Rewarding exploration

In a lot of mmorpgs, exploration is rewarded with achievements and/or titles that always seemed very arbitrary to me. They basically turn into tick-the-box activities of "go here" "now go there" "congrats, you've explored the world" when all you really did was go from point A to point B to point C.

To me, this isn't exploration, especially when the world is basically the same no matter where you go. All the houses you go to look the same, all the creatures you find are at best re-colours of things you've seen in previous zones.

In order to truly reward exploration there needs to be interesting things to find, things that aren't found anywhere else, like a hidden waterfall in the middle of a jungle, or a unique creature that only lives in a specific part of the world, or a sunken ship that contains a little piece of lore.

TLDR: You don't need a tick-sheet or achievement to reward exploration, just give us interesting and unique things to find.

Question for you all: What kind of things would you like to find while exploring the world?

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tautau

True Love

Jirue

Beautiful views, unknown dangers, and information about the lore of the world. Most recent experience I've had in a game where I truly enjoyed the exploring was Valheim. Whether it be the beautiful lighting and weather effects while exploring the Forest, the brown pants moment a Troll started coming at you from that Forest, or the hedge stones with details about the people who came to that land before you... all of that was some of the best feelings of exploration I'd had in a long time.

Kegger

An abandoned still where I can gather some fermentables and make moonshine. hic

Khronus

I personally don't mind the check box when it comes to exploration as long as it isn't like WOW where you have to explore boring areas by just running to that spot and then boom, miniscule amount of exp and part of your achievement is done.

I would like to see special areas of interest as part of a quest chain to either assault these areas or do some form of recon mission. If this were tied into the story, it would add to the lore while we explore those points of interest. Some of these areas just simply deserve to be viewed and it is nice to be rewarded for doing so.

Kivek RhuKhan

tautau wrote: »

True Love

haha

I want to find a player worth 3 million tree stumps.

But seriously black deserts talk to everyone and go here and there for energy pts was the worst, at least it had autopathing.

Vhaeyne

I agree with your complaints about how other MMORPGs, and even a lot of game reward exploration. It is in fact just checking boxes. My big question about rewarding exploration in games is always this...

Why reward exploration though?

Exploration is its own reward. You learn how to better navigate the world. That is what is important about exploration in both the real world and fake worlds. Anything beyond that is just making exploration out to be more than it actually is.

Back when I played Elite: Dangerous there was a guy who spent like 6 months going as far away from the starting area as possible. A lot of news was generated online about the guy who spent months exploring space that no one had ever seen before. People were excited and praising the game. None of the news about the guy really told the reality of the story. It is extremely repetitive gameplay. Warping... Scooping fuel... Scanning... Warping... Over and Over for months on end. No breaks from that loop, you are too far from any other content. It is about as boring as the Dessert Bus game from Penn and Teller. Yet, people were celebrating this game like it was some sort of explorers dream game. My point is that the act of exploring is over hyped.

What is more important to me is that the landscape stays mostly the same so you are rewarded in learning to get around well, but the locations of creatures and resources change. Which is something I understand Ashes is doing with the hunting grounds and adaptive content. This means that you will always be exploring looking for the mobs you want to grind and the resources you want to gather. While it might seem like a pain in the ass if you are used to knowing where everything is like in other MMOs. I think the dynamic content will reward everyone that is willing to explore and it will make getting resources that much more valuable.

To me just having the adaptive content is a way better exploration system than what most games do. It is part of the reason why Minecraft is so popular. Every time you leave an area and come back there are different mobs there. Anyone who has played modded Minecraft with a ton mobs in the game knows this to be true. Just having less things in the game be static is huge.

George_Black

I think the less GPS we get on minimaps/maps and the less markers we have for Quests (obvisously we need a circle indicator for quest locations), the better the exploration will be

Wandering Mist

Vhaeyne wrote: »

I agree with your complaints about how other MMORPGs, and even a lot of game reward exploration. It is in fact just checking boxes. My big question about rewarding exploration in games is always this...

Why reward exploration though?

Exploration is its own reward. You learn how to better navigate the world. That is what is important about exploration in both the real world and fake worlds. Anything beyond that is just making exploration out to be more than it actually is.

Back when I played Elite: Dangerous there was a guy who spent like 6 months going as far away from the starting area as possible. A lot of news was generated online about the guy who spent months exploring space that no one had ever seen before. People were excited and praising the game. None of the news about the guy really told the reality of the story. It is extremely repetitive gameplay. Warping... Scooping fuel... Scanning... Warping... Over and Over for months on end. No breaks from that loop, you are too far from any other content. It is about as boring as the Dessert Bus game from Penn and Teller. Yet, people were celebrating this game like it was some sort of explorers dream game. My point is that the act of exploring is over hyped.

