What would make a perfect endgame?

I just wanna see what the ashes community has to say. In my perfect endgame it would be something with fighting over territory or rising up against the biggest guild something along like in game politics that would bring together the community as a whole for like a big event. Something memorable

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Vhaeyne

For Ashes specifically...

I would say have the world bosses drop maps/keys to instanced raid bosses. Keep 95% of the game on the world map with the only instances being single room boss fights accessed by the maps/keys from open world raid bosses. Then have nothing in the game drop actual loot. Only crafting mats. This in combination with a well thought out tiered progression system would give people months of stuff to compete over.

Because people would require us fight in open world PvP over the rights to attempt a instanced raid boss with harder mechanics, then use that loot to make items. My system would tie together a need for Crafters, PvPers, and PvPers to work together.

The actual holy trinity we should be talking about.

Patsold

Get rich, farm equipment, manage your own house and use it useful in endgame. Rp aspects. like running a tavern and selling things ingame for profit. Pvp / sieges and open world conflicts

if all of this is done well, i will probably never stop playing the game

Wandering Mist

If the node system works as intended that will be the perfect endgame for me.

George_Black

Yearly expansions.
5 lv cap increase
New/rebalanced abilities
New gear tier
New epic world boss
New zones
New raid bosses
1-2 new instanced content
New siegable castle

One grand, new system every 2 years

Vhaeyne

George Black wrote: »

Yearly expansions.
5 lv cap increase
New/rebalanced abilities
New gear tier
New epic world boss
New zones
New siegable castle

One grand, new system every 2 years

Personally I hate level cap increases. Five level increments would be a conservative number that would keep things from getting out of had too much too quick. Maybe do the expansions every two years. Otherwise your suggestions seem quite good.

Noaani

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Because people would require us fight in open world PvP over the rights to attempt a instanced raid boss with harder mechanics, then use that loot to make items.

I would personally rather it be the other way arouned.

When it comes to open world encounters, the assumption should always be made that someone will monopolize them - because someone like me always will.

If those open world encounters are then keys to instanced content, it means that the people that monopolize the open world content are the only ones that get access to the instanced content - which in turn means they are two full gear levels higher than anyone else, allowing them to continue to monopolize that open world content.

On the other hand, if you have the instanced content as the lower level tier end game content, everyone has access to it, everyone is able to actually "do" something as a guild, and everyone is able to work towards that improvement in gear for themselves and their guild. If you then throw a layer of open world encounters on top of that, it means that the people that will inevitably monopolize them will at most be one gear level ahead.

This can be done while still having the instanced content as the hardest actual PvE content in the game (which is an absolute necessity), but having the best gear drop from the open world encounters. This is easily justified due to the open world content being limited in terms of spawn numbers (one spawn per encounter every 10 days or so), and also the fact that there is an expectation of PvP during these encounters.

To me, that is the best endgame Ashes can hope to have. This general scheme, combined with adding new instanced and open world raids at least every 6 months (as well as other content) is the only way I can see Ashes being a game worth playing for more than maybe two years.

Vhaeyne

@Noaani

Perfectly valid concern. The rich will get richer under most systems. I am hoping they figure something out during these long alphas and betas.

Blandmarrow

Noaani wrote: »

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Because people would require us fight in open world PvP over the rights to attempt a instanced raid boss with harder mechanics, then use that loot to make items.

If those open world encounters are then keys to instanced content, it means that the people that monopolize the open world content are the only ones that get access to the instanced content - which in turn means they are two full gear levels higher than anyone else, allowing them to continue to monopolize that open world content.

With the size of Verra, I don't think that'd be an issue.

Besides you're not forced to raid anymore to get the best loot which means even if you were denied access to the raid, you could still access the gear which would put you on a even footing with whoever monopolizes the open world content.

Gear should not be the determining factor anyway in PvP, it should be skill.

Vhaeyne

Blandmarrow wrote: »

With the size of Verra, I don't think that'd be an issue.

It will because only so many nodes will be advanced to the point that they have end-game raids. People will travel across the land, searching far and wide... for the good end game raid bosses.

Blandmarrow wrote: »

Besides you're not forced to raid anymore to get the best loot which means even if you were denied access to the raid, you could still access the gear which would put you on a even footing with whoever monopolizes the open world content.

