ON/OFF Toggle option for micro-transactions skins (game design philosophy for Steven)

Intro

Firstly, let me start off by saying that I am extremely passionate about this game, and that I am looking forward having a place in Ashes for many years to come. I commend all of you developers for your creativity, passion and hard work. I am glad to have found a project sharing the same vision and values as I do regarding the mmorpg genre. But... please bear with me.

Body

1) You often talk about old-school gamers, old-school game values and principles, which is exactly why many of us are excited for this game. Back to the roots of mmorpg's. Yet I am extremely scared of micro-transactions ruining this very promising game, as in both immersion and therefore experience. I myself stopped playing WoW, Rift, Lotro, and other games, as soon as micro-transactions appeared and shortly thereafter became normalized.
It's only cosmetics you and others say, but being constantly reminded of the presence of micro-transactions as well as knowing people out there can and are spending real life money to purchase items is by definition immersion breaking. At least for me, and I know many others who share the same view.

2) So what it comes down to, is helping developers making some additional money on top of the monthly subscriptions, right ? Sure I'm all for that. What else does it do, it allows players to purchase additional skins and appearances should they wish to.
But what about those (mostly old-school players such as myself, I assume) that do not wish to interact with any of those elements. Those who believe that all game rewards should be earned by in-game feats only ? Those that do not wish to see weird outfits or any other kind of crazy or even amazing skins solely available through purchase.

3) I am well aware that any equipped and/or visible micro-transaction also serves as publicity, helping promote and making others want to buy said items. Yet, some players have no intentions of ever purchasing cosmetics.

Suggestion

I would like to propose the following option to you developers : make a cosmetic ON/OFF toggle option in the menus

So that those desiring so are able to filter out seeing ALL purchased mount skins, armors, pets, cosmetics worn and used by others throughout the game world. It should be easy to implement. Make it so that option only allows you to see the base skins of everything.
I'm immersing myself in a fantasy game world, I don't want to see or be reminded of any kind of micro-transaction, skin or that someone just shelled out 30 dollars to buy a building appearance or a nine-tails fox mount. Let us opt-out of this by implementing a toggle feature in the menus. Best of both worlds ! Please.

I would be curious to know what you think of this, Steven.

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Comments

Noaani

We had this discussion a year or so ago on these forums, and Steven weighed in on it.

He said that if people are going to pay money for cosmetics, they should be able to show them off - even at the expense of others who have good reasons to not want to see them (and there are good reasons).

So, this subject is somewhat already decided, even if I completely disagree with the decision made.

FuryBladeborne

Just FYI, weird is unlikely (although I suppose anything could be weird to someone) as Steven is aiming for realistic gear. Costumes may break this though. I don't think we have much info on how realistic costumes will be yet.

Many, if not all cosmetics that can be purchased for cash can be earned in game with a different variation in colors. Skins solely available through purchase may not be common at all.

Steven has talked about being able to turn off cosmetics in the livestreams; and, while I don't remember the exact reasoning he is against it. He would rather people see what players want their characters to be.

Vhaeyne

I am on your side of the argument OP, but we did lose this one for AoC.

Here is some "tin foil hat" good news that is unrelated to the game, but is related to the philosophical argument of "Freedom of expression Vs Freedom of prospective".

When it comes to people being able to express themselves IRL via, clothing style, make-up, ect. We will win the argument in the long term. Things like augmented reality and AI snap-chat filters get more advanced every year. So eventually you will be able to replace all of reality with perspective rules of your choice. This will devaluing everyone's "hard work" when it comes to self expression. If you want to live in a world where everyone dresses in respectable cloths and no one wears make-up you will be free to do so.

Personally I look forward to the day where I don't have to see people in cloths that are way too tight. On the flip side I get to worry about what kind of animal I am when fur-suits look at me, but w/e. #freedom

Mojottv

My main reason for being able to turn cosmetics off, is to be able to see what actual gear players have on them. Unless all gear will look the same 1-10lvl:10-20 etc, as in bdo, then its just plain shit...

Xenotor

Mojottv wrote: »

My main reason for being able to turn cosmetics off, is to be able to see what actual gear players have on them. Unless all gear will look the same 1-10lvl:10-20 etc, as in bdo, then its just plain shit...