What is more important to me is that the landscape stays mostly the same so you are rewarded in learning to get around well, but the locations of creatures and resources change. Which is something I understand Ashes is doing with the hunting grounds and adaptive content. This means that you will always be exploring looking for the mobs you want to grind and the resources you want to gather. While it might seem like a pain in the ass if you are used to knowing where everything is like in other MMOs. I think the dynamic content will reward everyone that is willing to explore and it will make getting resources that much more valuable.

To me just having the adaptive content is a way better exploration system than what most games do. It is part of the reason why Minecraft is so popular. Every time you leave an area and come back there are different mobs there. Anyone who has played modded Minecraft with a ton mobs in the game knows this to be true. Just having less things in the game be static is huge.

Exploration is indeed it's own reward, IF there are varied and interesting things to find. I never bothered to go exploring much in Elite Dangerous because 99% of the game looked exactly the same. Occasionally you'd find a different nebula visual, and it was cool going to the Sol system and seeing Earth from outer space, but that was about it.

I agree that adaptive content is important which is why I love the dynamic world Ashes wishes to craft. One thing I read on the wiki recently was that entrances to the Underrealm will open and close based on happenings in the overworld. This alone will reward exploration more than most other mmorpgs.

Wandering Mist

George Black wrote: »

I think the less GPS we get on minimaps/maps and the less markers we have for Quests (obvisously we need a circle indicator for quest locations), the better the exploration will be

This was something I was thinking about recently. Remember in the old Zelda games when you went into a dungeon the first time you were essentially going in blind with no minimap to follow until you found the compass and map for that dungeon.

I would like to see a similar system implemented for Ashes. There is no minimap at the start, just a compass on the UI. In order to get a map you had to buy one. You could buy a basic map from an NPC that would give a very basic lay of the land, only showing things like roads and settlements of the local area. However, you could freely annotate that map and sell your annotated maps to other players.

Noaani

Wandering Mist wrote: »

Vhaeyne wrote: »

I agree with your complaints about how other MMORPGs, and even a lot of game reward exploration. It is in fact just checking boxes. My big question about rewarding exploration in games is always this...

Why reward exploration though?

Exploration is its own reward. You learn how to better navigate the world. That is what is important about exploration in both the real world and fake worlds. Anything beyond that is just making exploration out to be more than it actually is.

Back when I played Elite: Dangerous there was a guy who spent like 6 months going as far away from the starting area as possible. A lot of news was generated online about the guy who spent months exploring space that no one had ever seen before. People were excited and praising the game. None of the news about the guy really told the reality of the story. It is extremely repetitive gameplay. Warping... Scooping fuel... Scanning... Warping... Over and Over for months on end. No breaks from that loop, you are too far from any other content. It is about as boring as the Dessert Bus game from Penn and Teller. Yet, people were celebrating this game like it was some sort of explorers dream game. My point is that the act of exploring is over hyped.

What is more important to me is that the landscape stays mostly the same so you are rewarded in learning to get around well, but the locations of creatures and resources change. Which is something I understand Ashes is doing with the hunting grounds and adaptive content. This means that you will always be exploring looking for the mobs you want to grind and the resources you want to gather. While it might seem like a pain in the ass if you are used to knowing where everything is like in other MMOs. I think the dynamic content will reward everyone that is willing to explore and it will make getting resources that much more valuable.

To me just having the adaptive content is a way better exploration system than what most games do. It is part of the reason why Minecraft is so popular. Every time you leave an area and come back there are different mobs there. Anyone who has played modded Minecraft with a ton mobs in the game knows this to be true. Just having less things in the game be static is huge.

Exploration is indeed it's own reward, IF there are varied and interesting things to find. I never bothered to go exploring much in Elite Dangerous because 99% of the game looked exactly the same. Occasionally you'd find a different nebula visual, and it was cool going to the Sol system and seeing Earth from outer space, but that was about it.

I agree that adaptive content is important which is why I love the dynamic world Ashes wishes to craft. One thing I read on the wiki recently was that entrances to the Underrealm will open and close based on happenings in the overworld. This alone will reward exploration more than most other mmorpgs.

This kind of exploration is the kind of thing I can see working in an MMO.

Exploration where you get to a spot in the world, gain some advantage (experience, coin or an item - or even just achievement credit to those that think this important) will always be just a check list of points to go to when you have the time.

However, if the reward for exploration is simply a better understanding of the world, that is likely to be more rewarding for players actually going out and looking at the world.

Asgerr

Does anybody know if the fog of war that covers the map is shared or individual to players?

By that I mean, will the world map appear fogged if I don't leave my corner of the world? Or will the fog disperse with other players discovering more of the world?

In the event that the fog of war is personal to your character, I would make it so you get an achievement and title for clearing 25-50-75-100% of it in those increments.

