Break the Gank Box -- Evil Suggestions Needed

I was getting hyped about this game and seriously considering dropping the cash for a beta key, but now I am reconsidering ... and open world PvP is the reason.
Steven has said that he doesn't intend for Ashes to be a gank box and that he believes the corruption system will deter that.
As a pacifist MMORPG player, I timidly disagree.
But instead of whining into my herbal tea, I would like to ask the PvPers to offer up their evil plans.
How will you get around the corruption system to gank as many innocent noobs as possible?
Suicide to clear the corruption? Alts just for ganking? Is there a way to cash shop it away?
My intention is to provide insight into how the chaotic evil players will twist the corruption system to their own nefarious ends so that maybe the devs can tweak the system before release to make it more enjoyable for peaceful players.

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JamesSunderland

First to all, it is important for your to comprehend that the Corruption system is not something entirely new and that there is an extremely similar system(in which the corruption system is based on) that was already put under test for years(Lineage 2 Karma system) in one of the most fierce Open world pvp games and even with some ways to play around it(mainly having friends protecting you) it was still an insane risk that would keep PKers at bay.
The Corruption system is even more punitive than Lineage 2 karma system as it even "debuffs" the corrupted players stats and has an even greater exp penalty.

As for your questions:
Q: How will you get around the corruption system to gank as many innocent noobs as possible?
A: I will probably only pk possible high value gatherers/miners individuals and only if i consider the area isolated enough for an easy escape or if i have my gang to back me up.
There is no perfect way to "play around" corruption.

Q: Suicide to clear the corruption?
A:That a good way to have your exp rekt.

Q: Alts just for ganking?
A: A possibility, but not really viable long term.

Q: Is there a way to cash shop it away?
A:Nope.

Noaani

JamesSunderland wrote: »

There is no perfect way to "play around" corruption.

This one sentence sums up my opinion quite well.

If you play Ashes, you absolutely will get attacked by other players at a times. That is a given.

However, there absolutely are things you can do to mitigate it. If you are harvesting by yourself, do so in an area that doesn't have an easy escape route for your attacker. Keep within line of sight of people that are not likely to attack you (other people harvesting - assuming there is plenty of material to harvest). Don't take shortcuts through the woods, etc.

Honestly, I can see more ways of baiting people in to gaining more corruption than they wanted than I can see ways to try and get around it. This means corruption is your weapon to use on them, if you learn how to wield it well.

ThexBlackxKnight

This is a community driven game , joining a guild and being a citizen of a node is going to give you a lot of allies to hang around with and there is going to be a lot stuff to do that is not combat focused. You could spend all your time in the city or on a freehold and not worry to much about pvp for the most part or travel around in groups for strength in numbers. Also other players will have a invested interest in keeping players like you safe since you will be a citizen of a node they are protecting.

George_Black

L2 used the same corruption system. Everything steven has said so far confirms it for me.

Here is what I used to do when I wanted to PK somebody:

1) I would never engage more than 3 people alone. If my target was with more than 2 other people I would bring friends to PK on the nearby players if they attacked me.
2) As soon as I killed my target I would go to kill mobs to burn my corruption status.
3) I would never go beyond 3 PKs at all times. Any time I had 3 PKs total, I would do a repentance quest to lower my PK counts to 0.

That way I could kill anybody I liked without risking losing gear and items.

The corruption system isnt here to protect carebears.
It is here to prevent killing sprees.
It is here to protect the open world pvp setting from constant, mindless player v player situations found in mmos like eso (cyrodiil).
It is here to protect the other features of mmorpgs, character development and progression, crafting and gathering, market trade and world exploration.

It is not here to make you feel safe. There are single player rpgs for that.

Elo

I kind of feel the same as the OP. I love exploring the wilderness far from civilization. Under the current system, I'm not sure I'm going to like it.

Steven has said, "If you go on a murder spree and you have 10 pks under your belt then you might start feeling a significant dampening to your skill effects against other players." And also, "If you're out there and you killed you know 20 players... you will not be able to perform in PVP any longer." To me, that seems like too small of a penalty to be a sufficient deterrent. I think I would be ok with the system if the penalty was much harsher, like -40% stats/hp for your first kill. Then the danger is still there, but red would essentially need to run after a murder.

I'm not trying to ruin anyone's PVP game, I am just being honest, and will be content to sit out if I can't feel the inspiration of exploring. Perhaps rather than gradually tweaking the stat damp during playtesting, they should first bounce it around to see how it feels. Like one day it's -10% and the next day it's -40%. See how it feels and then later fine tune it.

tautau

Don't forget that there is a Bounty Hunter Profession which players can specialize in. Once you progress in it, the Bounty Hunter will have a map to show where corrupted players are. I expect that they will be motivated by quests and profession progression to kill reds. Most of all, corrupted players will have the best drops in the game. If a BH pegs a few decently equipped reds, they will be on the way to being rich.

Might not hurt to have some Bounty Hunter friends and party with them to help them level up, eh?

