Combat System

Hello dear Intrepid Studios,

I've been following the development for quite a while and I'm really hyped to play your game.

Here is a little thought from me.
The combat system is the key to success, why? Because most of the time you're busy fighting (for my part, at least ^^).
So, the fight has to feel rewarding, crisp and sharp you have to cite, manage your resources etc...
And every class has to have its strengths and weaknesses very important, so that you really have the feeling of uniqueness and usefulness.

For me there is only one game in the MMORPG genre that has made it right to the point and that is World of Warcraft (Classic; TBC; WOTLK)! I've tried many MMOs that also had a very good combat system but never got close to WoW.

That's just my opinion, everyone can have different preferences...

To a happy and exciting new year (without covid?!)^^

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Comments

Wandering Mist

WoW is definitely the gold standard when it comes to smoothness and responsiveness in combat....

......HOWEVER!

One aspect that a lot of mmorpgs neglect is in the enemies you get to fight. Yes, it feels really nice pressing the buttons in WoW, but nearly all the mobs you fight are just walking target dummies that do literally nothing to you. Combat is a 2-way interaction, so if the mobs you are fighting don't do anything, you're only getting half the combat experience.

ariatras

WoW's controls, and smoothness ruined many an MMO for me. The most painful of which was The Old Republic. Sadly, the is the only good thing about WoW's combat system.

George_Black

Tera Online (first years)

daveywavey

Ashes Of Creation won't be World Of Borecraft. And, that's a good thing. Let it be its own game.

Jinthul

@Wandering Mist

I totaly 100% agree with you!

The enemies need interesting skills such as: hooks; dashes and so on and so forth.

So we can master our classes even more against all these evil creatures around Verra.

I looking forward to the game, i really, really wish "Ashes of Creation" nails it! So far it "looks" phenomenal.

We need again new/old wind in the mmo genre...

@daveywavey

Where did i write it has to be WoW?!
I just gave an example. Me to, i don't want a WoW clone!

daveywavey

Jinthul wrote: »

Where did i write it has to be WoW?!
I just gave an example. Me to, i don't want a WoW clone!

Cos you WoB fanboys are all the same!

Every other flipping thread on here is some WoB fanboy wanting to make this game more like WoB, and it's got so boring that I've taken to calling it World Of Borecraft, now. Whenever I see a thread that doesn't reference WoB, I breathe a sigh of relief!

Without the WoB reference, your post is essentially: "Combat is important in an MMO". And, Intrepid's team of experienced MMO staff know this already...

Vhaeyne

Every class having its own strengths and weaknesses is a very tall order. It's not going to be like WOW, specifically TBC and Wrath. Where there are 30+ specs that are all different enough to stand out in play style. With AOC it's 8 variations on 8 playstyles at most. Also be sure to consider that if you include your characters "rotation" a part of their play style. AOC is trying not to have rotations. This is to promote more customization and reactionary game play.

All that being said I hope to see fluid and engaging combat at a minimum.

Jinthul

@Vhaeyne

It's not an easy task, man, i know.
We have to see, to what extent will the skills actually change, depending on which secondary class we have chosen.
I like that idea of no rotations, so you have to think more witch skill you have to use in the right situation.

So true

maouw

I didn't grow up on WoW, so I have a different opinion on WoW's combat.
I think it was good for its time, and a myriad of next generation MMOs clearly drew inspiration from that system. But I do think WoWs combat system is looking aged today - and similar clones comes off as mediocre (Wildstar, Tera, etc.).

After playing games like the God of War series, Monster Hunter series, BDO - there are definitely less skills at your disposal, but combat itself has a viscerality that I don't get from the combat in WoW. (I would compare it to the step up from turn based combat, but that's an unfair comparison - maybe a quarter of that gap?)

I should note that I'm younger than most on the forums, so my experience is greener - so take from that what you will.

krakazilla

maouw wrote: »

I didn't grow up on WoW, so I have a different opinion on WoW's combat.
I think it was good for its time, and a myriad of next generation MMOs clearly drew inspiration from that system. But I do think WoWs combat system is looking aged today - and similar clones comes off as mediocre (Wildstar, Tera, etc.).

After playing games like the God of War series, Monster Hunter series, BDO - there are definitely less skills at your disposal, but combat itself has a viscerality that I don't get from the combat in WoW. (I would compare it to the step up from turn based combat, but that's an unfair comparison - maybe a quarter of that gap?)

I should note that I'm younger than most on the forums, so my experience is greener - so take from that what you will.

I agree with you. I personally enjoy action combat systems the most. BDO does that quite good. But i havent played that in a long time. As of right know i play mostly gw2 with the more action combat focused camera movement without the auto locking.

