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Apple/ Epic Lawsuit - How will it affect Unreal Engine and the Development of Ashes of Creation?

SendbackupSendbackup Member
edited August 2020 in General Discussion
As the lawsuit between Epic Games and Apple ramp up, there are a number of articles and you tube videos doing the rounds as to how the big apple blocking Epic from development tools will dramatically and critically infringe on any development company using the Unreal Engine from here on in for the foreseeable future of the lawsuit and beyond.

Perhaps it would be great if Steven could make a statement or address this topic in the upcoming AMA as to how this landmark case will affect (or not affect) the development of Ashes of Creation.

"On Monday, Epic said that Apple threatened not only to remove Fortnite, but to disable the company’s developer accounts entirely. This would essentially make the Unreal Engine a dead-end technology on the iPhone and Mac, according to Epic.

“When Apple terminates Epic’s Apple Developer Program accounts, the consequences will be devastating,” Epic CEO Tim Sweeney wrote in a filing on Monday. “Without access to these SDKs, APIs, and other tools, Epic would be unable to develop future updates to the Unreal Engine for use on iOS and macOS, and would thus be forced to discontinue Unreal Engine for iOS and macOS.”


Personally I dont believe it should providing that Intrepid are not customising the Unreal Engine and can continue with development unaffected. Am I wrong?

Example article:
https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/23/21397369/epic-apple-fortnite-lawsuit-ios-microsoft-developer-tax

Edit: Ive added in a quote as there is some confusion that this ONLY affects mobile games.
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Comments

  • RiverRiver Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    It won't, ashes isn't a mobile game...
  • OnyStyleOnyStyle Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    What River said. Also, the ashes team IS in fact customizing unreal engine to suit their needs.
  • SendbackupSendbackup Member
    edited August 2020
    River wrote: »
    It won't, ashes isn't a mobile game...

    OnyStyle wrote: »
    What River said. Also, the ashes team IS in fact customizing unreal engine to suit their needs.

    Yes indeed this is not a mobile game. You need to read the quote above. If a company uses MacOS for any aspect of development EPIC will not be able to support it and render MAC tool obsolete.
  • BaSkA_9x2BaSkA_9x2 Member, Alpha Two
    If Apple wants to fight Epic and by consequence prematurely end UE's development in macOS, there's nothing IS can do, really. Ashes might or might not work in macOS, especially in future updates and/or engine upgrades.

    It's up to Apple's customers to either make some noise or stop buying their products. More power to other Unix based operational systems and Windows.
    🎶Galo é Galo o resto é bosta🎶
  • LfmrLfmr Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    It is unlikely the lawsuit will negatively effect AoC in anyway, in fact it is more likely to cause good rather then bad with all of the publicity epic and UE is garnering from the lawsuit.
  • RockwellRockwell Member, Alpha Two
    The most this will affect AoC is their planned (hopeful) of some mobile integration. I can't remember the specifics except the tavern games. Not being available on MacOS is a non issue since they'll just run windows to play the game, however I doubt there is a sizeable percentage of Mac users planning on playing.

    After the UE5 demo I cannot wait to see how Ashes will look a year or so after release.
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Thank god I'm an android user.
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  • BobzUrUncleBobzUrUncle Member, Alpha Two
    Who cares. It won't be a mobile game, and it is releasing on Windows. That would just mean that Linux people would probably get the port first.
  • cyanideinsanitycyanideinsanity Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    As far as the mmo goes intrepid hasn't even committed to a mac, or linux, release.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    This lawsuit will have no impact at all on people that are using uE on PC's to create a game for PC's.

    Intrepid use UE on PC to create a game for PC's, and so this should have no impact on them.

    The worst thing I can think of potentially happening is if they have a few artists that prefer to use a Mac. This lawsuit may see them have to transition over to PC.

    It may also mean this game will never come out on Mac - but since Apple are moving over to ARM over Intel, that was unlikely to ever happen anyway.
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Apple software sucks anyway. Ashes isn’t gonna be affected at all.
  • CaptnChuckCaptnChuck Member
    edited August 2020
    Why would you ever play any PC game on a mac laptop? They get super hot and are extremely over-priced. Also most mac laptops come with super low end graphics cards, so you're not going to be able to play the game comfortably anyways.

    Now if you're using an Apple PC, then that's just unfortunate.
  • nidriksnidriks Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited August 2020
    Windows has a near 90% share of the personal computer market (as of September 2019). It will mean next to nothing for Ashes.

    I once had an IPad and used Itunes. One day I got a sony walkman mp3 instead. I had to charge it once a week at most. My Ipod I had to charge daily.

