Certificates

Hello awesome people. I was thinking about system of the caravans and certificates dropped from monsters. I can't help but wonder one simple thing. Why bother with caravans transporting your good when you can simply just run or ride on your mounto into an another node. When people will see caravan they gonna think - damn free loot, but when you ride on a mount you look like a regular player getting into your random destination. Can someone explain it to me please ? I was looking at wiki and couldn't find anything. Cheers have a good day.

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Talents

Because a Caravan can carry 100x what you can hold in your inventory.

Warth

?

Caravans = materials like tooths, pelts...

Certificates = replacement for gold directly dropped from monsters. You get the gold from a hunter by handing in the kill certs.

maouw

Talents wrote: »

Because a Caravan can carry 100x what you can hold in your inventory.

This is the main reason.
Travel back and forth 100 times, or do 1 caravan?

maouw

maouw wrote: »

Talents wrote: »

Because a Caravan can carry 100x what you can hold in your inventory.

This is the main reason.
Travel back and forth 100 times, or do 1 caravan?

I just realized this is what bots will probably be doing.

Noaani

maouw wrote: »

maouw wrote: »

Talents wrote: »

Because a Caravan can carry 100x what you can hold in your inventory.

This is the main reason.
Travel back and forth 100 times, or do 1 caravan?

I just realized this is what bots will probably be doing.

Sounds like an easy source of income then - kill the bots, take their stuff, farm some mobs to work off the corruption before the next one comes along.

Caravans aren't any less safe than transporting goods by foot.

daveywavey

Talents wrote: »

Because a Caravan can carry 100x what you can hold in your inventory.

Warth wrote: »

Caravans = materials like tooths, pelts...

Certificates = replacement for gold directly dropped from monsters. You get the gold from a hunter by handing in the kill certs.

These two.

As Warth said, the Hunting Certificates are a replacement drop for money, cos it's a little unbelievable that a Wolf would drop 15 gold coins and an Iron Breastplate. Instead, they might drop a Wolf Pelt or a Wolf Claw, and you take them to a vendor in the nearby city to get the money.

Caravans will be taking goods/resources/etc. So, if you go out and mine some iron ore, you might find that you can only sell it for 3 gold coins each at your local city. However, at the city two nodes over, you can sell it for 16 gold coins each. The caravan is for this sort of circumstance. And yeah, you could take some yourself, but as Talents said, the caravan can hold a whooooole lot more than you can, and you and whoever else fills your caravan with you will be defending it with everything you've got.

Tausomaki

Ok so... do I understand that right ?
You kill mob you get pelts. Pelts can deliver to closest NPC and get certtificates right ?
But really the inventory will be so small that you need entire caravan to transport all this stuff ? Do you really gonna get so many cert and mats that you wont have space in inv ? Plus maybe you wanna sell stone / iron etc on AH of economic node and not using caravan - cuz tbh I'm not sure how caravan works.
Will it sell stone / iron immediately upon arrival ? And if not than how can you carry for example 1000 iron when you needed caravan to deliver them instead of using mount and travel normally. Thx for all info

Noaani

Tausomaki wrote: »

Ok so... do I understand that right ?
You kill mob you get pelts. Pelts can deliver to closest NPC and get certtificates right ?
But really the inventory will be so small that you need entire caravan to transport all this stuff ? Do you really gonna get so many cert and mats that you wont have space in inv ? Plus maybe you wanna sell stone / iron etc on AH of economic node and not using caravan - cuz tbh I'm not sure how caravan works.
Will it sell stone / iron immediately upon arrival ? And if not than how can you carry for example 1000 iron when you needed caravan to deliver them instead of using mount and travel normally. Thx for all info

Not quite.

You kill a mob and get a certificate. That certificate can be taken back to a node and exchanged for gold. This is in place of mobs dropping gold, and other than the fact that you can drop these certificates when killed in PvP, that is the end of the story for 'these' certificates.

Also, if that mob you killed has a pelt, if you are of an appropriate gathering class, you may be able to skin it.

These pelts, as well as all other raw materials (herbs, wood, stone, metal ore etc) take up a lot of inventory space, but need to be transported in order to be used.

