[Feature] Spectator-mode for Instanced content

Dropped the following in #questions on Discord, but was recommended to post this in forums. If it is wrong place, please move the topic:

Right now raiding in ESO, I wish Intrepid would add a Spectator-mode for instanced content: while 10-20 people are raiding, others could join and just watch. This also would be great experience for such spectators just to roam the instance in an invisible-fashion, watching around, grabbing some screenshots or even getting some free-camera videos from there. Only for instances this shouldn't be resource intensive IMO.

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VmanGman

Instanced dungeons will be a very small portion of the content in AoC since most dungeons will be open world and we clearly cannot allow such a feature in the open world due obvious reasons such as risk free espionage/scouting. To me this doesn't seem like a very good way to spend development time.

Gelmir

vmangman wrote: »

Instanced dungeons will be a very small portion of the content in AoC since most dungeons will be open world and we clearly cannot allow such a feature in the open world due obvious reasons such as risk free espionage/scouting. To me this doesn't seem like a very good way to spend development time.

Indeed, this can't exist in open-world. That's why I mentioned instances only. But this would be a great feature to have, especially for "university/academy" type groups/organizations, where they train raiders and raid leaders alike. We have something similar in ESO community. Considering AOC's goals and ambitions, and considering the fact that sooner or later there will be instanced raid content eventually (doesn't matter what many say, but world bosses and raid bosses aren't the same thing - one embodies the chaos and disorder, whereas the other represents choreography of 10-20 raiders who perform pristine execution of the kill; so let's not start that fruitless discussion of who is right or wrong, or what Intrepid said they will have or not), this feature would prove very helpful. Just wanted to reach Steven's ears for him to consider this when right time comes.

Warth

Gelmir wrote: »

vmangman wrote: »

Instanced dungeons will be a very small portion of the content in AoC since most dungeons will be open world and we clearly cannot allow such a feature in the open world due obvious reasons such as risk free espionage/scouting. To me this doesn't seem like a very good way to spend development time.

Indeed, this can't exist in open-world. That's why I mentioned instances only. But this would be a great feature to have, especially for "university/academy" type groups/organizations, where they train raiders and raid leaders alike. We have something similar in ESO community. Considering AOC's goals and ambitions, and considering the fact that sooner or later there will be instanced raid content eventually (doesn't matter what many say, but world bosses and raid bosses aren't the same thing - one embodies the chaos and disorder, whereas the other represents choreography of 10-20 raiders who perform pristine execution of the kill; so let's not start that fruitless discussion of who is right or wrong, or what Intrepid said they will have or not), this feature would prove very helpful. Just wanted to reach Steven's ears for him to consider this when right time comes.

this game isn't aimed towards competitive raiding the way wow or ffxiv is.

Furthermore, you suggestion adds close to no value over alternatives that already exist through discord and twitch streaming.

On a very long list of "nice to have " festures, this would rank at the very bottom for me personally.

Even the most dungeon/raiding intensive games didn't bother implementing somethibg like that. If they don't think it makes sense for games focussed on that very aspect, then it certainly won't make sense for an unreleased game that focuses literailly on the other side of the spectrum

Noaani

Warth wrote: »

On a very long list of "nice to have " festures, this would rank at the very bottom for me personally.

As someone with a top end raiding background, I agree here.

Also, specific to Ashes, this is unlikely to be of value in a training sense. Top end content success in Ashes will rely more on your ability to defend against PvP attack than it will on your ability to defeat the content itself. For the most part, the content will be mind numbingly boring.

Gelmir

Warth wrote: »

this game isn't aimed towards competitive raiding the way wow or ffxiv is.

Furthermore, you suggestion adds close to no value over alternatives that already exist through discord and twitch streaming.

On a very long list of "nice to have " festures, this would rank at the very bottom for me personally.

Even the most dungeon/raiding intensive games didn't bother implementing somethibg like that. If they don't think it makes sense for games focussed on that very aspect, then it certainly won't make sense for an unreleased game that focuses literailly on the other side of the spectrum

What are you talking about? What does this have to do with Twitch or even streaming?! I doubt you understood the feature I proposed. It has nothing to do with streaming, videos etc.

Gelmir

Noaani wrote: »

For the most part, the content will be mind numbingly boring.

Matter of opinion which can't be pushed as Truth. I absolutely disagree. In fact, although PvP will be strong aspect of the game, nowhere it was declared that PvE will be 2nd class citizen in this game. If I am wrong, please provide references.

Noaani

Gelmir wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

For the most part, the content will be mind numbingly boring.

Matter of opinion which can't be pushed as Truth. I absolutely disagree. In fact, although PvP will be strong aspect of the game, nowhere it was declared that PvE will be 2nd class citizen in this game. If I am wrong, please provide references.

The simple fact that others have bought up the inevitable outcome of all PvE content in games where PvP is possible. Literally all such games have mind numbingly boring PvE, because it is designed to be killed while you are also fighting a PvP battle at the same time.

This necessitates the PvE be far easier than it would be if PvP was not possible.

Any time this is bought up, Steven and Jeff just look at each other knowing they have no answer to the question, and then fumble around trying to say "we're still working on coming up with a way to make that happen".

A small amount of PvE content in Ashes will be instanced. There is a chance that this content could be challenging (Intrepid have some developers on staff that have made some of my favorite raid encounters). However, any content in a location in which you can be attacked in PvP (which is going to be 80%+) will be mind numbingly boring.

This is not a fact I am happy with. It is not how I want this game to be. It is, however, how this game will be unless Intrepid kill off their self imposed cap on instanced content.

Jamation

Gelmir wrote: »

What are you talking about? What does this have to do with Twitch or even streaming?! I doubt you understood the feature I proposed. It has nothing to do with streaming, videos etc.

Although I understand the spectator mode would be different from streaming, the end results could be fairly similar - just with more work on the creators side. I was big into FFXIV raiding and there are a few content creators who make their living doing academy style videos for raids and dungeons (ex: MTQcapture). She even goes further by holding weekly (or monthly?) academy sessions where she takes user into these dungeons and raids and explains to the stream what to do, why X happened, and gives good examples on how to fix mistakes.

I think the issue with the pure spectator mode was addressed well by vmangman in saying that it's basically risk free scouting. As it's instanced, the mobs and such probably wouldn't change, so the argument that once a person clears it they wouldn't need to scout is technically true. But in that instance the person would've already cleared the content and could've gotten their screenshots and videos on their run.

While it might be nice to get pretty and clean screenshots and videos, I don't think that is worth the negatives that would come with having such a system.

VmanGman

Gelmir wrote: »

Considering AOC's goals and ambitions, and considering the fact that sooner or later there will be instanced raid content eventually (doesn't matter what many say, but world bosses and raid bosses aren't the same thing - one embodies the chaos and disorder, whereas the other represents choreography of 10-20 raiders who perform pristine execution of the kill; so let's not start that fruitless discussion of who is right or wrong, or what Intrepid said they will have or not), this feature would prove very helpful. Just wanted to reach Steven's ears for him to consider this when right time comes.

Sorry, but you seem to be following the wrong game. MMORPGs don't need to have instanced raiding content to be good. The design goals of AoC simply do not line up with too much instanced content. If that's what you're after you'll either have to change your expectations or move on.

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