Racial augments - balance

I know that this will be strange for many people lurking in this forum - so please just acknowledge that this the way I like to play and enjoy games so please don't post here at all if you want to tell me that I play games in the wrong way.

I want to choose race with the best bonuses for the class I want to play. In wow it is just insignificant stat bonus or/and a bonus skill that increases stat for short period of time (or some utility ability). In eso (2nd mmo i've played more than just log for few hours to try out) you basically choose the race for best stamina/magicka bonuses that fit the class and role you plan to play.

However I am interested in the way they want to implement the racial augments. Utility, resource cost, number value, range and speed are values that can make a tremendous impact on the combat effectivity of builds. I am completely fine if different races are going to be better for different builds that are best for the particular node I will be playing in. I can plan around that and have fun with that. What I don't want to see is constant rebalancing of racial augments. Rebalancing builds and skills is not a bad thing, that just happens and I've learned to live with that. What I don't want to see in the game is to reevaluate the racial power every time that patch comes out.

Average player picks the race for aesthetics anyway, so it would be great to see the racial augments as a constant in the world. Afterall in most fantasy worlds elves are the best archers and not rebalanced from generation to generation

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

CaptnChuck

I don't think its right to say that a particular race is going to be best for a particular "class". I think its more appropriate to say that a particular race will be better for a particular "playstyle". This is because different classes have different playstyles. So depending on how you intend to play your class, certain races may be more valuable due to their stat distribution.

EDIT - edited my reply as it didn't convey what I intended correctly

Hurf Derfman

I think it's fair to say how WoW constantly rebalances their classes is on par with an abusive ex.

I am dying to know more about the augments. Particularly the racial ones. They're going to compete with the secondary class augments, no?

I still think 4 for your class combo is... Ambitious. With racial that gives you five options. Nevermind the vague insinuation there may also be more from social orders. Whatever that is.

Doubt we'll learn anything until they put together all the base archetypes.

Aardvark

CaptnChuck wrote: »

No race is going to be best for a particular "class". But a race can be better for a particular "playstyle". This is because different races will have different base stat allocations and different abilities. As to whether these abilities will be significant in battle or not, we simply don't know yet.

They have specifically said the opposite...
"Some classes may work better with certain races "

So yes some classes will have a best race

Damokles

Aardvark wrote: »

CaptnChuck wrote: »

No race is going to be best for a particular "class". But a race can be better for a particular "playstyle". This is because different races will have different base stat allocations and different abilities. As to whether these abilities will be significant in battle or not, we simply don't know yet.

They have specifically said the opposite...
"Some classes may work better with certain races "

So yes some classes will have a best race

Tulnar will obviously be the best race for every class.

Now seriously, this is how I will imagine most races to be set up from a base attribute and augmentation stile:

Humans - Balanced Stats, aoe buff augment that stacks with more humans (WE ARE THE NEVER ENDING TIDE, WE MULTIPLY LIKE BUNNIES)

Elves - focus on dex and int lower strength or constitution, augment something with druidic (wood elves) or arcane magic (empire elves)

Dwarves - focus on constitution and strength, augment something with damage reduction (mountain dwarves) or cc removing effects (nikua)

Orcs - focus on constitution and strength, augment somehing with either healing (vek) or berserk (renkai)

Tulnar - focus on dex and constitution, augments something with survivability, maybe movementspeed buff or shortlived stealth during standing still

CaptnChuck

@Aardvark

Yea but you can play classes differently. You can be a burst mage or a tank mage depending on the gear that you wear, passive/active skills, etc. So say elves have more magic dmg stats and that renkai have higher defensive stats. Depending on how you intend to play mage, both can be good. So i think its more appropriate to say that different races will be better for different playstyles than to say that a particular race will be better for a particular class.

Hurf Derfman

CaptnChuck wrote: »

@Aardvark

Yea but you can play classes differently. You can be a burst mage or a tank mage depending on the gear that you wear, passive/active skills, etc. So say elves have more magic dmg stats and that renkai have higher defensive stats. Depending on how you intend to play mage, both can be good. So i think its more appropriate to say that different races will be better for different playstyles than to say that a particular race will be better for a particular class.