To transport them efficiently, you need to gather up a lot of these materials, then put them in a caravan and move them to where they are able to be used.

This is why the caravan system is important - it is the only way to move large amounts of material from where they are gathered to where they can be used.

Now, the part I think you are getting confused with is what happens when someone successfully attacks your caravan. Rather than taking it over and carrying on, the attacker gets a certificate that can be exchanged at the origin node of your caravan for the resources that were contained in it.

Also, if you decide to sell the materials where they are rather than transporting them, the buyer will have to take possession of them in the node the materials are in, and will need to then transport them to where they want them anyway. So it may well be that you are simply using your caravan to take raw materials from where they are gathered (and thus where they are cheap) to where they are used and in high demand (and thus expensive).

palabana

Tausomaki wrote: »

Ok so... do I understand that right ?
You kill mob you get pelts. Pelts can deliver to closest NPC and get certtificates right ?
But really the inventory will be so small that you need entire caravan to transport all this stuff ? Do you really gonna get so many cert and mats that you wont have space in inv ? Plus maybe you wanna sell stone / iron etc on AH of economic node and not using caravan - cuz tbh I'm not sure how caravan works.
Will it sell stone / iron immediately upon arrival ? And if not than how can you carry for example 1000 iron when you needed caravan to deliver them instead of using mount and travel normally. Thx for all info

Think of "certificates" as trash loots. They're pelts, antlers, etc. that you will need to redeem as gold (and maybe something else) at any vendors in any nodes.

The distance between the location where you obtained the certificates and the node that you're selling it at matters as well. The longer the distance, the higher the price.

You might not need a Caravan at all. You can also use a Mule. Mules can carry 10x the amount of your backpack and they're also a mount.

Reflet

I found this so amazing! And the more I read about it the more I hate this system. Especially the caravans certificates after it was destroyed!
The owner of the caravan gathered tonnes of raw materials or crafted items to send somewhere, which NEED a caravan in order to move everything from point A to point B, but brigands just need to a pocket to keep some of that TONNES of raw materials to run away and pass the city gates in front of guards or anyone else looking for the stolen goods after they heared about the robbery.
About the mobs certificate drop... a pelt needs to be skinned and takes a lot more room in your bag than a certificate (unless it is a very biggggg certificate)!

tautau

One of the good things about this system is inventory management. Let's say you ambush a caravan and pick up 12 wolf pelts, 6 lion pelts, 12 lion teeth, 3 bluebird feathers, 9 eagle feathers, 12 hardwood, 12 cedar boards, 18 iron ore pellets, and a squid. If you don't have enough inventory slots in you backpack, you have to leave stuff behind, right? Or maybe you are at your weight limit, if one exists. By having Certificates represent all these different items, you just use one inventory slot and no weight. It simplifies the game significantly and keeps you from having to waste time at different NPC shops dragging and dropping so many different items.

Nerror

This is one of those systems that we need to test in A2 before we can really say what it's like I think. What it's like to actually play and do it, as opposed to just reading about it.

Noaani

Reflet wrote: »

I found this so amazing! And the more I read about it the more I hate this system. Especially the caravans certificates after it was destroyed!
The owner of the caravan gathered tonnes of raw materials or crafted items to send somewhere, which NEED a caravan in order to move everything from point A to point B, but brigands just need to a pocket to keep some of that TONNES of raw materials to run away and pass the city gates in front of guards or anyone else looking for the stolen goods after they heared about the robbery.

Keep in mind, that certificate you get for destroying a caravan is for an amount of those raw resources at the location the caravan departed from. Also, the certificates that drop the you destroy a caravan are only for a portion of the good within, not all of the goods (it isnt entirely clear to me what happens to the remaining goods).

Since that caravan was moving the resources away from that node, there is a safe assumption to make that those resources aren't needed at that node and thus are of low value. In order to extract value from those resources, the player needs to take that certificate back to that node, convert it to the raw materials, and then transport those raw materials via their own caravan to a node where they are in demand.

It isnt as if many people are going to be transporting large amounts of material AWAY from a node where they have value. You generally wouldnt put those resources up against that much of a risk if you could turn a decent profit where they are.

