Resurrection while in combat: Yay or Nay?

I have seen a number of MMOs approach this differently.

Combat Rez can be wonderful to survive tough encounters and makes healers feel awesome for saving their party from a wipe.

On the other hand it can make PvP stupidly annoying and Raid content too easy.

What would you like to see? Resurrection while in combat Yay or Nay?

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Comments

tautau

As someone planning to play as a cleric as my main, I want an active rez spell. I want to be useful and I won't have much dps.

Cold 0ne FTB

In my mind it comes down to how the devs balance it and if there is an appropriate risk vs reward. In ESO for instance to rez a player in combat you either need to commit to a interruptible channel for a few seconds or use an ultimate. This ultimate ability takes a really long time to recharge. Both mechanics are balanced pretty and despite how strong they can be they don't hurt the game play.

George_Black

Yes ofc. For healers and mb the tank/cleric class, rez should be a quick cast. For any other player it should require a consumable (not as common as ESOs soul crystals) and a long casting time, giving time for the opponents to interupt or killer the caster.

But definatly allowed during combat.

JamesSunderland

I believe Resurrection while in combat is a necessity for the healer class(cleric archetype) and something that consolidates it as a unique class.
It's proper balancing only comes down to Cast time and cooldown time.
Also how much exp does it recover from death(assuming it would in ashes).

Gizban

Yay

Nagash

I mean thats the whole job of necromancers

Vhaeyne

Part of the reason why every Savage and Extreme encounter in FFXIV has a enrage timer is to combat the fact that all of the res spells work in combat. The makes it so that in order for fights to be hard(especially at the start of a patch) DPS must be constant. There was no enrage timer and you could just res people up all day. Four DPS with res spells would be the meta. The content would be a lot easier. Most encounters are tuned so that any deaths with a average party's DPS will result in a wipe week one. You might get away with a death if the res is fast enough and DPS is above average.

Not saying that this will be the case for Ashes I just wanted to throw out a point that res changes high end encounter design. WOW only has a handful of combat res spells and they have a long cooldown. This allows for some flexibility with enrage timers in raids. The content in WOW does not have to be tuned as hard.

If we do get any instanced raids encounters in Ashes. The ability to res in combat would defiantly have to be taken into account with tuning raid difficulty.

Dygz

tautau wrote: »

As someone planning to play as a cleric as my main, I want an active rez spell. I want to be useful and I won't have much dps.

Seems likely you will have plenty of dps in Ashes because Cleric healing abilities also wield damage to enemies.

McShave

I would love to see rez in combat. Needs to be not spammable, with a long cooldown or long cast time.

Vhaeyne

McShave wrote: »

I would love to see rez in combat. Needs to be not spammable, with a long cooldown or long cast time.

That is likely the best option.

You got me thinking though...

I would instead like to see it be considered as a 2 person ritual in combat. Like you start casting it and a second player needs to help you channel it in order to coordinate a res in combat. Kind of like the summoning stones in WOW.

Out of combat could just be a normal spell.

Noaani

I could see a spell needing two cleric/* casting simultaneously for an in combat rez - though I would like to see necromancers have a fast casting one on their own on a 5+ minute cooldown.

Make a necro your emergency rez caster, and clerics for more general, less important ones.

Voidwalkers

I'd expect either long-cast combat rez and/or short-cast combat rez with long cooldowns.

IMO having absolutely no combat-rez essentially encourages two things:
1. Those who died during combat are much more likely to go afk
2. Deaths -> awww we can't win let's wipe & restart
... it's boring, and wastes ppl's time.

akabear

Sieges would last only a few minutes and non-events if there was no rez in combat.
Simiarly, rez`ing in PvE from accidental party wipes would be tedious and infuriating if long cast / long cool down.

Comes down to what is defined as long, I guess long being 30sec, 2min, 10min, 20min etc?