    I will never understand why people love Apple so much.
  • BobzUrUncleBobzUrUncle Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    This lawsuit will have no impact at all on people that are using uE on PC's to create a game for PC's.

    Intrepid use UE on PC to create a game for PC's, and so this should have no impact on them.

    The worst thing I can think of potentially happening is if they have a few artists that prefer to use a Mac. This lawsuit may see them have to transition over to PC.

    It may also mean this game will never come out on Mac - but since Apple are moving over to ARM over Intel, that was unlikely to ever happen anyway.

    The bonus is that most people who like Macs are the artists anyways (not sure why, Windows is just as good for graphics). They can still do their art on their Macs, and just import the final figures into the MMO.
  • I was worried for a minute but then I read it's tied to Apple OS's only (iOS, MAC). I'm relieved.
    "Magic is not a tool, little one. It is a river that unites us in its current."

    I heard a bird ♫
  • Caeryl wrote: »
    Apple software sucks anyway. Ashes isn’t gonna be affected at all.

    First off, really must we go there?

    And secondly, no Apple software doesn't suck. Just because YOU don't personally use something is not a reason to disparage it.

    I have an iPhone and most likely will not be effected by this since I don't use my phone to play games. That's why I have a PC ;)
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  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    PlagueMonk wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Apple software sucks anyway. Ashes isn’t gonna be affected at all.

    First off, really must we go there?

    And secondly, no Apple software doesn't suck. Just because YOU don't personally use something is not a reason to disparage it.

    I have an iPhone and most likely will not be effected by this since I don't use my phone to play games. That's why I have a PC ;)

    I also have an iPhone. That’s why I say with confidence: Apple software sucks.

    At least the phones don’t explode anymore, that was a wild time.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Caeryl wrote: »
    PlagueMonk wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Apple software sucks anyway. Ashes isn’t gonna be affected at all.

    First off, really must we go there?

    And secondly, no Apple software doesn't suck. Just because YOU don't personally use something is not a reason to disparage it.

    I have an iPhone and most likely will not be effected by this since I don't use my phone to play games. That's why I have a PC ;)

    I also have an iPhone. That’s why I say with confidence: Apple software sucks.

    At least the phones don’t explode anymore, that was a wild time.

    I had an iPhone once too, and I can say with confidence that Apple software sucks too.

    Worse than that, the company sucks. I could forgive the software sucking if they were actually trying to make an over all better experience for their users. Sadly, they are only working on giving the appearance of a better experience for their users, rather than actually caring about that experience.

    This is why I no longer have an iPhone.

    What I can't understand at all is any person that uses an Apple product at all any more.

    The design flaws of their phones and laptops are well documented, and their repair program is so poor it is borderline illegal (and this is a fact being challenged in court).

    How any person could look at that and still buy one of their products is beyond me - let alone continue to defend the company.
  • Well the judge just recently ruled it so that apple cannot restrict Epic's access to UE ios tools. So there's nothing to worry about.
  • Get a real pc and not get apple. Fuck apple they are the most anti consumer company I've ever seen in my life. Only company that overcharges for an inferior product compared to every other competitor. They do this by like 400 to 800 dollar differences. I don't even accept calls from my friends who use apple products cuz I can't hear crap of what they are saying.

    This probably won't affect the game at all. Even people with Apple run windows on dual OS.
    zZJyoEK.gif

    U.S. East
  • MaezrielMaezriel Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Man there's a lot of pointless Apple hate in this thread. "Lul ApPlE BaD" is in no way relevant to what OP was asking seeing has how Mac dominates that artist market and, believe it or not, most games need art.

    For those who want to keep joking about AoC not being a mobile game, Apple wanted to pull support for Unreal on all Macs. That could be devastating to many artist and developers who utilize Macs, and although an IoS release wasn't the priority Steven had said that he's interested in looking into Mac and Linux ports in the future.

    For OP, a Judge ruled that Apple cannot block the Unreal Engine so the effect to Intrepid should be minimal.
    ZeFuP1X.png
    If I said something that you disagree w/ feel free to say so here.
  • You're telling me AoC isn't an auto-play gacha MMORPG on mobile?

    Crying.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited August 2020
    Maezriel wrote: »
    Man there's a lot of pointless Apple hate in this thread.
    The Apple hate isn't pointless.

    The hate is for things like this
    Apple wanted to pull support for Unreal on all Macs.
    That is a damn good point to hate a company for.

