Concerns regarding servers longevity

First of all, I would like to point out that I am a PVP player.

With that being said, recently after hearing out some PVE players I have been thinking about something that might be a big issue for AoC - and that is server longevity.

I am familiar with the corruption system, and that everything will be tested and all that good stuff, but the truth is, If people decide to be assholes, there's nothing stopping them. Guilds will have the power to kill a server's population if they want to, and the only thing stopping them is common sense - which may, or may not work out very well.

Am I the only one with this concern? I really think this is something that should be taken into consideration, maybe a mechanic of having Guild corruption based on what your members are doing, or some accountability for what guilds do to their server should be a thing, somehow.

Don't get me wrong I'm the guy that's gonna flag up and murder you if I want some resource that you are farming, I do enjoy engaging in PVP, killing someone every now and then, and I think the corruption system is awesome, I'm just afraid of the impact that assholes that enjoy killing low-level players, griefing and harassing can have in a Server, especially with server transfers not being possible.

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TheGoodzilla

I think that the community will sort of regulate itself in publicly identifying bad actors, and then you will get the whole "gank the gankers" thing.

But perhaps as it relates to certain nodes being held by a specific guild ad infinitum, maybe they could implement a decay system.

Like, in order to foster nodes changing over occasionally, build in some kind of mechanic where (example) after a node has been held for 100 days irl, some element is introduced making it harder to hold onto and more prone to being seiged (although not necessarily easier to be taken over by seige). This way every so often there is a guarantee that nodes that have been stagnant will be vulnerable to changing hands, keeping the process on a contuinally refreshing cycle.

Or maybe this specific idea is horrible. But the concept, at least, I think is worth considering.

Warth

Don't get me wrong I'm the guy that's gonna flag up and murder you if I want some resource that you are farming, I do enjoy engaging in PVP, killing someone every now and then, and I think the corruption system is awesome, I'm just afraid of the impact that assholes that enjoy killing low-level players, griefing and harassing can have in a Server, especially with server transfers not being possible.

And the way you are playing is completely intended and fine. That's not being an asshole, that utilizing the game mechanics the way they are intended to.

Killing low level players can be easily avoided:

Normal Corruption if he is inbetween 41 and 50
x2 the Corruption if he is inbetween 36 and 40
x4 the Corruption if the killed player is inbetween 31 and 35
x8 the Corruption if the killed player is inbetween 21 and 30
x20 the Corruption if the killed player is between 11 and 20
x50 the Corruption if the killed players is between 1 and 10

This would however, cause the problem that some people might intentionally jump into the AoE of High Level Players with their Level 1 Accounts to get them corrupted heavily.

To combat this, i'd propose a simple measure: Add a Checkbox, where you can specify, that your AoEs don't hit green enemies that are 10+, 15+, 20+ or 30+ Levels below you. Bonus points, if they enter a text-field that allows you to choose the Level Difference flexibly.

The same way they already have the checkbox, to accidentally prevent you from attacking any green through unintended AoEs, you'd simply split that into level ranges.

Advantages:

People that want to Bomb a group of Low Levels with an AoE completely can, if they choose to
People that do kill low levels intentionally will get severely f*cked.
People can't abuse the high Corruption penalties by karma bombing someone with a Level 1 character.

Hurf Derfman

@Liniker
Corruption only happens if the other player does not fight back/engage.

AoC will have a complex flagging hierarchy.
For example you are in a guild that has a rival guild declare war in yours, everybody in that guild will be fair game. There will also be node wars, religious wars and quite possibly family wars. These are just the ones hinted at.

There will also be a bounty system to hunt the corrupted.

Triple

They could always beef up the corruption system's penalty if this becomes an issue but I think that most will know when the start playing that this game is basically open world PVP game and that, well..PvP is gonna happen.

Hurf Derfman

@TheGoodzilla
Eventually nodes will grow too large for one single guild to completely populate.

Castles are for what you're thinking of, and those can be sieged.

mcstackerson

Your guild example is kind of a dooms day scenario. It's like saying a guild in wow could take all the good players and not invite anyone else so no one else can raid. While it could happen, it's not really a thing and if it even became close to a thing, there are ways to remedy it.

Some of us even look forward to guilds trying to take over. Those events will become part of the server history.

I think you should define asshole. The corruption system is supposed to deter pvp, not completely stop it. It's there to allow open pvp but prevent it from becoming a giant free for all. Keep in mind that this isn't wow and pvp is supposed to be part of the game. It's not just something you do in the open world to waste some time. There will be reasons you might want fight in the world.

Another thing to think about is there are more forms of pvp then corruption, most of which are more damaging than the corruption system. You can get your whole node destroyed. If you really want to be an asshole, there are better ways of doing it.

Hurf Derfman

The early life cycle of a server will basically be the wild west. During the first month or so villages will start to pop up their neighbors growth may affect their own villages growth so if a nearby node is bigger than yours but not growing fast enough to where it's stagnating the growth of your village you may want to rally together and burn that sucker down.

There are five castles in the world meaning there's basically going to be 5 regions where towns will fall under that castles rule. The zone of influence for the largest city possible cover 20% of the globe there can only ever be five of these metropoli.

This is where node alliances and the vassal system come in. On a long enough time scale your region will become allied under 1 Castle, but nothing is permanent and everything can be sieged.

Since so much of this relies on player agency there's no guarantee that any one region will ever have this level of sustainable peace.

Although if things become too static they could always introduce an advanced version of node wars to include node alliances, or kingdom wars. 😁

Kneczhevo

Murder does not equate to PvP. You all are confused.