Based on this, the person that defeated the caravan still has a need to transport those goods, it just doesnt need to happen right then.

Depraved

Tausomaki wrote: »

Hello awesome people. I was thinking about system of the caravans and certificates dropped from monsters. I can't help but wonder one simple thing. Why bother with caravans transporting your good when you can simply just run or ride on your mounto into an another node. When people will see caravan they gonna think - damn free loot, but when you ride on a mount you look like a regular player getting into your random destination. Can someone explain it to me please ? I was looking at wiki and couldn't find anything. Cheers have a good day.

as far as I know, transporting goods using the caravan system will get you more money than going on foot

Reflet

@Noaani

Noaani wrote: »

Keep in mind, that certificate you get for destroying a caravan is for an amount of those raw resources at the location the caravan departed from. Also, the certificates that drop the you destroy a caravan are only for a portion of the good within, not all of the goods...

My point is that a portion of 5 Tonnes of goods, if is half of it, will still be 2500 kg (5511 lb). So for you it is quite acceptable to imagine to store in your backpack 2500 kg and acte as normal, run in the wild like a fresh cut flower?
At the start, having to use a caravan, regardless the economic or usefulness point of view, comes from the NEED to move all that weight/volume (a small weight but big volume is still not easy to move). Even juste a drop of it, like a small 100 kg (220 lb), can be lifted by someone strong but that peson isn't going to run and act as normal.
From my perspective, it would be more fair and realistic to have the brigands use there own cart or repair the attacked caravan (which can't be destroyed so easily (unless you attack it with catapult, trebuchet, fireball...)) and then leave the area by driving the caravan themselves (running the risk of being attacked by other brigands).

@tautau I think that the general idea of "inventory management" in that matter drives us back to the same point of being able to loot gold coins and a breastplate on a dead wolf.

Noaani

Reflet wrote: »

My point is that a portion of 5 Tonnes of goods, if is half of it, will still be 2500 kg (5511 lb). So for you it is quite acceptable to imagine to store in your backpack 2500 kg and acte as normal, run in the wild like a fresh cut flower?

I mean, yes it is.

Ashes is a game, not a world simulator. Steven has explained very specifically why destroying a caravan results in certificates rather than resulting in raw materials on the spot - and it is purely due to gameplay reasons.

There is literally never a situation with game mechanics where picking an option that is more realistic is acceptable over picking the option that makes the game play better.

Reflet

Then why matter to build a caravan in the first place? Just to have it destroyed or to move things from point A to point B since it's too big to move it on your own?
The actual point of view works for robbers not for crafters. The crafter/gatherer need to be realistic and run the risk of loosing hours of gameplay, but the robber doesn't need to be realistic because... it bother his gameplay?!?!?
Even in Albion online, when someone kills an other player in red or black zone, when looting from the gear and backpack of the victim, the killer has to choose what to take if too many things can be looted (according to his inventory space slots or weight already carried).

Being more of a crafter/gatherer sort of player, in the current setup, I feel more cheated than excited.

Noaani

Reflet wrote: »

Then why matter to build a caravan in the first place?

Gameplay.

If you continue the line of enquiry you have here, the eventual end question is "so why play an MMO in the first place?".

Reflet

Same question to you, because you keep on seeing your point of view of robber (maybe PK as well).
The caravan system should only be fun for robbers? What crafters/gatherer are for you? Mobs that can be looted? If the brigands see from a distance what i gathered for days and have it moved to sell it far away, then it's normal that the brigand who robb the caravan (and I have no problem with that) has to carry my burden and become a prey on his turn. When you make some choices you have to face the consequencies ; the crafter does as soon as he builds a caravan, the robber should have to do it as soon as he decide to attack a caravan (run away with your loot the same way the crafter HAD to move it). Then the gameplay will be fair.
If there is a system it has to be the same for everyone.

Noaani

Reflet wrote: »

unless you think that women shouldn't be able to vote/have a bank account or coloured ppl couldn't go in the same schools has you...

What the actual fuck is this?

Remove this shit from your above post immediately.

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