The "Hearthstone" Dilemma - Potential Solution

Making this a separate topic because I feel this may be a solution that is different from anything other games have offered while still sticking true to core values that AoC is promising.

Gliding mounts will be in game and offer players the ability glide or hover above the ground a few feet. For example, a gryphon (with clipped wings I guess? haha). If water mounts allow exceptional travel in water and ground mounts allow for sprints and other functions, why can't "gliding" mounts offer the ability to truly glide through the sky?

During a raid or roaming, your risk is always there with a potential counter raid. Do we really need the risk of traveling back home? Is it really that important for this game to still be fun and engaging and difficult?

My suggestion is this, give players the ability to launch into the air from specific locations in main cities and after a raid is cleared and glide freely until they hit the ground OR for X amount of time. There could be an npc that appears after the end boss is cleared giving you the option. The NPC can tie in to the lore/gods and offer assistance.

What this does it is gives a raid group (or any individual player) a boost from the city to head in the direction they need to go. I am not talking about being able to traverse vast distances....just a boost to clear the area without traveling back through the city. This also gives the raid a way to get some of the travel time back. A reward for defeating the last boss of a raid or dungeon. Maybe even a cool animation that sends us up. I don't see how this could hurt the core values or lower any real risk.

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Maezriel

This seems like something that would best be served by a metropolis buff

Khronus

Maezriel wrote: »

This seems like something that would best be served by a metropolis buff

100% agree. Only having 5 of these static in the world would be very cool. Maybe only give this option during the end of a raid and not a dungeon. I don't see how this would hurt the game and any way and I see it as giving the game something unique to further set it apart from competition.

Vhaeyne

@Khronus

As all players drop a percentage of materials on death, it is still worthwhile to risk going red fighting another successful raid as they leave a dungeon. If you give successful raids an easy escape for winning, it takes away from the risk vs reward.

It should not be enough just to fight your way into the boss and take its loot and magically fly back. I think you should actually have to go there and back again. I always hated the eagles at the end of Lord of the Rings.

I would not care about Ashes at all if I did not see the excitement in Steven when he talks about risk vs reward and open world PvP in interviews. I prefer not to see any risk vs reward diminished with quick trips back to town.

Just how I feel, though.

ariatras

Vhaeyne wrote: »

@Khronus

As all players drop a percentage of materials on death, it is still worthwhile to risk going red fighting another successful raid as they leave a dungeon. If you give successful raids an easy escape for winning, it takes away from the risk vs reward.

It should not be enough just to fight your way into the boss and take its loot and magically fly back. I think you should actually have to go there and back again. I always hated the eagles at the end of Lord of the Rings.

I would not care about Ashes at all if I did not see the excitement in Steven when he talks about risk vs reward and open world PvP in interviews. I prefer not to see any risk vs reward diminished with quick trips back to town.

Just how I feel, though.

One of the main reasons I am against the family summon. "Alright lads. Everyone give the materials to Bob here. Bob's wife is waiting in town to summon him."

Vhaeyne

ariatras wrote: »

One of the main reasons I am against the family summon. "Alright lads. Everyone give the materials to Bob here. Bob's wife is waiting in town to summon him."

I hope it's not that bad.

daveywavey

ariatras wrote: »

One of the main reasons I am against the family summon. "Alright lads. Everyone give the materials to Bob here. Bob's wife is waiting in town to summon him."

"The summon ability in current design could not be used if the member being summoned was in combat, corrupted, or in an event (caravan battle, siege, war) and they would need to have their mats, gatherables, or certs in their warehouse/storage not in their inventory. Otherwise the summon would fail. But as I said, this will all be tested.[3] – Steven Sharif"
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Family_summon

Pretty sure they're not wanting you to be able to family-summon while you have materials on you. But, I still think the summon is a shit idea. Part of a system that involves getting a "special" rested bonus when you're in bed with your spouse. Creepy. Just plain creepy. I can't remember what the age requirement is for this game, but kids already play 18+ games. It could get real dark, real quickly. Would be a shame if Ashes got a reputation for being the paedo's game of choice.

Aerlana

daveywavey wrote: »

Pretty sure they're not wanting you to be able to family-summon while you have materials on you. But, I still think the summon is a shit idea. Part of a system that involves getting a "special" rested bonus when you're in bed with your spouse. Creepy. Just plain creepy. I can't remember what the age requirement is for this game, but kids already play 18+ games. It could get real dark, real quickly. Would be a shame if Ashes got a reputation for being the paedo's game of choice.

