You're making a HUGE mistake choosing not to implement a custom music system

The most recent Q and A:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c7Y-D5R0IY
@1:15:39
Q:"Do you plan to support the ability for players to make custom music in game like the music macro language?"
A:"We have talked about it.. but scope wise I don't know if that is in the cards." "Maybe an expansion for bard later...?" "...Yea.... possibly.."

First off, this answer was BS and you all know it. Notice how uncomfortable and shift-eyed they looked when they started answering this. Notice how he didn't actually say anything about WHY it would take such an unrealistic amount of resources, he just declares that it can't be done.

Don't tell me that nonsense it takes an absurd amount of resources. Depending on how you implement it 99% of it would be a copy-paste job or simply linking and including the appropriate files, all done in a single day, by a single person. Hire me or give me access to your development tools and I could have it done in 6 hours tops, I guarantee.

Also, did you guys think we forgot you're developing THE MOST AMBITIOUS GAME EVER of the MOST AMBITIOUS GENRE OF VIDEO GAME ever??? Don't give me that crap like implementing a few sound effect action states is too much work.

and that "Yea, possibly" about possibly later translates to NO, its not happening and they aren't interested at all. It's obvious by their tone of voice and body language.

So you just lost me as a potential customer, and tens of thousands of other people who do what I do in FFXIV currently.

It's truly a shame you don't see just how much of a positive effect and truly revolutionary social aspect of MMO's this is. It's basically implementing an ENTIRE other game inside the game, and all for an absolutely TRIVIAL amount of development resources. A game where people ENTERTAIN the players of your game, FOR FREE, and will constantly generate and retain people's interest in socializing in towns.

I guess you guys don't like easy money or creating entire new communities that will want to play your game and embracing genuine socialization tools.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Nagash

Noaani wrote: »

Xez wrote: »

Q:"Do you plan to support the ability for players to make custom music in game like the music macro language?"
A:"We have talked about it.. but scope wise I don't know if that is in the cards." "Maybe an expansion for bard later...?" "...Yea.... possibly.."

Oh hey, that is exactly what I have been saying is the best and most likely path for them to take for a few months now.

better than getting a no like I did for my undead

Kuldjux

Noaani wrote: »

Xez wrote: »

Q:"Do you plan to support the ability for players to make custom music in game like the music macro language?"
A:"We have talked about it.. but scope wise I don't know if that is in the cards." "Maybe an expansion for bard later...?" "...Yea.... possibly.."

Oh hey, that is exactly what I have been saying is the best and most likely path for them to take for a few months now.

If they do introduce a system for us to play music, I hope it isn't just limited to the bard class. Maybe limit certain instruments to bard, harp springs to mind, but some instruments and the ability to play them should be available to all classes.

Ravudha

Xez wrote: »

I like how nobody has responded to my actual specific, 2 sentence description of how this could be implemented in a matter of minutes.

When proposing a new feature, even as a novice/noob programmer myself, I'd probably have a few questions:

1. How will toggling to and from music mode be done and when should it be disabled - i.e. when other systems/interactions are in progress - this must be considered for all systems and UI interactions.

2.Does copy pasting existing abilities create any duplicate references that need to be updated/dropped. Would it be easier to create new music keybinds from scratch.

3. How will the music-playing ability be stored in a character's profile at the physical level - is there space or do current DB schemas/data structures need modification. Do any such modifications require other systems to be reworked to use the new schemas/structures.

4. What is the interface for playing music - how much time is required for UI design (e.g. icons for notes and additional panels/buttons in the character UI to access the ability, does it require a rework of the existing character UI layout) - when can this can allocated to the UI designer's schedule.

5. Are there existing music-playing animations available or are new ones required - are instrument models already implemented/planned or do they also need to be created (unless you want people playing music in town with absolutely no visual cues). How much time is needed to create these models/animations and when can it be scheduled.

6. What can players legally play in-game - does this require a consult from the legal team. How much time will be required to update the EULA to reflect terms around playing third-party music.

7. How will music copyright infringements be handled legally - what risks assessments and action plans need to be drawn up to address copyright infringements. Can this be handled by server moderators or do they require additional training for this issue.

8. What is the testing plan for this feature - what can be tested now and what needs to be retested in A1, A2, B1, etc.

9. How will music data be propagated and how far - what are its network performance requirements, how does this impact the performance of other networked data (movement, combat, etc).

Maybe I'm off-base with these considerations, or maybe they end up being non-issues. My guess is more time than a couple of minutes is required when even thinking of adding new feature like this. Then again, only the devs know the ins and outs of their implementation and work schedule, so when Jeff (someone far more experienced than me) says it'll take a lot of resources, I tend to believe him.

Noaani

Kuldjux wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Xez wrote: »

Q:"Do you plan to support the ability for players to make custom music in game like the music macro language?"
A:"We have talked about it.. but scope wise I don't know if that is in the cards." "Maybe an expansion for bard later...?" "...Yea.... possibly.."

Oh hey, that is exactly what I have been saying is the best and most likely path for them to take for a few months now.

If they do introduce a system for us to play music, I hope it isn't just limited to the bard class. Maybe limit certain instruments to bard, harp springs to mind, but some instruments and the ability to play them should be available to all classes.