ImNotUrFriendGuy

I guess I am in the boat of.... if you have an in combat rez the CD would have to be long. That being said there would have to be an out of battle rez that would be spammable essentially so as to save time in instances so as to avoid wasting time during wipes and what not. I mean a CD of say 15-20 minutes for a combat rez seems reasonable for pvp encounters since those engagements would only allow for one or two cast to be allowed considering most pvp instances wouldn't last longer than 30 minutes I would think.

daveywavey

Yeah, it's something of a necessity. Can you imagine how absolutely boring it would be to take an unlucky hit at the start of a boss fight, and to have to just sit there watching for the next 15mins while your team tried to take it down without you?

Vhaeyne

daveywavey wrote: »

Yeah, it's something of a necessity. Can you imagine how absolutely boring it would be to take an unlucky hit at the start of a boss fight, and to have to just sit there watching for the next 15mins while your team tried to take it down without you?

In most cases for heard end-game content. Someone being down that long would guarantee enrage. The tuning of fights is such that you need everyone, even the HEALERS!!!!! to be doing as much DPS as possible to get the kill. This is the case in WOW/FFXIV at least.

I would not want to fight a boss where anyone could be down for more than 30secs and we still have enough DPS to get the kill. Just sounds too easy.

What I am saying is that if they are tuning these end game fights to be hard, it is not a issue because you will just wipe it up if more than one person dies or someone is dead for too long.

I just don't like combat res because it brings too much attrition too the table. This is true in both PvE and PvP.

daveywavey

It adds extra decisions to the process, though. If it's still early on, then you'll want to get that DD back up to add to the damage dealt. Losing a few seconds of Healer DPS is totally worth it for getting that DD back into the fight. But, if you're near the end of the fight, or some sort of mechanic needs you to do a certain amount of damage in a short window, you might choose to leave them down and continue with your paltry Healer-damage. More decisions = good!

Noaani

Vhaeyne wrote: »

I would not want to fight a boss where anyone could be down for more than 30secs and we still have enough DPS to get the kill. Just sounds too easy.

I know we've had this discussion before, but not all of the difficulty of a top end encounter needs to come from DPS.

That is coming from a primarily glass cannon player.

Things like this are great for DPS checks, but as a general rule, a check of any sort that is this tightly gated only works in a game witha fairly linear gearing paradigm.

In most top end raid fights (actual raids, with 20+ people), someone being down for 30 seconds can be made up with two or three DPS gear upgrades spread around the raid. If there is that small of a gap, it means your raid doesn't have a shot at the content until they have literally all the gear previous to it.

Vhaeyne

daveywavey wrote: »

It adds extra decisions to the process, though. If it's still early on, then you'll want to get that DD back up to add to the damage dealt. Losing a few seconds of Healer DPS is totally worth it for getting that DD back into the fight. But, if you're near the end of the fight, or some sort of mechanic needs you to do a certain amount of damage in a short window, you might choose to leave them down and continue with your paltry Healer-damage. More decisions = good!

It permanently adds a complication to encounter design where mechanics and can be cheesed by abusing purposeful deaths, and makes everything easier globally.

Normally I would agree with "more decisions=good", but in this case you are taking decisions the devs could be making with encounter design and giving them too the players. The devs will have less decisions.

I used FFXIV as a case and point. It is not a decision the devs make to add a enrage timer to each fight in savage/ex. It is outright mandatory when all healers can battle res, and some DPS can battle res. If there was no enrage time many of the fights could be cleared in a hand full of pulls. It would just be too easy.

It is also not great in PvP, because it could just make small skirmishes over a caravan last hours instead of a few minutes.

The more I think about it the more I am against battle res.

Noaani

Vhaeyne wrote: »

I used FFXIV as a case and point. It is not a decision the devs make to add a enrage timer to each fight in savage/ex. It is outright mandatory when all healers can battle res, and some DPS can battle res. If there was no enrage time many of the fights could be cleared in a hand full of pulls. It would just be too easy.

Not going to lie, if a timer is the only thing giving content challenge, that is bad content.

I expect better than this from WoW developers, let alone Ashes.

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