I honestly love this approach.
Rather than saying dwarfs suck at magic, instead it's dwarfs use magic differently.

Kneczhevo

Race and base class seem to be the only static things (wrong wording...) In AoC. I am so hard up to see what these offer, before I make my toons(s).

Yes, I am a min/maxer. Who isn't? If you aren't, your lying to yourself. Lol.

Nothing like making a toon, with a concept (ie. Dual wielding orc with crop top hairdoo.) And later finding out, my race prefers to cast spells, and I'll be using a staff instead.

Sure, it's fun to make a Hobbit tank or an oger Jedi. But those aren't serious toons to take to a raid or do a really difficult tasks. When I am killing a balrog I might need that +1 racial for that extra umph.

Are people being "forced" to play min/max? Not at all. Remember, I have those silly alts to twink, and they will get their share of attention. But, my main needs these numbers, as it's my best and I want it to be the best.

Hurf Derfman

Kneczhevo wrote: »

Race and base class seem to be the only static things (wrong wording...) In AoC. I am so hard up to see what these offer, before I make my toons(s).

Yes, I am a min/maxer. Who isn't? If you aren't, your lying to yourself. Lol.

Nothing like making a toon, with a concept (ie. Dual wielding orc with crop top hairdoo.) And later finding out, my race prefers to cast spells, and I'll be using a staff instead.

Sure, it's fun to make a Hobbit tank or an oger Jedi. But those aren't serious toons to take to a raid or do a really difficult tasks. When I am killing a balrog I might need that +1 racial for that extra umph.

Are people being "forced" to play min/max? Not at all. Remember, I have those silly alts to twink, and they will get their share of attention. But, my main needs these numbers, as it's my best and I want it to be the best.

But what if the Hobbit tank had extra avoidance and the ogre Jedi had longer reach and higher melee damage?

I get the "just because you can steer a car with your feet" argument. We just don't have enough info on how class info to rip into anything.

Trust me I want that very much 😁

Tragnar

Totally agree, but what if tank best stat is stacking max hp and Jedi best stat is small size and fast attack speed?

As I see it, it will all come down to the game mechanics

Grox

Damokles wrote: »

Aardvark wrote: »

CaptnChuck wrote: »

No race is going to be best for a particular "class". But a race can be better for a particular "playstyle". This is because different races will have different base stat allocations and different abilities. As to whether these abilities will be significant in battle or not, we simply don't know yet.

They have specifically said the opposite...
"Some classes may work better with certain races "

So yes some classes will have a best race

Tulnar will obviously be the best race for every class.

Now seriously, this is how I will imagine most races to be set up from a base attribute and augmentation stile:

Humans - Balanced Stats, aoe buff augment that stacks with more humans (WE ARE THE NEVER ENDING TIDE, WE MULTIPLY LIKE BUNNIES)

Elves - focus on dex and int lower strength or constitution, augment something with druidic (wood elves) or arcane magic (empire elves)

Dwarves - focus on constitution and strength, augment something with damage reduction (mountain dwarves) or cc removing effects (nikua)

Orcs - focus on constitution and strength, augment somehing with either healing (vek) or berserk (renkai)

Tulnar - focus on dex and constitution, augments something with survivability, maybe movementspeed buff or shortlived stealth during standing still

I like those and that sounds like it could be right. I really like the Tulnar ones you said. Those interest me the most. Here's hoping we can play as tiny Frognar Tulnar.

Anyway I wanted to say your human one got me laughing xD . I agree. I would say for humans some kind of bonus exp and gold gain would be fitting too. Even bonus to node growth with more humans could be fitting. Some racials to fit our quick learning/adapting, expansionism, and greedy nature.

Damokles

Grox wrote: »

Damokles wrote: »

Aardvark wrote: »

CaptnChuck wrote: »

No race is going to be best for a particular "class". But a race can be better for a particular "playstyle". This is because different races will have different base stat allocations and different abilities. As to whether these abilities will be significant in battle or not, we simply don't know yet.

