Will the (Summoner) Brood Warden be able to off tank end game? Should it?

I've always been drawn to the support-ish roles in MMOs, tanks, healers, buffs, CC etc. Being that summoner is considered a support class, it's the class that I'm drawn to the most as of right now as it's different that anything I have played before. With the information out there so far, it is said that the Summoner can have up to 3 pets out, and in some cases 1 super powerful pet.

It has also been stated that the primary tank archtype will be the end game main tank, but is it possible to have a Brood Warden off tank? With the idea that the secondary tank archtype would have defensive augments for the pets, can or should they be able to off tank with their pet come end game?

I get that the the tank will be the primary, but it seems reasonable that a specific pet tank based pet class should at least be able to do SOME end game tanking limited to off tanking specifically. Am I right? It wouldn't take away from the actual tanks but It would fulfill the need for some players like myself to be useful in end game with a pet class to a niche degree. I think it would go a long way for what options are available for the games content.

If not end game content, would this specific mix of archtypes be able to main tank dungeons? Or will the pet class be forever subjected to just simple experience grinding in mmos? I'm thinking of the pet classes from back in DAOC for example. Always an exp grinder/alt leveler.

What does the community think? I feel like the tanking spec summoner has this concern, as a healing offspec summoner will always be useful since spot healing goes a long way for the mana effiency for the main healers and DPS is always useful.

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Biccus

I would like to tentatively say yes to off tanking or maybe dungeon tanking.
I have no proof but I will assume picking tank as a secondary will add personal survivability and threat(hate) generation.

Probably more of an emergency or mob tank rather than a dedicated boss one.

Dygz

Kalv1441 wrote: »

I've always been drawn to the support-ish roles in MMOs, tanks, healers, buffs, CC etc. Being that summoner is considered a support class, it's the class that I'm drawn to the most as of right now as it's different that anything I have played before. With the information out there so far, it is said that the Summoner can have up to 3 pets out, and in some cases 1 super powerful pet.

It has also been stated that the primary tank archtype will be the end game main tank, but is it possible to have a Brood Warden off tank? With the idea that the secondary tank archtype would have defensive augments for the pets, can or should they be able to off tank with their pet come end game?

How well a Brood Warden will be able to off-tank really depends on the specific augments chosen.
Seems like it should be possible, but we really know next to nothing about Summoner abilities or how Tank augments will affect Summoner abilities.
It could also be that if you wanted to be an off-tank, you should get some augments from Military Nodes.
I think if you want your Brood Warden to be a good off-tank, there will be several avenues available to help make that possible.

But, we don't have enough details to weigh in meaningfully.

daveywavey

I don't suppose we've any way of knowing, yet. We don't even know the Summoner skills.

Damokles

It depends on what he will be able to do with his summons tbh.
Will he summon a add that has high hp and defense or will he be able to summon multiple adds that can soak a percentage of damage for you and your allies.

I would actually preferr him to slip into a tank support role that does not actually tank but rather take the load off for the tanks.
He could, for example, be used to support weaker or/and inexperienced tanks in a raid or dungeon.

Blackhearted

I personally would like to see classes like summoner and warrior be able to offtank. Offtank mechanics are so much fun! Adding to boss fight difficulty by dividing the raid and requiring multitasking

Khronus

As a main tank, I would hope that I wouldn't be stuck face tanking for all eternity. I'll be completely fine if that is the case but if some of my playtime can be dedicated to cc'ing or kiting, that would be really cool.

I love the summoner class in any format and if I wasn't leading a guild I would be playing it. I think it is very unlikely that summoners will be viable in having pets hold aggro and survive efficiently but fingers crossed that there is something more than just supporting with pet buffs or something lame.

Had a quick thought on something that might be really broken....but fun AF. Brood warden summons one very easy to kill Bug (so it can be focus fired down in pvp) that in turn summons up to three of its own "tank" bugs that taunt but die fairly easily as well. If it was able to consistently summon these tank bugs, they could taunt/hold aggro/die/get summoned again. Maybe make it so the main summon is on a longer cooldown and treat it like an "oh shit" spell. It can hold aggro on a boss for 20-30 seconds max to give the raid time to recover.

Blackhearted

That sounds quite fun and u could add things like requiring flagging to damage it or making it really small or mobile.
The summoner would need to have a partner to efficiently use the spell.
I somehow instantly thought of steel shelled scarabs that multiply when killed.