ThexBlackxKnight

Elo wrote: »

I'm not trying to ruin anyone's PVP game, I am just being honest, and will be content to sit out if I can't feel the inspiration of exploring. Perhaps rather than gradually tweaking the stat damp during playtesting, they should first bounce it around to see how it feels. Like one day it's -10% and the next day it's -40%. See how it feels and then later fine tune it.

This game world is going to be vast and if you pick a class that can stealth you can pretty much explore and not have to worry to much about other players while traveling around. I explored the Alpha One map and its really easy to get away from other players and wander around alone.

Voidwalkers

Q: How will you get around the corruption system to gank as many innocent noobs as possible?

That's exactly what the corruption system is designed to deter - ppl going on a killing spree of innocent noobs. I believe it would be a much wiser choice to actually pick your targets in Ashes -
Some noobs innocently running around in the starting area? Nah.
Some noobs innocently running around with a shit load of valuable gatherables on him? KILL.
Someone annoying you so much that you'd rather take the risk & time to work off some corruption? KILL.

Mindlessly murdering innocent noobs will just rack up so much corruption that you'll quickly get killed by innocent noobs instead. No fun in that.

Back in Eve Online ppl would cargo-scan / ship-scan potential targets (transport ships & expensive-looking PvE battleships) and decide whether a gank is worth the cost (losing your ganking ship to npc guards 100% of the time). Not sure if Ashes will have such "inventory / backpack scanners" though.

Q: get around the corruption

In the early days MMO (e.g. Ragnarok Online) there's the option to "train a crowd of mobs onto other players" and let the mobs do the work for you, but in modern MMOs (with aggro & leash system) I don't think this is possible anymore. Not sure what the case will be in Ashes.
And back in vanilla WoW, warlocks could summon infernals & doomguards and then NOT enslave them & let them run free in starting areas to prey on innocent noobs. Not sure if something similar would be possible in Ashes.

Trax

Anti-PK player here: cops and robbers was my favorite game growing up, cowboys and Indians a close second - if you get ganked sound the alarm, many of us will come running. Very excited about the bounty Hunter system. A game needs bad guys, don’t go to hard on me.

Vhaeyne

SpiralMadheart wrote: »

a, I would like to ask the PvPers to offer up their evil plans.

It's very simple. If I want to kill you and I can afford the risk to do so. I will kill you and accept being red as my "reward" for doing so.

Zeshio

I think it depends on how far rogue skills go as far as hiding/invisibility. I can easily see hitting solo targets, taking their stuff, and then hiding either by rogue skill or by potions/scrolls. I've played plenty of cat and mouse gaming in the past, so this seems the most appropriate. Sneak far enough to get away, then run to a location to dump goods.

If it gets bit spicy as far as being actively targeted without escape, swapping to another character/alt for a couple of hours until people stop searching the main character. Then probably identify low population areas where it's easy to grind out experience and reduce corruption. Just like @JamesSunderland mentioned, going for a single high value target and then working off that corruption would be the smartest. Kill, then clean corruption. Rinse, repeat. Avoids stacking corruption, since we don't know how hard it'll be to get rid of.

If you have buddies around while you're being hunted, you could have them provide false locations in chat, saying they spotted you, etc. Having friends in a group, say three or four, where only one has corruption at a time, allows them to provide protection against any solo or duo bounty hunter.

Ragecon

Bounty hunters... and there will be guilds who specialize in doing this. The idea is once you go red you are now marked on map for them until you can get rid of it. Saw someone say they would just log onto another character but the moment you log back on there will be someone who notices and will start hunting you. Pvp is part of the fun of online games, if you are so against it I would say you are better off just playing single player games at that point.

roost

Elo wrote: »

I kind of feel the same as the OP. I love exploring the wilderness far from civilization. Under the current system, I'm not sure I'm going to like it.

Steven has said, "If you go on a murder spree and you have 10 pks under your belt then you might start feeling a significant dampening to your skill effects against other players." And also, "If you're out there and you killed you know 20 players... you will not be able to perform in PVP any longer." To me, that seems like too small of a penalty to be a sufficient deterrent. I think I would be ok with the system if the penalty was much harsher, like -40% stats/hp for your first kill. Then the danger is still there, but red would essentially need to run after a murder.

I'm not trying to ruin anyone's PVP game, I am just being honest, and will be content to sit out if I can't feel the inspiration of exploring. Perhaps rather than gradually tweaking the stat damp during playtesting, they should first bounce it around to see how it feels. Like one day it's -10% and the next day it's -40%. See how it feels and then later fine tune it.

Sounds like MMOs aren't for you then

Recluse74

Elo wrote: »

I kind of feel the same as the OP. I love exploring the wilderness far from civilization. Under the current system, I'm not sure I'm going to like it.

Steven has said, "If you go on a murder spree and you have 10 pks under your belt then you might start feeling a significant dampening to your skill effects against other players." And also, "If you're out there and you killed you know 20 players... you will not be able to perform in PVP any longer." To me, that seems like too small of a penalty to be a sufficient deterrent. I think I would be ok with the system if the penalty was much harsher, like -40% stats/hp for your first kill. Then the danger is still there, but red would essentially need to run after a murder.