Also i feel like action combat requires more skill and the active participation makes ist more immersive and fun.

Mushin

Make it 100% skill based and go in the way of monster hunter or dauntless. I really don't see the mmorpg genre going anywhere combat wise unless it moves into a fast paced action oriented gameplay, where the enemies actually do something and not just stand there. I know they are working on combat. It's just my opinion but I hope they really try to innovation and make something new instead of just going old school. Right now it just looks like an Elder Scrolls Online.

Wandering Mist

mushin wrote: »

Make it 100% skill based and go in the way of monster hunter or dauntless. I really don't see the mmorpg genre going anywhere combat wise unless it moves into a fast paced action oriented gameplay, where the enemies actually do something and not just stand there. I know they are working on combat. It's just my opinion but I hope they really try to innovation and make something new instead of just going old school. Right now it just looks like an Elder Scrolls Online.

One thing to keep in mind is that combat like you see in Monster Hunter World only really works with small groups of players, whereas an mmorpg needs to be able to field dozens or even hundreds of players at the same time. Imagine if you had 40 characters on screen all doing Monster Hunter style combat moves, it would be a complete mess and borderline unplayable.

Hakaiju

Wandering Mist wrote: »

One thing to keep in mind is that combat like you see in Monster Hunter World only really works with small groups of players, whereas an mmorpg needs to be able to field dozens or even hundreds of players at the same time. Imagine if you had 40 characters on screen all doing Monster Hunter style combat moves, it would be a complete mess and borderline unplayable.

Yeah, BDO is also only fun if you farm mobs as a singleplayer / a small group. The devs actually wanted to add some raids to BDO, but they couldnt because it just wouldnt fit with the combat system (as one can see with the messed up world bosses). My preference would be GW2 with some modern improvements.

Selo

To much action combat and it becomes extremly spammy and just a big mess.
In the end, the most succesful mmorpgs have been tab target, or tab target with some action skills.
MH, Dauntless etc is a completly different genre and shouldnt be an inspire combat for an mmorpg.
Those games also are 2 of the most spammy games there are.

Mushin

Honestly I wouldn't mind complete chaos in raids, it just means that it stimulates a real battle. Tanks take control of mob movement and defense while melee dps go in and out of attack range. Range dps and healers in the back. What we have right now in every mmo is a bunch of individuals running around avoiding the red dots on the ground with one or two people tanking.

Dadrick

mushin wrote: »

Honestly I wouldn't mind complete chaos in raids, it just means that it stimulates a real battle.

I'm just the opposite. I don't play FPS or twitch games. My coordination isn't the best so I get lost in the confusion. I like that IS is trying to come up with a hybrid combat system that can be tuned to your play style. Tab target and a few AOE is how I'll roll.

maouw

@Wandering Mist
With overabundant fx - they've said fx gets turned down when there are too many players on screen, right? Doesn't FFXIV have a lot going on in combat? How do they handle it?

@Selo I don't think it's fair to call MH "spammy" (like here) even when people are cheesing like this.

We've only seen "40-man" action combat bosses ignorant of zerging (BDO, L2), right? and MH bosses are intentionally designed to be solo-able by high-end players - which is why you get cheese.
If LoL's ARAM Hexakill (6v6) combat can be a coherent battle in a narrow space, surely it's achievable at a larger scale beyond ARAM's single lane of combat?

Vhaeyne

maouw wrote: »

Doesn't FFXIV have a lot going on in combat? How do they handle it?

Short answer: They really don't handle it.

Long answer:
The raids are 8 man content. This is where they actually cut loose, and have a lot of epic fast paced stuff going on.
They have 24man raids too, but they are easier than raid finder in WOW. People only do these once a week for the free loot it gives causals.
Lastly they have large scale PvP which can be a laggy mess with 24v24v24. A total of 72 players on the battlefield. It's not fun, and no one likes it, but they keep making new maps.

I think most PCs handle it with raw brute force compute power. Console players are generally easy to spot because they take too long to load into the game, their movement is awful, and they claim that lag kills them more.

There might be something going on with the game being optimized originally to run on the PS3, but I don't think it ever ran well on the PS3.

Mushin

https://youtu.be/nuIDYE6hxzY

Project BBQ new trailer, combat and animations look amazing

Vhaeyne

mushin wrote: »

Project BBQ new trailer, combat and animations look amazing

Gross, another anime game with lack luster combat and over the top animations.
Looks like a shitty 3D guilty gear. Getting by on character designs, and sparkles over substance.
I hope Intrepid stays away from this crap. It's already bad enough the mages have Harlem Globetrotter ass moves.

Can we please have one MMO where the players feel more like denizens of a fantasy world, and less like shonen anime protagonists.

Sorry mate, but I can't stand this stuff.

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