Players have buffs that indicate both what type and the rarity of the gear.
That is more then enough
I am also on the site of the Cosmetic buyers. I pay for it so other can see it.

In the end , the game will not make everyone happy and thats good.
IF you cant live with that , then its time to move on. I did the same in quit a few games.

Yuniel

Yeah imposing what you want and pay for onto others is such a great life value and principle. Showing your wealth and superiority. Capitalism 101, even all the way into an immersive fantasy game world. Good for you.

You're what's wrong with gaming in 2020, this micro-transaction culture... Why did I even bother writing this post, it's hopeless.

Marcet

I would prefer if there was no real money shop in the game, cosmetics and stuff.

But it's fine if it brings money to IS and i'ts not too crazy visually. You should deal with it, because the option of having ON/OFF seems very bad and unrealistic, everyone that didnt had cosmetics would have it off and viceversa. Just deal with it.

Jackless

Hopefully some day, somebody makes a mod that removes cosmetic clothing like this, only showing base gear.

Yuniel

Well this game won't support mods so... not gonna happen sadly.

BobzUrUncle

You can always plop down $30 million and build the game that you want to play if you don't like this one. Steven pays, Steven says.

Azeem

I'm not a fan of not being able to turn off cosmetics, but thats the least of my concerns. There is going to be so much stuff to do in this game, I don't really think I'll be to concerned that little timmy spent 100$ of daddys money to look like a unicorn.

Mojottv

Xenotor wrote: »

Mojottv wrote: »

My main reason for being able to turn cosmetics off, is to be able to see what actual gear players have on them. Unless all gear will look the same 1-10lvl:10-20 etc, as in bdo, then its just plain shit...

Players have buffs that indicate both what type and the rarity of the gear.
That is more then enough
I am also on the site of the Cosmetic buyers. I pay for it so other can see it.

In the end , the game will not make everyone happy and thats good.
IF you cant live with that , then its time to move on. I did the same in quit a few games.

Well the game is not even out yet, so its early to say if anyone should move on or smthng. All i was doing was offering my opinion on the topic. I understand, that some people that bought the cosmetics, want to show off, but with option on/off they dont actually know if they are or not, as they will have option on. So it doesnt really change their perspective of the game too much.

Xenotor

Mojottv wrote: »

Xenotor wrote: »

Mojottv wrote: »

My main reason for being able to turn cosmetics off, is to be able to see what actual gear players have on them. Unless all gear will look the same 1-10lvl:10-20 etc, as in bdo, then its just plain shit...

Players have buffs that indicate both what type and the rarity of the gear.
That is more then enough
I am also on the site of the Cosmetic buyers. I pay for it so other can see it.

In the end , the game will not make everyone happy and thats good.
IF you cant live with that , then its time to move on. I did the same in quit a few games.

Well the game is not even out yet, so its early to say if anyone should move on or smthng. All i was doing was offering my opinion on the topic. I understand, that some people that bought the cosmetics, want to show off, but with option on/off they dont actually know if they are or not, as they will have option on. So it doesnt really change their perspective of the game too much.

If there is a toggle then yes people would not be sure if their cosmetic is seen.
If they allowed that, i would transmorph my actual gear into the most immersion breaking gear posible and wear my cosmetic over it.

The argument that cosmetics are immersion breaking, while all cosmetics so far look well in place inside the world is a little high stretched.

In the end its an argument of people who bought it to show of the nice cosmetics ans people who dont have the money to spend.
One side is going to win this i put my money on these who will actually spend money on the cosmetic shop.

Yuniel

It's about buying things in a videogames with real money... (which in itself is already ridiculous)... THAT is immersion breaking.

At least let us hide it so those of us that wish to forget and live in ignorance have the option of doing so.

Like all of you people eating meat, but you probably wouldn't want to see how animals are treated and slaughtered right...

Chunks

I don't think it's fair to say that a premium cosmetic is a bad fit for the game without seeing it. In particular, when that monetization is the reason we don't have a sub.

