maouw wrote: » Hey man, I think the big issue is that this game is still technically pre-alpha. alpha is normally behind closed doors because it's literally the game's prototype stage. Who knows, there may only be 1 prototype dungeon designed so far. We know for AoC that a team focused on combat has only JUST been announced - so we're all waiting to see what they put together around March next year. Just to re-iterate. It's really abnormal for Game Studios to be this transparent so early into developement. Ashes DOES have an NDA that will last until around March - and then we'll be able to see for ourselves the full state of the intitial prototype.
maouw wrote: » Just to re-iterate. It's really abnormal for Game Studios to be this transparent so early into developement. Ashes DOES have an NDA that will last until around March - and then we'll be able to see for ourselves the full state of the intitial prototype.
loosid wrote: » maouw wrote: » Just to re-iterate. It's really abnormal for Game Studios to be this transparent so early into developement. Ashes DOES have an NDA that will last until around March - and then we'll be able to see for ourselves the full state of the intitial prototype. Yeah, the game is going on 5 years in dev. Thats not considered early dev. Think about it like this. Sony Developed and released both Everquest and Everquest 2 in about 6-7 years, total. It was harder back then. At this point, technology has already turned over for Intrepid. I was trying to remember why I wrote this game off a FEW years ago and I believe raiding was the reason. If I remember correctly, this game will be PVP. Unless someone else wants to chime in, I'll answer the OP. This is a PVP game with very little PVE content.
maouw wrote: » That's because a lot of development time went into creating AoC Apocalypse - and then they decided that there were core systems that needed to be redone from the ground up. If you look at Apocalypse, you'll see they had full combat systems, etc. whereas now they don't.
loosid wrote: » Yeah, the game is going on 5 years in dev.
BlackBrony wrote: » I kinda have 2 issues. I've seen several post from this poser noani I think, and something they said make me think about the game.
First, about Raids. I can't hardly imagine AoC having content that would interest a hard core player when said content will be open world. Having to deal with PvP during your PvE encounter doesn't make it hardcore in a way that hardcore PvE players are used to, and if only 1 digit percentage population is going to achieve such content, it would seem extremely illogical to also have PvP which is something you can't plan for, no matter how much good you are. Maybe I'm missing something, or something else was said, but if they keep the 80/20 for raids, how are we going to have hardcore PvE content?
Noaani wrote: » The first thing I will say is that if you are reading threads on these forums and people say that Ashes won't have instanced raid content, you can dismiss those particular posters as not knowing what they are talking about. Steven has confirmed that they will instance encounters when it makes sense to do so.
Vhaeyne wrote: » I feel targeted by this statement.
"When we want to confine a encounter to a set number of players due to the narrative or because the loot drops are special in some regard that's when we will likely use that 80:20 rule on instancing vs non-instancing" Like I said, all very indecisive language.
I am not yet sold on the idea that there will be any instanced raids. I think there is a very strong chance Intrepid leans harder into making the open world bosses as amazing as they could possibly be and just scrap the idea of instanced raid content.
Surly you would agree if it came down to a choice between one or the other. Intrepid would scrap instanced raids long before open world raids?
Noaani wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » I feel targeted by this statement. Not at all. I had people in mind when I typed that out, you weren't one of them.
Noaani wrote: » loosid wrote: » Yeah, the game is going on 5 years in dev. Umm, no. Realistically speaking, Ashes started development mid-late 2018.
loosid wrote: » IF its not PVP driven, please tell me otherwise.
loosid wrote: » And yes, I feel targeted by your statement.
daveywavey wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » I feel targeted by this statement. Not at all. I had people in mind when I typed that out, you weren't one of them. Ooooooh, part of me wants to start guessing...