I'm not trying to ruin anyone's PVP game, I am just being honest, and will be content to sit out if I can't feel the inspiration of exploring. Perhaps rather than gradually tweaking the stat damp during playtesting, they should first bounce it around to see how it feels. Like one day it's -10% and the next day it's -40%. See how it feels and then later fine tune it.

All I can say to you and the OP is read what any Lineage 2 players have posted in this thread. In Lineage 2 the karma system worked great and it had less penalties than AoC. While the stat debuff for having too many Pks under your belt is a deterrent, it is not the main deterrent that will shape people's choices, the loss of gear on death will be the biggest penalty.

Going red in Lineage 2 was a huge deal... and I mean huge. I watched the biggest/best PvPer on our server go red, and panic like an ant under a magnifying glass... If the crafting system is as extensive as some people say it might be, dropping gear in this game will not be a fun endeavor just because someone wanted to kill some rando out in the forest who was picking flowers. Those moments will mostly be saved for someone who they truly have ill will for.

Do not get me wrong, random PKing will happen, and I would be willing to bet it will happen daily. I just do not think it will be as bad as you think it will be. So basically... count on it happening, just do not think it will be a daily thing you deal with, unless you piss someone off and they get a hardon for you.

The players who do decide they just want to PK for fun, will mostly do this on alts and at lower levels to keep the replacement gear at the cheapest possible levels. In Lineage 2, dark elf dagger user was everyone's PK choice because you did not need armor, just a dagger and the balls to try and backstab everyone you ran across, then run away.

Gimlog

To me AoC is about who has the sturdiest balls.

As a green player , I'll will make me as knowledgeable as I can to judge my opponent and know if I can take him out or not and know if this guy has the balls to murder me while I'll ignore him.
Being able to judge if it's worth fighting back or not.

As a player going on a killing spree , I will make sure to know that my victim is going to die when I chose to kill him , and this moment will be when he fight back and no others moment. I will pissed him of and harass him until he make the wrong move.
This way at most I risk a purple death penalty.

ThexBlackxKnight

Really this kind of pvp system has not been tested on a modern mmorpg audience , going to be interesting to see how it plays out.

Elo

roost wrote: »

Elo wrote: »

I kind of feel the same as the OP. I love exploring the wilderness far from civilization. Under the current system, I'm not sure I'm going to like it.

Steven has said, "If you go on a murder spree and you have 10 pks under your belt then you might start feeling a significant dampening to your skill effects against other players." And also, "If you're out there and you killed you know 20 players... you will not be able to perform in PVP any longer." To me, that seems like too small of a penalty to be a sufficient deterrent. I think I would be ok with the system if the penalty was much harsher, like -40% stats/hp for your first kill. Then the danger is still there, but red would essentially need to run after a murder.

I'm not trying to ruin anyone's PVP game, I am just being honest, and will be content to sit out if I can't feel the inspiration of exploring. Perhaps rather than gradually tweaking the stat damp during playtesting, they should first bounce it around to see how it feels. Like one day it's -10% and the next day it's -40%. See how it feels and then later fine tune it.

Sounds like MMOs aren't for you then

winner909098

Elo wrote: »

roost wrote: »

Elo wrote: »

I kind of feel the same as the OP. I love exploring the wilderness far from civilization. Under the current system, I'm not sure I'm going to like it.

Steven has said, "If you go on a murder spree and you have 10 pks under your belt then you might start feeling a significant dampening to your skill effects against other players." And also, "If you're out there and you killed you know 20 players... you will not be able to perform in PVP any longer." To me, that seems like too small of a penalty to be a sufficient deterrent. I think I would be ok with the system if the penalty was much harsher, like -40% stats/hp for your first kill. Then the danger is still there, but red would essentially need to run after a murder.

I'm not trying to ruin anyone's PVP game, I am just being honest, and will be content to sit out if I can't feel the inspiration of exploring. Perhaps rather than gradually tweaking the stat damp during playtesting, they should first bounce it around to see how it feels. Like one day it's -10% and the next day it's -40%. See how it feels and then later fine tune it.

Sounds like MMOs aren't for you then

Oh

Don't worry, there will be ways for you to survive out in the open. If you are smart, you can survive.

Dygz

There are players wanting Corruption to be much harsher.
There are players wanting Corruption to be much weaker.
We just have to play to know if the balance feels good enough for us to play.
If the balance works as designed, most people will be willing to play.

tautau

Another scenario:

If there is someone who likes to PK around, go with some friends go hunt near him. Have your friends target him while you tell him to leave your hunting area, or start an argument somehow. Get him mad, threaten him, get him to start a fight...but don't be wearing armor and don't fight back so he kills you and goes red. At once all your friend kill him! He drops much of what he took from you and much of his gear as well as retains some penalty even after this one death.

What you have done is basically ambushed a red and gotten his gear, done to him what he was going to try to do to you.

Not only does the game structure work against reds, so does their very personality.

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