I agree that bards should have some form of mechanic unique to them with a music system.

To me though, I'd like that to be a system for multiple people to play together. Not sure how I'd implement a system like this, but something to facilitate multiple people playing together that compensates for latency would be an awesome mechanic to make unique to bards.

Darkbreaker

If you were a programmer, then you would know this:
What seems as simple to implement, could be challenging. What may seem as challenging, could be simple to implement.

In my field of work, I make a lot of friends with developers/programmers. We would have discussions like this during off-hours. One time, a couple of users asked for this one particular color to be added to their piece of virtual clothing, for their avatar. To do this, my friend would have to rework the entire customization system from the ground up, because, not only did the original code did not have that in mind for their product, but it also cause bugs around the system due to spaghetti code. Users thought something like this could be implemented in two days. In reality, it would take over 2 months to implement.

You might argue that AoC is still in Alpha, so it should be easier to implement than two years down the line, right? Correct, but we need to remember to take it one step at a time. If we kept trying to add features onto the core features of the game, before it is even fully released, it will become Star Citizen. Let the core features be fully fleshed out and polished before we think about cool ideas like making custom music.

You know of Wizard101? They added something like what you wanted, years down the line from its launch. I don't remember anyone even asking for that feature, but it was added. So, hold onto your idea and remind the developers about it, after the game gets launched, okay? I would also like to have custom music too.

FuryBladeborne

@Xez
IS has a plan for their game that does not currently include a feature that you would like. From your description, it doesn't sound like they had ever considered it. When they responded that such a feature could be possible in the future, you responded by throwing a temper tantrum and trying to make threats while saying that your leaving. Should I just block you?

I don't know who you are, but a quick Google, Twitch and YouTube search of Xez + FFIV yields nothing. Perhaps if you keep your name consistent with that of your claimed followers, your threat could have a little more weight. Though I doubt such a threat would be listened to. It is generally more productive to give rational and logical arguments told from the benefit of the audience than threats.

FliP

Xez wrote: »

I like how nobody has responded to my actual specific, 2 sentence description of how this could be implemented in a matter of minutes.

We got lost in the wall of text.

Too long, didn't read.

BobzUrUncle

Woot! The OP won't be in the game!

Quoted:
"So you just lost me as a potential customer, and tens of thousands of other people who do what I do in FFXIV currently."

Robskulvich

Does it bother anyone else when someone like this decides to speak for "tens of thousands of people"?

Atama

People generally don’t give a crap.

Also the OP is ignorant of LotRO, so they should stay out of this thread.

insomnia

No. There are so many other things they need to work on. This is proberly at the buttom of the list. I'm not sure what could be lower.
And BS you could make it in 6 hours. If you could i bet the result would suck.
Plus losing tens of thousands of other people, over this. I seriously doubt that. Will they lost alot of players due to other things. Absolutely.
You aren't right in the head. You are delusional

Virtek

@Xez

The simple and quick answer is:
Maybe they like the idea but can't decide on any single specific system that feels right. because of this, they're waiting until after launch is over so they can give the thought process the respect it deserves.

The long answer:
If they are in favor of it, they probably don't want a cheesy "copy/paste" system that's exactly like another game. They would likely rather take their time to balance multiple ideas and do some testing as to what system would have a positive influence on immersion for all performers and listeners, while being fun and engaging for the musician.
They also have to think about how the music will get into the game. Midi devices allowed? Would that give too much of an edge to professional musicians that may have already spent hundreds (thousands?) of dollars to buy instruments?
Should the music be produced by notes preprogrammed by the player and then played through a chosen instrument in the game? Perhaps just the simple notes, as you say, that can fill only a handful of spaces on a hotkey bar? Would that limit creative note selection too much?
Can there be accidental discordant notes based on how the person plays? *Should* there be discordant notes?
Should this be limited to the individual player's freehold? Any player's freehold? All taverns both on and off freeholds? Town squares? Worldwide?
How many instruments will be recorded and added? Will they be able to have the key adjusted so that players can actually compose songs alongside other in-game musicians? Can players add their own notes?
Should this be limited to bards only? If expanded to any class, should bards have an "edge" in instrument selection, tonal flexibility, or skill requirements to produce favorable notes?
How might any of that be abused?

It would be a shame if a poor choice in any one of those questions would cause a souring of the feature in nearly every player's minds. It's too bad that they can't be 200 IQ and make all of those decisions perfectly and implement it while still pumping out what is *already* one of the most ambitious games in anyone's mind.

Sometimes, the answer is that they don't want to make a silly decision in haste to add a seemingly simple sounding request.

Tarvald

I would raise a counter to your concern.

Do you believe being able to play the same music you can in Final Fantasy trumps money going to life-skills in the game?

I such as yourself am an avid lover of music but I can recognize that there are more important things at the moment. We need more life skills that directly interact with the world. Sure music does thin in a way, but it is no replacement for things such as fletching, harvesting, wood-working etc etc. They did not give you a hard no, they gave an uneasy not at this time.

Have faith, they're designing a Sandbox, before we have music we must have the depth in the life-skills and combat, nodes etc. Musical addons do not trump those concerns at this time. In my opinion of course.

Child Item