I think they could also make summoner able to rotate summons taking hits and when properly rotated they wouldnt die. I think this would require summons to be somewhat smart. Imagine having 4 summons to move and to use taunt on and other skills with

Ventharien

Well, we know that summoners are somewhat jack-of-all trades like with their summons. And adding a tank archtype should give augments that somehow increase survivabilty. So i guess it depends what you mean by off tank.

I don't think you'll be going in planning to be switching with the main tanks, but maybe you'll be able to pick up a mob that breaks free from the tanks, or someone just needs to hold aggro as a tanks being rezzed. So i guess technically off tanking?

Tacualeon

Tank is not a support role. Who do you think the Boss is facing?

I agree with Biccus

Biccus wrote: »

I would like to tentatively say yes to off tanking or maybe dungeon tanking.

Probably more of an emergency or mob tank rather than a dedicated boss one.

Nagash

daveywavey wrote: »

I don't suppose we've any way of knowing, yet. We don't even know the Summoner skills.

And I've been asking them for years at this point for summoner info but NOPE.

Dygz

That's coming right after Nodes 3.

Nagash

Dygz wrote: »

That's coming right after Nodes 3.

Don't punish me have I not suffered long enough

Jirue

There's some potentially interesting things you could do mechanic wise with a Summoner Tank. Two styles that come to my mind are the following:

Commander: Stands behind a summoned creature and gives direct commands on actions for a summon to perform to draw aggro. Maybe some minor support capabilities to enhance the summon or debilitate the enemy.

Diversion: Mostly builds the aggro directly but has capabilities to offload the aggro built up on to a summon when they need time to recover.

bloodprophet

Nagash wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

That's coming right after Nodes 3.

Don't punish me have I not suffered long enough

Thought you enjoyed eternal suffering?

Vhaeyne

I always thought it would be cool to have a pet class that specializes in tanking.

Back in FFXI I played a lot of Beastmaster. It always made me imagine that tanking could be done by a pet class. In a modern MMO It could be done with a high skill cap from mircoing your pets movements/skills while managing your own movements/skills.

That said, I don't expect Ashes to put that much working into designing a single class out of 64. Such a concept would be a labor of love on the DEVs part to make sure that a class like that is viable or even playable by a human in high-end raid encounters.

My guess is that brood warden will just have a tanky pet that can last, but not replace a real tank. I base this speculation on nothing, but my own intuition.

Nagash

bloodprophet wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

That's coming right after Nodes 3.

Don't punish me have I not suffered long enough

Thought you enjoyed eternal suffering?

I do, when its inflicted on someone else. its never ok when its me

Ventharien

Poor poor Nagash

Nagash

Ventharien wrote: »

Poor poor Nagash

I blame the tomb robbers, coming to my tomb and taking my loot. we should kill them all

Kalv1441

Vhaeyne wrote: »

My guess is that brood warden will just have a tanky pet that can last, but not replace a real tank. I base this speculation on nothing, but my own intuition.

Yeah, I don’t want a tank summoner to replace a main tank. I just want to see this type of class fulfill tanking to some degree that is useful for a party or raid. Whether it’s holding aggro off a big threat generation ability in order to save the rez the tank or to save the tank from lots of damage. Or to have the let class hold aggro on trash mobs good enough for the dps to focus fire them down and go back to attacking the boss. Or maybe even a way to supper the tank with giving the main tank or party with some damage mitigation. Some folks have mentioned some similar ideas on this thread and I think that’s what the hope is.

I’ve just seen too many pet classes kind of fall off end game and only fall into the dps role effectively. The multiple secondary archetypes leads one to believe that this class has a chance to really bring something to the table based on what you’re wanting to assist in. Like what Khronus said below here.

Khronus wrote: »

Maybe make it so the main summon is on a longer cooldown and treat it like an "oh shit" spell. It can hold aggro on a boss for 20-30 seconds max to give the raid time to recover.

Khronus wrote: »

As a main tank, I would hope that I wouldn't be stuck face tanking for all eternity. I'll be completely fine if that is the case but if some of my playtime can be dedicated to cc'ing or kiting, that would be really cool.

They say that tanks will have three different options as far as play style in Ashes. Mitigation, Evasive and Control.

Ventharien

Nagash wrote: »

I blame the tomb robbers, coming to my tomb and taking my loot. we should kill them all

You already have too many skele bros. No need to add to the number.

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