Line of Sight / Elevation

Not sure if this has been discussed before.

In past games, I`ve enjoyed having obtained advantage in pvp by elevation providing either longer and/or more powerful shots, back shots as well as using terrain to avoid incoming fire.

What I didn`t like so much was taking cover and having curve ball fire still him me.

I saw some of the most recent reveal of Camelot Unchained, and the terrain in one of the shots showed so much variety of small, medium, large cover for pvp, so much more than I have seen in Ashes so to date.

Where does Ashes currently sit with line of sight, elevation, cover etc right now_?

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maouw

Good question!

I believe the environment team is still laying the foundations of the world - Steven was showing us a few untextured boulders last stream, so we don't have much info on this yet.

Where this gets tricky is that combat is still up in the air, and I'm not sure if there's been much talk about how combat/skills interact with the environment (collision detection with trees? etc.)

I would love to see this, since it connects combat to environment, but I also feel like it takes combat in a totally different direction to what has been envisioned for combat already.

akabear

I am really hoping for elevation proving more range and/or power; be that for a defender on a parapet with more range or an attacker on a hill.

I have thoroughly enjoyed dodging incoming fire by moving behind cover and equally disappointed when the fire curve balled round the cover.

Hoping for landscape choke points that provide more 3 dimensionality to pvp hide, attack and defend by elevation, cover, height and depth.

maouw

Yeah taking cover from projectiles sounds fun

It also opens up abilities to do with terrain, and that in turn could interact with those walls/barricades in sieges.

Neaux

I'm sure they'll have line-of-sight checks between your reticle and the skin of your target for action-targeted abilities because that's just easy to code. If your target takes partial cover behind a tree or embankment then you can only hit what you can see. It gets way more complex when you start trying to have items like landscape/furniture etc provide cover for things like explosions or area affects.

The tab-targeted abilities will likely fly right through terrain like they do in most other MMOs but maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised!

Nagash

maouw wrote: »

Yeah taking cover from projectiles sounds fun

It also opens up abilities to do with terrain, and that in turn could interact with those walls/barricades in sieges.

you could do that in the BR so maybe

JamesSunderland

Neaux wrote: »

The tab-targeted abilities will likely fly right through terrain like they do in most other MMOs but maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised!

I sure hope not, Both L2 and AA TT skills could not be used through terrain, and Steven has alot of inspiration from those games, so i expect they don't.

Jayma

Wow spells are block by (absence of) los too, so what are theses TT games where spells fly through obstacles?

Dreoh

Neaux wrote: »

The tab-targeted abilities will likely fly right through terrain like they do in most other MMOs but maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised!

Depends on the MMO.

In GW2 and ESO even tracking projectiles collide with terrain.

Neaux

Jayma wrote: »

Wow spells are block by (absence of) los too, so what are theses TT games where spells fly through obstacles?

I guess I need to clarify what I mean. Sure in an arena (in WoW for instance) you cannot cast on someone through a pillar, but if you get the spell off before they are obscured and then they step behind the pillar the particle effect from the spell will just travel right through the obstacle or through the ground to them.

If I cast a fireball at someone and they jump behind a hill you'll see the fireball travel right through the terrain to hit them - and if a game could do a second check on those type of TT projectiles over their travel time and collide with things in that manner it would add to the realism.

Dreoh

Neaux wrote: »

Jayma wrote: »

Wow spells are block by (absence of) los too, so what are theses TT games where spells fly through obstacles?

I guess I need to clarify what I mean. Sure in an arena (in WoW for instance) you cannot cast on someone through a pillar, but if you get the spell off before they are obscured and then they step behind the pillar the particle effect from the spell will just travel right through the obstacle or through the ground to them.

If I cast a fireball at someone and they jump behind a hill you'll see the fireball travel right through the terrain to hit them - and if a game could do a second check on those type of TT projectiles over their travel time and collide with things in that manner it would add to the realism.

Yea, most modern MMO's can utilize modern technologies to calculate collisions and stuff even for tracking spells.

WoW was created when it was too cost inefficient to constantly track that kind of thing on tracking spells so it only calculated if you had line of sight at the time of casting.

Tinsletown

I'm all for taking cover, just didn't like how people would pillar hump a whole fight.

maouw

Tinsletown wrote: »

I'm all for taking cover, just didn't like how people would pillar hump a whole fight.

That's why it alters how combat works.

When someone is hugging cover, your assassins or flankers have a sitting duck opportunity to strike.

akabear

maouw wrote: »

Tinsletown wrote: »

I'm all for taking cover, just didn't like how people would pillar hump a whole fight.

That's why it alters how combat works.

When someone is hugging cover, your assassins or flankers have a sitting duck opportunity to strike.

That`s is how I see where class imbalance of capabilities comes in. The in your face fighters supported by the ranged and then the assassins sneaking in and picking off where opportune.

1v1 difference classes make it harder to pvp when trying to fight utterly different game play styles, but once in small groups then a whole different game play style.

akabear

I hope there are also rag doll physics.. never get tired of a body getting blown away and then blown a bit more while down!

maouw

akabear wrote: »

I hope there are also rag doll physics.. never get tired of a body getting blown away and then blown a bit more while down!

They've added a little on the impact animations. But once we're down I think we'll be piles of ashes, so no ragdoll there - unless you can blow away someone's ashes

Jayma

Neaux wrote: »

I guess I need to clarify what I mean. Sure in an arena (in WoW for instance) you cannot cast on someone through a pillar, but if you get the spell off before they are obscured and then they step behind the pillar the particle effect from the spell will just travel right through the obstacle or through the ground to them.

I agree wow projectiles are just visual thing, not a real projectile in the game engine, but it have nothing to do with TT specifically.

Hedgemon

akabear wrote: »

maouw wrote: »

Tinsletown wrote: »

I'm all for taking cover, just didn't like how people would pillar hump a whole fight.

That's why it alters how combat works.

When someone is hugging cover, your assassins or flankers have a sitting duck opportunity to strike.

That`s is how I see where class imbalance of capabilities comes in. The in your face fighters supported by the ranged and then the assassins sneaking in and picking off where opportune.

1v1 difference classes make it harder to pvp when trying to fight utterly different game play styles, but once in small groups then a whole different game play style.

I hope pvp is balanced around small scale, not 1v1. 3v3 or 5v5 preffered

Jirue

Dreoh wrote: »

Neaux wrote: »

Jayma wrote: »

Wow spells are block by (absence of) los too, so what are theses TT games where spells fly through obstacles?

I guess I need to clarify what I mean. Sure in an arena (in WoW for instance) you cannot cast on someone through a pillar, but if you get the spell off before they are obscured and then they step behind the pillar the particle effect from the spell will just travel right through the obstacle or through the ground to them.

If I cast a fireball at someone and they jump behind a hill you'll see the fireball travel right through the terrain to hit them - and if a game could do a second check on those type of TT projectiles over their travel time and collide with things in that manner it would add to the realism.

Yea, most modern MMO's can utilize modern technologies to calculate collisions and stuff even for tracking spells.

WoW was created when it was too cost inefficient to constantly track that kind of thing on tracking spells so it only calculated if you had line of sight at the time of casting.

It's a matter of scaling for that. It's still likely to work like that for most "projectiles" since it's very expensive processing wise to do collision checks for every projectile when there's potentially hundreds of player's attacks to check against every other player collision box and environment asset with a collision box in the area.

akabear

/ bump

Any update, new information on this?

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