ESO sells cosmetics, and has for a while, that aren't aesthetically abrasive. Maybe there are some, but most of them fit in well. I think that game is an example of this working, albeit they try to take your money around every corner with inflated crafting resources and paid DLC.

If the concern is that players will have things that look neat without any correlation to their accomplishments; well that seems like a sturdier leg to stand on for the moment.

But I do agree in that I'm not interested in seeing somebody in game dressed as something ridiculous like a Christmas Tree or, god help us, rolling through the tundra on a motorcycle or in a car.

3Snap

I see why your asking for this, but it's never going to happen. With a cosmetic store a dev will get more sales if someone is envious of a skin they see on someone and wants to buy it.

Most people are fine with cosmetic skins and don't have a problem with immersion, I don't really care either way tbh.

Littlekenny21

I would pay $40 for the option to turn it off.

This isn't a game going back to old school roots for old school gamers to relive their favourite times in MMOs. If it was, this wouldn't be a discussion. WoW classic has reminded me of the value of having good looking gear through effort and this cosmetic store removes that entire element.

Riegnar

While I 100% Agree with OP on this one.. being forced to see other players' cosmetics in in on itself a form of advertisement of the cosmetic shop that I don't think we'll see ever go away.

Yuniel

They simply shouldn't use the ''old school values and principle, back to the roots, old mmo players tired of this current market'' argument.

Micro-transactions are a plague, even cosmetics only, and even if I was stinky rich I wouldn't buy a single one. It doesn't matter who you are, how rich or why, I don't want to see the skins someone paid for. It wasn't earned in the game world. It's a freaking RPG. Since when is it accepted that a role playing game allows to get out of your role, out of the game world, to buy things with your real life money and bring it inside the game??? ROLE PLAYING GAME allo. By definition, it's wrong.

The fact that we are even having this discussion is additional proof this world we live in is already so far gone, and that people have lost their ways.

Worst case, they could implement a premium feature for having the toggle option idk...

But yeah yeah, I'll just keep quiet and watch events unfold, as many stated before, it's not my company, it's not my game. But seriously, to the devs and game designers, don't use all these ''core values, principles, rpg, old school'' if you can't even fathom the effect micro-transactions can have in RPG's.

Maybe you should re-think some of your ways, and ask yourselves:

- how ''FUN'' is it to see someone with a skin they ''earned'' with real life money
- how ''rewarding'' does it feel to have a skin ''earned'' with real life money
- how fair is it to see someone with a skin they ''earned'' with real life money
- what is the impact of this on character progression, on people's experience both short and long term
- what is the definition of an RPG

So very slowly, that toggle option starts to make a lot of sense

winner909098

Yuniel wrote: »

They simply shouldn't use the ''old school values and principle, back to the roots, old mmo players tired of this current market'' argument.

Micro-transactions are a plague, even cosmetics only, and even if I was stinky rich I wouldn't buy a single one. It doesn't matter who you are, how rich or why, I don't want to see the skins someone paid for. It wasn't earned in the game world. It's a freaking RPG. Since when is it accepted that a role playing game allows to get out of your role, out of the game world, to buy things with your real life money and bring it inside the game??? ROLE PLAYING GAME allo. By definition, it's wrong.

The fact that we are even having this discussion is additional proof this world we live in is already so far gone, and that people have lost their ways.

Worst case, they could implement a premium feature for having the toggle option idk...

But yeah yeah, I'll just keep quiet and watch events unfold, as many stated before, it's not my company, it's not my game. But seriously, to the devs and game designers, don't use all these ''core values, principles, rpg, old school'' if you can't even fathom the effect micro-transactions can have in RPG's.

Maybe you should re-think some of your ways, and ask yourselves:

- how ''FUN'' is it to see someone with a skin they ''earned'' with real life money
- how ''rewarding'' does it feel to have a skin ''earned'' with real life money
- how fair is it to see someone with a skin they ''earned'' with real life money
- what is the impact of this on character progression, on people's experience both short and long term
- what is the definition of an RPG

So very slowly, that toggle option starts to make a lot of sense

The thing is, if I buy/ earn a cosmetic, I want to show it off. I said earned because you can earn cosmetics. this is something that wont change, because Intrepid needs money and this is the best way. You dont want to have PTW, do you?

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