a hostel where especially guilds that focus on being a casual friendly guild, part of their lore is that joining them gives you access to a free bed and lockable chest in our guild freehold and with that comes citizenship to a node, just need to have a cap on how many.

On the topic of cleaning out inactivate accounts who hold valuable housing, do you think that will take care of itself because this is a subscription based game? Most inactives will stop paying the $15/mo so after a month the house will fail to pay its weekly maintenance bill and become abandoned.

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