Raiding will still be more worth your time than, grinding lesser mobs for hours on end. People are still going to want to do it. Your point might lower the pool of people willing to compete for raid bosses a little, but if a raid boss is up on the other side of the world. The plot to that movie "Its a mad mad mad mad mad world" will play out every time.

Blandmarrow wrote: »

Gear should not be the determining factor anyway in PvP, it should be skill.

There might be a fair amount of wiggle room, but if gear is not a determining factor in a fight. Then gear will have no value. People will not have any reason to fight each other for resources, raid, or craft. The game will die.

Their estimate for gears power level will very based on class, enchantment level of the gear, character build, tier of gear. I don't think it will ever be as simple as saying 40% of a characters power comes from gear. It is a nice idea, but a bit harder in practice.

daveywavey

Blandmarrow wrote: »

Gear should not be the determining factor anyway in PvP, it should be skill.

I, in the best gear, will always lose to someone that knows what they're doing. Gear won't be a replacement for skill. As you say, skill will be a determining factor.

Blandmarrow

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Raiding will still be more worth your time than, grinding lesser mobs for hours on end. People are still going to want to do it. Your point might lower the pool of people willing to compete for raid bosses a little, but if a raid boss is up on the other side of the world. The plot to that movie "Its a mad mad mad mad mad world" will play out every time.

Blandmarrow wrote: »

Gear should not be the determining factor anyway in PvP, it should be skill.

There might be a fair amount of wiggle room, but if gear is not a determining factor in a fight. Then gear will have no value. People will not have any reason to fight each other for resources, raid, or craft. The game will die.

Their estimate for gears power level will very based on class, enchantment level of the gear, character build, tier of gear. I don't think it will ever be as simple as saying 40% of a characters power comes from gear. It is a nice idea, but a bit harder in practice.

While raiding may be worth your time more, that doesn't mean everyone will be able to compete or complete the content.

If gear is the determining factor in a fight then the combat is most likely not satisfying, then it's just about who put more effort/time into the game. Of course you should have a advantage if you have better gear, but it should never be the determining factor alone.

Not sure why gear would lose its value if it wasn't the determining factor in a fight. The gear should be about giving you as much of a advantage in a fight as possible, not give you a certain victory.

Javionn

[/quote]

There might be a fair amount of wiggle room, but if gear is not a determining factor in a fight. Then gear will have no value. People will not have any reason to fight each other for resources, raid, or craft. The game will die.

Their estimate for gears power level will very based on class, enchantment level of the gear, character build, tier of gear. I don't think it will ever be as simple as saying 40% of a characters power comes from gear. It is a nice idea, but a bit harder in practice.
[/quote]

While raiding may be worth your time more, that doesn't mean everyone will be able to compete or complete the content.

If gear is the determining factor in a fight then the combat is most likely not satisfying, then it's just about who put more effort/time into the game. Of course you should have a advantage if you have better gear, but it should never be the determining factor alone.

Not sure why gear would lose its value if it wasn't the determining factor in a fight. The gear should be about giving you as much of a advantage in a fight as possible, not give you a certain victory.

[/quote]

I agree with this and it's the one thing I think NW does well. When playing their Test preview, you could be 20 levels lower than someone and still able to kill them. I think gear should be a necessity but skill should be the main factor. I think that would be a good endgame goal; To understand each and every class and find their weaknesses, and strengths and learn to counter them.

Javionn

Noaani

Blandmarrow wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Because people would require us fight in open world PvP over the rights to attempt a instanced raid boss with harder mechanics, then use that loot to make items.

If those open world encounters are then keys to instanced content, it means that the people that monopolize the open world content are the only ones that get access to the instanced content - which in turn means they are two full gear levels higher than anyone else, allowing them to continue to monopolize that open world content.

With the size of Verra, I don't think that'd be an issue.

Besides you're not forced to raid anymore to get the best loot which means even if you were denied access to the raid, you could still access the gear which would put you on a even footing with whoever monopolizes the open world content.

Gear should not be the determining factor anyway in PvP, it should be skill.

Coming from someone that has done exactly this for many, many years, I can say without a doubt that it will indeed be an issue.