They have specifically said the opposite...
"Some classes may work better with certain races "

So yes some classes will have a best race

Tulnar will obviously be the best race for every class.

Now seriously, this is how I will imagine most races to be set up from a base attribute and augmentation stile:

Humans - Balanced Stats, aoe buff augment that stacks with more humans (WE ARE THE NEVER ENDING TIDE, WE MULTIPLY LIKE BUNNIES)

Elves - focus on dex and int lower strength or constitution, augment something with druidic (wood elves) or arcane magic (empire elves)

Dwarves - focus on constitution and strength, augment something with damage reduction (mountain dwarves) or cc removing effects (nikua)

Orcs - focus on constitution and strength, augment somehing with either healing (vek) or berserk (renkai)

Tulnar - focus on dex and constitution, augments something with survivability, maybe movementspeed buff or shortlived stealth during standing still

I like those and that sounds like it could be right. I really like the Tulnar ones you said. Those interest me the most. Here's hoping we can play as tiny Frognar Tulnar.

Anyway I wanted to say your human one got me laughing xD . I agree. I would say for humans some kind of bonus exp and gold gain would be fitting too. Even bonus to node growth with more humans could be fitting. Some racials to fit our quick learning/adapting, expansionism, and greedy nature.

Well, the thing for Tulnar is that you need something to fit all 3 different races that they are made up off.
Humanoid, Lizard and Mammal.

Most of them would need something like survivability or adaptability down in the deep dark, or they would not have survived in a way more dangerous world. Survival of the fittest so to speak.

Another way that Tulnar could go would be something REALLY magic focused. Remember, none of the races that came back to Vera had any magic in sanctus.
Tulnar should have some kind of headstart for magic. Polymorph and magical invisibility would really fit the mark there. They would use it to hide their towns and cities from predatory wildlife in the caves. Hiding themselves should be something that would come easy to them.

Hurf Derfman

Tragnar wrote: »

Totally agree, but what if tank best stat is stacking max hp and Jedi best stat is small size and fast attack speed?

As I see it, it will all come down to the game mechanics

Oh absolutely. I hate it when min/maxing is a by product of lazy design.

To play off your great example.

The Hobbit tank would have to gain enough avoidance to offset the lack of total HP, but not so much that it become the meta. The ogre Jedi would have to hit hard enough to offset the slower swing speed. Like a dagger and a great sword with the same dps.

Slippery slope this stuff. 😆

Tragnar

Hurf Derfman wrote: »

The Hobbit tank would have to gain enough avoidance to offset the lack of total HP, but not so much that it become the meta. The ogre Jedi would have to hit hard enough to offset the slower swing speed. Like a dagger and a great sword with the same dps.

Slippery slope this stuff. 😆

Tbh you can't balance bonus hp racial vs avoidance racial, because from tanking perspective you always want to prevent getting oneshot, not to make healers life easier. so unless avoidance racial is ridicilously high it will be always inferior for a tank

Hurf Derfman

Tragnar wrote: »

Hurf Derfman wrote: »

The Hobbit tank would have to gain enough avoidance to offset the lack of total HP, but not so much that it become the meta. The ogre Jedi would have to hit hard enough to offset the slower swing speed. Like a dagger and a great sword with the same dps.

Slippery slope this stuff. 😆

Tbh you can't balance bonus hp racial vs avoidance racial, because from tanking perspective you always want to prevent getting oneshot, not to make healers life easier. so unless avoidance racial is ridicilously high it will be always inferior for a tank

Good point.
AoC will have avoidance tanks.
🙂🙃🙂🙃

PlagueMonk

Damokles wrote: »

Aardvark wrote: »

CaptnChuck wrote: »

No race is going to be best for a particular "class". But a race can be better for a particular "playstyle". This is because different races will have different base stat allocations and different abilities. As to whether these abilities will be significant in battle or not, we simply don't know yet.

They have specifically said the opposite...
"Some classes may work better with certain races "

So yes some classes will have a best race

Tulnar will obviously be the best race for every class.

See, @Damokles knows the REAL truth!

Child Item