Corruption occurs when you murder someone outside of the PvP perameters (ie. Siege's, caravans, arenas, wars, etc). You do not gain corruption in these areas. You can still PvP without flagging, even.

There are no arbitrary factions, to bind us to never kill our own kind. We can PvP with anyone, anywhere. Just not all the time. We can even murder anyone, just with consequences . You don't like the consequences? Don't murder anyone.

Kneczhevo

As to server longevity? All depends on population. If the game gets to the point they have to merge servers? That poor game design, and players are leaving the game.

With a pop of 10k+ I doubt one Uber Guild will have that much power to consolidate a whole server. There will be conflict. Someone will eventually not like the leadership.

Besides, the mission statement from Steven is; war. Take that away, and game dies. No loots for joo.

Reglon

I don't think one single guild could get large enough to negatively influence an entire server.

Tyrantor

Lets do away with corruption and just make everyone drop 100% of their gear on death.

Demidreamer

Liniker wrote: »

Don't get me wrong I'm the guy that's gonna flag up and murder you if I want some resource that you are farming, I do enjoy engaging in PVP, killing someone every now and then, and I think the corruption system is awesome, I'm just afraid of the impact that assholes that enjoy killing low-level players, griefing and harassing can have in a Server, especially with server transfers not being possible.

Hello Liniker you can do whatever you want. Just know that the people you are stealing from are the same people that you will be asking for services from, unless your an alt-o-holic. Reputation will have many consequences if you decide to take that path. Remember that are no x-server crap here and no X-fers. Might get pretty lonely when no one will invite you siege day.

Liniker

I think

Reglon wrote: »

I don't think one single guild could get large enough to negatively influence an entire server.

I don't know about that, there are communities with over 10k people, also there are streamers, and I think considering every possible scenario should be something worth doing

Liniker

Demidreamer wrote: »

Liniker wrote: »

Don't get me wrong I'm the guy that's gonna flag up and murder you if I want some resource that you are farming, I do enjoy engaging in PVP, killing someone every now and then, and I think the corruption system is awesome, I'm just afraid of the impact that assholes that enjoy killing low-level players, griefing and harassing can have in a Server, especially with server transfers not being possible.

Hello Liniker you can do whatever you want. Just know that the people you are stealing from are the same people that you will be asking for services from, unless your an alt-o-holic. Reputation will have many consequences if you decide to take that path. Remember that are no x-server crap here and no X-fers. Might get pretty lonely when no one will invite you siege day.

Yes I agreed with that! and I want to maintain good relations, especially on the node where I live! the thing im trying to point out is, there are many people, and guilds that do not care about that nor about ruining the experience for everyone else, and thinking of a scenario where people's toxic behaviour kills a server, is not something completely out of the picture

Kneczhevo

<cringe> I really don't see a guild being able to ruin a whole server. Make it sour... Drive some players, away? Sure.

Most MMORPGs have two factions. In that case, I would say yes. AoC has 5 realms. That really limits power playing. So, no.

"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."

With that said. Anything is possible.

Liniker

Kneczhevo wrote: »

"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."

With that said. Anything is possible.

! that's all I'm saying

darthaden

Server longevity is a concern of mine as well but not for the specific reason you listed. Every game will eventually lose players there's no avoiding it. most games I've played when this happens they've simply merged dying servers to boost the population on the surviving servers. With the node and housing system in Ashes if this happens it will cause issues. Lets say my guild owns a castle on a dying server or I have a mansion in a metropolis and my server is the one that gets the ax. My guild is out a castle and I'm out a mansion without the ability to fight to defend either. I hope that they take this into consideration and figure out some way to compensate those effected if/when servers need to be merged.....maybe give the guilds that are out a castle because of the server merge guaranteed first shot at trying to siege the same castle on their new server and some free siege equipment or something.

Hurf Derfman

Kneczhevo wrote: »

<cringe> I really don't see a guild being able to ruin a whole server. Make it sour... Drive some players, away? Sure.

Most MMORPGs have two factions. In that case, I would say yes. AoC has 5 realms. That really limits power playing. So, no.

"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."

With that said. Anything is possible.

Oh gee that sure is a nice caravan you got there, sure would be a shame those goods never made it to the monarch. 😈

It would take exactly one Derfman of Loxsly or a Hurfis Kahn (if you will) to start a revolution and splinter local alliances testing their defences and disrupting supply chains.

Or pull a Dread Pirate Derfman sack and coastal nodes and trade ships. Steal their resources and wealth and use it against them.

Mega guilds usually rely on zerg tactics will an abundance of cannon fodder players. There is usually a very strict hierarchy and AoC will have so many spinning plates they simply won't be able to keep everyone fed, and how long would most people just sit at the bottom of the food chain?

@Liniker go watch 300, Braveheart, or even Spartacus (the Kirk Douglas movie, not the skinamax show.) And get pumped for asymmetrical warfare.

Hurf Derfman

@Liniker WWVD?
What would Vegeta do? Just roll over and let Frieza take all the Dragon Balls?

Kneczhevo

@Hurf Derfman

You realize, the caravan system (loot pinatas) are the center point to all events in AoC?

So, you threatening me, with raiding my caravan. You better be prepared to back that up. Because we are coming for your caravans. Don't forget, those phat loots you just raided from my caravan? How you gonna get them home? See you on the trail, my friend.

If I can't muster enough peeps to keep the bullies away, I'm doing a bad job leading.

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