Noaani wrote: » @BlackBrony BlackBrony wrote: » I kinda have 2 issues. I've seen several post from this poser noani I think, and something they said make me think about the game. First of all, you spelled my name wrong. You join a long list of people on these forums that have done that now, including Steven. First, about Raids. I can't hardly imagine AoC having content that would interest a hard core player when said content will be open world. Having to deal with PvP during your PvE encounter doesn't make it hardcore in a way that hardcore PvE players are used to, and if only 1 digit percentage population is going to achieve such content, it would seem extremely illogical to also have PvP which is something you can't plan for, no matter how much good you are. Maybe I'm missing something, or something else was said, but if they keep the 80/20 for raids, how are we going to have hardcore PvE content? I'm only really going to address this portion of your post. The first thing I will say is that if you are reading threads on these forums and people say that Ashes won't have instanced raid content, you can dismiss those particular posters as not knowing what they are talking about. Steven has confirmed that they will instance encounters when it makes sense to do so. Second, it is perfectly possible to have high end raiding in a game where 80% of the raid content is open world. It is not possible to have it if 100% of raid content is open world, but it is with 80%. That said, guilds moving from games like either of the EQ's, WoW or FFXIV would have some adjustments to make. There would only be one night a week of raiding where you know you have targets, but there would be plenty of targets for other nights of the week, if you and your guild put the effort in to it. I have been a top end raiding in most games that I have played, and I absolutely see the possibility for Ashes to have top end raiding while still keeping the PvX aspect of the game. Other posters here don't see it, but them not being able to see it seems to me to be their issue, not ours. If you can't see it, I'm going to go over three potential things I can see Intrepid doing to make Ashes feel worth it to top end raiders, while still being a solid PvX game. Note that the following are my interpritations of how I see things. While there is nothing following that goes against what Intrepid have said they want for Ashes, they have not specifically said anything to assume the following will be in the game. --- All content is tied to nodes - the general setup of nodes dictates exactly what encoutners will spawn, and even what dungeons will be available. There is no reason this wouldn't apply to raid encounters, including instanced raid encounters. My assumption with this is that raid content will mostly be influenced by the specific type of metropolis node that has over all control of the area. This would mean there are essentially 4 major versions of raids. Each version may have totally different mobs and may be located in a different area, but my assumption is that each version will have similar difficulty tiers of encounters, and similar numbers of instanced vs open world encounters. Based on this, it would be awesome if each node type had the instanced encounters a different difficulty. It could well be that raids that are influenced by a military metropolis will have the hardest encounters all be open world, and the one or two instances would be the easiest mobs under that metropolis type. Conversly, a scientific metropolis may influence content in a way where instanced raids are the hardest and most rewarding, and open world encounters are easier. This would mean that raiders would have a vested interest in the node state of the server, which will see them active in sieging nodes that they want to change, and also in defending nodes in order to hold on to the content that those nodes have opened up for them. It also means that rival guilds could siege specific nodes in order to deny content - the ultimate form of contesting content. --- I can see instanced content (especially harder instanced content) rewarding players with a few high end raw material drops to make epic level items, but occasionally also dropping an item that makes a legendary item - but this item needs to be transported by a caravan to a specific node (the nearest metropolis, perhaps). Additionally, just for added fun, when a player accepts this item drop/caravan, there is a serverwide message saying '[player] of [guild] has just looted [item] from [encounter] in [location], and needs to transport it to [node]!" This basically tells the entire server that you have one of the best items in the game, and are transporting it in a vulnerable state, from a known point to another known point. What this does is taking the rewards from an instanced encounter that is completely instanced off, and opens it up to the PvX ideal of Ashes. While some raiders wouldn't be at all keen on this, a good number would see the added fun and tension that it brings to the situation. This also brings up diplomatic options for your guild - form an agreement with another raid guild to assist each other in bringing these rewards back, or even hiring a more PvP focused guild to assist. --- Another form of content I can see Ashes making use of is semi-instancing. Imagine a room in a dungeon, with a boss encounter in it. The room has a single door, no respawn points, and also prevents players from logging in to the game in this room. Now imagine a raid is able to enter this room and close the door behind it. Then this raid is able to force spawn that boss in this room. Upon spawning this boss, there is also an encounter spawn outside the room (this could even literally be the door). If this second encounter is killed, it opens up the door to this room. This means that rival guilds are able to fight and kill that secondary encounter, and if they manage to do it before you and your guild kill the primary encounter, they can attack you mid fight. It means you have a chance at an uninterrupted attempt at that encounter, but you and your raid are up against rival players - you are essentially pitting your PvE ability vs their PvE ability, if you win you get rewards, if they win you get PvP. --- These are the kinds of things Intrepid could do with raiding in Ashes, and I can see the possibility as being really enjoyable for a wide range of players - not just raiders. In order to get to this point though, Intrepid need to realize that contesting content doesn't always need to happen on that specific and exact piece of content - it can happen while players are on the way to that content, or while players are attempting to bring the rewards of the content to safety. The above general possibilities have me excited for what Ashes could bring - if Intrepid have the balls.
Dygz wrote: » It's decisive that dungeons are 80% open world/ 20% instanced. There should be no surprise that the devs are currently more focused on designing and developing the 80% content than they are the 20% content.