    To make it even worse, this is just par for the course for Apple. They get away with this kind of thing all the time - except this time they made the mistake of going up against a company with Tencent behind them (not that Tencent are any better - though they are also no worse).
  • MaezrielMaezriel Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    Maezriel wrote: »
    Man there's a lot of pointless Apple hate in this thread.
    The Apple hate isn't pointless.

    The hate is for things like this
    Apple wanted to pull support for Unreal on all Macs.
    That is a damn good point to hate a company for.

    To make it even worse, this is just par for the course for Apple. They get away with this kind of thing all the time - except this time they made the mistake of going up against a company with Tencent behind them (not that Tencent are any better - though they are also no worse).

    Here's a summary of the complaints against Apple
    Get a real pc and not get apple
    Who cares. It won't be a mobile game

    and
    Apple software sucks anyway.

    I don't care for Apple products myself, but when the complaints aren't in the context of OPs post they're pretty pointless.
    ZeFuP1X.png
    If I said something that you disagree w/ feel free to say so here.
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Maezriel wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Maezriel wrote: »
    Man there's a lot of pointless Apple hate in this thread.
    The Apple hate isn't pointless.

    The hate is for things like this
    Apple wanted to pull support for Unreal on all Macs.
    That is a damn good point to hate a company for.

    To make it even worse, this is just par for the course for Apple. They get away with this kind of thing all the time - except this time they made the mistake of going up against a company with Tencent behind them (not that Tencent are any better - though they are also no worse).

    Here's a summary of the complaints against Apple
    Get a real pc and not get apple
    Who cares. It won't be a mobile game

    and
    Apple software sucks anyway.

    I don't care for Apple products myself, but when the complaints aren't in the context of OPs post they're pretty pointless.

    Why didn’t you include the quote about the iphones literally exploding
  • MaezrielMaezriel Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Caeryl wrote: »

    Why didn’t you include the quote about the iphones literally exploding

    For the same reason I didn't quote nearly this entire thread in one comment.

    It's not relevant to the question stated.

    We could also go on a tangent about how Samsung had pocket bombs as well or how as early as May researchers found over 24,000 android apps that leaked customer data. Neither Android or Apple are squeaky clean and neither is worse than the other.

    But again, not relevant to the lawsuit which the biggest impact would've been if Apple was able to go through and wholly block the Unreal Engine. Now the worry would be if Steven and the devs decided that porting over to Unity would be the right pick just in case the lawsuit goes any further south, but w/ a Judge protecting Unreal there's likely not a whole lot to worry about.
    ZeFuP1X.png
    If I said something that you disagree w/ feel free to say so here.
  • VentharienVentharien Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Maezriel wrote: »
    It's not relevant to the question stated.

    We could also go on a tangent about how Samsung had pocket bombs as well or how as early as May researchers found over 24,000 android apps that leaked customer data. Neither Android or Apple are squeaky clean and neither is worse than the other.

    But again, not relevant to the lawsuit which the biggest impact would've been if Apple was able to go through and wholly block the Unreal Engine. Now the worry would be if Steven and the devs decided that porting over to Unity would be the right pick just in case the lawsuit goes any further south, but w/ a Judge protecting Unreal there's likely not a whole lot to worry about.

    It became a people don't like Apple thread because the OP's question posed no valid connection to Ashes, other than the lawsuit included UE's owner. Ashes isn't being developed for mac, and it isn't a mobile game.

    So now it's just people wondering at Apples market share and people defending it.
  • Ventharien wrote: »
    Maezriel wrote: »
    It's not relevant to the question stated.

    We could also go on a tangent about how Samsung had pocket bombs as well or how as early as May researchers found over 24,000 android apps that leaked customer data. Neither Android or Apple are squeaky clean and neither is worse than the other.

    But again, not relevant to the lawsuit which the biggest impact would've been if Apple was able to go through and wholly block the Unreal Engine. Now the worry would be if Steven and the devs decided that porting over to Unity would be the right pick just in case the lawsuit goes any further south, but w/ a Judge protecting Unreal there's likely not a whole lot to worry about.

    Ashes isn't being developed for mac, and it isn't a mobile game.

    A lot of developers use Mac OS to develop games. So if apple bans UE, it will affect a ton of developers around the world. But they can't, cuz the judge just recently ruled it so.
  • GrimmLibertyGrimmLiberty Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    What always strikes me in post like this, besides the epic fail fear mongering, is the white knighting because someone else holds a different opinion. You know you really don't "have to be right", ignore them. LAWLZ
  • tugowartugowar Member, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited August 2020
    Epic's wrong. Fortnite will lose.

    Epic won't lose iOS/MacOS access.

    There you go. Saved you all years of heartache.

    Virtue is the only good.
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