There will only be a handful of top end encounters able to spawn on any given server based on node state. People will know where and when these mobs will spawn, and will be there at the appropriate time to take them on.

As to the notion of skill being key in PvP - sure, may be it will be, but maybe it won't.

The thing is, the best players in the game naturally gravitate to the guild that is doing the best - so that guild that is monopolizing the open world content will not only be two tiers of gear better than the others, but will be made up of some of the better players on the server as well.

This is just how things naturally tend to go.

As to your point on not needing to raid to get the best loot, that isn't totally true.

The best loot in the game will be a combination of raid dropped components, that are then crafted in to top end gear by crafters. If me and my guild has the top end content locked down, I'm not sure how you expect to get hold of those materials to make that top end gear.

If you think we will be selling them to you, you will be in for a rude awakening.

Vhaeyne

Blandmarrow wrote: »

Not sure why gear would lose its value if it wasn't the determining factor in a fight. The gear should be about giving you as much of a advantage in a fight as possible, not give you a certain victory.

Not saying it should be the only determination. Just saying it is going to be a major factor very often. If not than there is no reason to work for gear. Ideally everyone is try to keep their gear on the cutting edge so that the difference between two players is mostly character build and skill. As time goes on people will start to hit high enchantment levels and this will increase the effectiveness of gear. There is never going to be a static state where gear is not that important. Other wise we are just play street fighter with extra glitter.

XerayReaper

For me, if the game allows it, I've always been one to spend extremely long hours in RPGs trying to min-max or fine tune my characters. Seeing that AoC is going to be a horizontal and vertical progression game; I just wanna be able to make my character the best it can be in their respective role. I wanna be that Tank people actively search for or something lol; having a reputation. So allow me to grind my ass off till my Tank is an immovable object.

Just as long as I can do that, I'm golden, because most MMOs I've played hardly give me that option to truly fine tune my character and improve upon my playstyle. Other than that, I'm hoping the Node system will keep people invested enough to continue wanting to PvEvP in the world in order to unlock other Nodes that haven't been activated yet, which'll unlock new content for certain areas.

Blandmarrow

Noaani wrote: »

If you think we will be selling them to you, you will be in for a rude awakening.

Everything has a price, connections helps as well.

Personally I still think it wont be on such a big scale as you believe it will be.

McMackMuck

I wonder whether the economy will gravitate towards the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer?
I guess it will depend on the players on that server. If players choose to hit the nodes where the wealth is stored or join the side that protects the wealthy to be part of that power structure.

The node system is the end game that the most players will fall back on. Destroying some nodes and developing others to get access to PvE content will keep players busy for a while. Server politics will take a while to stabilize, if they ever do: "why does my metropolis need to be destroyed again? why not yours? Maybe we should destroy yours first to see what content we can unlock in your area?".

Some will just want to pursue their artisan career or naval career or own a tavern or explore every part of the world and have a complete map.

Noaani

Blandmarrow wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

If you think we will be selling them to you, you will be in for a rude awakening.

Everything has a price, connections helps as well.

Personally I still think it wont be on such a big scale as you believe it will be.

If you have a servers top end content on lockdown, you don't sell the rewards from it. The only (and I do mean ONLY) way those items will be up for sale on most servers while they are still considered top end is if the game has a cross server marketplace.

If a market is single server, and if you are the only people getting a specific top end item, you know that not selling it means you will always have an advantage over everyone else. As soon as they get that item, you lose that advantage.

If there is a cross server market, then you may as well be the guild that gets the gold from selling the items in question, as you have no way of preventing them from getting in to the hand of people from other guilds.

I have yet to see a game with single server markets and top end open world content where people willingly let that top end loot leave their guild.

As to scale, 90% of servers will have 90% of the top end raid encounters killed by one guild. Since we are talking just that one guild, you are right that the scale isn't that big.

Hellfar

My perfect end game would be a horizontal progression system. Lots of challenging PvE encounters, but no level cap increase with new expansions. Just give us more challenging content to enjoy with our friends. I want the skill cap to be high but the gear cap to be low. I don't want to see a system where the next tier of gear outperforms the lower tier by a huge percentage.

Vertical progression is a thing of the past IMHO. We've learned from WoW's multiple stat 'squishes' and 'catch up mechanics' that it is just not a healthy framework in the long term.

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