Otherwise I wouldn't mind exploration be tied to series of specific interest points, or to having to visit all the nodes, rather than having to explore every square kilometer of the world (including the sea).

Ramirez

One of the best ways i saw a game rewarding for exploration was Lost ark with Adventure book that you need to fill to gain rewards per biome/area...

Like in every area you have a page in you book, you need to discover and learn about all monster in that area , kill them a certain amount of times, you have always some hidden storys/quests and 2 mains quests about the region, dungeons, view points, type of collectable items and recipes from the region ... While you going filling you page to 100% you will get great rewards.

Something like this

Wandering Mist

Ramirez wrote: »

One of the best ways i saw a game rewarding for exploration was Lost ark with Adventure book that you need to fill to gain rewards per biome/area

How is that any different to the sightseeing log in FFXIV, or the map completion in GW2?

Ramirez

Wandering Mist wrote: »

Ramirez wrote: »

One of the best ways i saw a game rewarding for exploration was Lost ark with Adventure book that you need to fill to gain rewards per biome/area

How is that any different to the sightseeing log in FFXIV, or the map completion in GW2?

FFXIV never played, but in gw2 the exploration system never felt the rewards useful, and didn´t give me motivation to explore... The presentation of the books pages like sticker collector from lost ark was really appellative, is like filling a Page in your diary about the lore of that area, and the rewards you get are useful even in the endgame... But yes in general is similar to gw2

Goatrek

The concept of relevant items/rewards and/or cool experiences in the form of events or quests tied into exploration is very important to me so I would have to say that I want just that. Quest items/mobs placed in obscure locations that turn into quest chains with strong end rewards.
Finding cool/important stuff that not everyone else has seen outside in the world and you know people could potentially find you and sabotage that quest or event or whatever just gets the adrenaline going and triggers all my reward systems in an mmo.

Tyranthraxus

Yours truly will explore the entire world, but won't be in any rush to do it - since it's too early to know if future expansions will mean only more content, or also more map-areas; *Would* an expansion necessarily mean more land and more Nodes?

The most useful thing about Fog-of-War and 'checklists' is that they let you know that you still haven't trod everywhere a toon can trod. Wouldn't mind it, if there was something like a sight-seeing log.

dewan58

Wandering Mist wrote: »

TLDR: You don't need a tick-sheet or achievement to reward exploration, just give us interesting and unique things to find.

A friend of mine convinced me to play an indie MMO with a more old-school feel to it called Projoect Gorgon. Originally I was apprehensive because it looked quite unpolished and rough around the edges but I love what they did with rewarding exploration.

Not only are you encouraged to talk with everyone (there are no quest markers) but various NPC's and stuff you find around the world unlocks various new abilities or you can find crafting recipes you can't find anywhere else. Stuff like this is often entirely absent from MMOs now days and the genre has turned into nothing more than follow the linear quest arrow. I truly hope Ashes shy's away from this and incorporates stuff like this to encourage exploration.

godmilk

This is a super important aspect of an MMO and the answer lies with value. There needs to be incentive to explore out into the corners of the world that main quest lines or pathing wouldn't normally take you.

Maybe you have to journey for 20-30 minutes fighting your way through the wilds to get to a waterfall with a special type of collectable resource. Maybe there's a lone quest giver out by that waterfall that pushes you further into the wild but offers a unique quest reward item!

It could be as simple as a small little village with a unique, charming culture where you can pickup some unique stat boosting recipes.

Exploration needs to feel rewarding and the way you do that is by bringing value to the time you spent doing it. I'm not a big fan of rewards built into a game system, like an achievement system that pumps out rewards as you hit "100% explored for X area" It doesn't promote the feeling of being rewarded by the specific area you exploring, only that you're doing another go to x location, walk around, get your reward.

Goatrek

100% Agree, npc vendors with unique recipies/items or quests or perhaps even only an interesting lore snippet are great examples of satisfying and rewarding content when out exploring.

Noaani

Ramirez wrote: »

Wandering Mist wrote: »

Ramirez wrote: »

One of the best ways i saw a game rewarding for exploration was Lost ark with Adventure book that you need to fill to gain rewards per biome/area

How is that any different to the sightseeing log in FFXIV, or the map completion in GW2?

FFXIV never played, but in gw2 the exploration system never felt the rewards useful, and didn´t give me motivation to explore... The presentation of the books pages like sticker collector from lost ark was really appellative, is like filling a Page in your diary about the lore of that area, and the rewards you get are useful even in the endgame... But yes in general is similar to gw2

While the style used to present t the tasks seems like an interesting idea, the tasks themselves are still just a check list of things to do. You are not exploring an area so much as going to an area and doing the same list of a limited number of things that everyone else is doing in the area.

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