Just... never go in goldshire inn in mooguard-US / argent dawn -EU
Never go in some many FFXIV houses (mainly in balmung but not only)

It will be hard to reach such things.
And i would never trust anyone saying me "yes yes all player in are 18+" nope i would never trust it

Tyranthraxus

To be fair, it would SUCK to win a hard raid, get some rare materials from it, then have half of them stolen by "ambush" groups waiting for you to finish, just outside the raid.

CROW3

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

To be fair, it would SUCK to win a hard raid, get some rare materials from it, then have half of them stolen by "ambush" groups waiting for you to finish, just outside the raid.

That's one of the risks in Verra. It's also a risk the ambushers are taking with the corruption system. If I were that raid leader, I would build 'getting home' into the raid, so that the raid isn't over until the group is back in town "safely".

Maezriel

CROW3 wrote: »

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

To be fair, it would SUCK to win a hard raid, get some rare materials from it, then have half of them stolen by "ambush" groups waiting for you to finish, just outside the raid.

That's one of the risks in Verra. It's also a risk the ambushers are taking with the corruption system. If I were that raid leader, I would build 'getting home' into the raid, so that the raid isn't over until the group is back in town "safely".

I mean, is it? A bit of Corruption in trade of some BiS mats isn't much of a risk IMO

CROW3

Maezriel wrote: »

I mean, is it? A bit of Corruption in trade of some BiS mats isn't much of a risk IMO

Yes. You just did a risk / reward analysis. That doesn't mean it's not a risk. That risk would also be increased if the party you think you're going to ambush is still in a raid mindset, completely buffed, and organized.

Dygz

No guarantee you'll get BiS mats from that kill.

Eyskal

No unknown streamers will ever farm in this game. lol they aint got enough backup following.

Maezriel

CROW3 wrote: »

Maezriel wrote: »

I mean, is it? A bit of Corruption in trade of some BiS mats isn't much of a risk IMO

Yes. You just did a risk / reward analysis. That doesn't mean it's not a risk. That risk would also be increased if the party you think you're going to ambush is still in a raid mindset, completely buffed, and organized.

No one coming out of a raid is going to be completely buffed and organized, you got people who died got people low on health/mana from fighting out of the raid area, and as for risk v reward there should be some sense of balance and the reward for jumping a raid for mats is FAR greater than the risk b/c it's unlikely that the raid is going to be carrying around a low level just to ensure you get a big chunk of Corruption.

daveywavey

And the group who've just cleared the raid are good enough to clear the raid, so they're unlikely to drop easily. Just cos the ambush group are going to ambush them, doesn't mean they're going to win.

Noaani

Maezriel wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

Maezriel wrote: »

I mean, is it? A bit of Corruption in trade of some BiS mats isn't much of a risk IMO

Yes. You just did a risk / reward analysis. That doesn't mean it's not a risk. That risk would also be increased if the party you think you're going to ambush is still in a raid mindset, completely buffed, and organized.

No one coming out of a raid is going to be completely buffed and organized, you got people who died got people low on health/mana from fighting out of the raid area, and as for risk v reward there should be some sense of balance and the reward for jumping a raid for mats is FAR greater than the risk b/c it's unlikely that the raid is going to be carrying around a low level just to ensure you get a big chunk of Corruption.

I'm all for the risk portion of raiding in Ashes being in the trip from the encounter back home. To me, this is the most logical way to have instanced raiding in a game like Ashes.

The way I see it, give the raid a set amount of time once the encounter is killed (time to resurect, heal and rebuff), and perhaps three or four different exit points to take, and give them a time limit that they need to get the rewards back home.

To me, this could (should) be similar to the Leviathan in Archeage. You get some rewards for the kill, but the major reward is when you take the head back to a specific location. Others can attempt to take the head off you and take it to where they get the reward rather than where you do.

This turns an instanced raid kill in Ashes in to a potential server wide game similar to capture the flag.

To me, that has the potential to make instanced raiding one of the most directly competitive content types in Ashes.

Khronus

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

To be fair, it would SUCK to win a hard raid, get some rare materials from it, then have half of them stolen by "ambush" groups waiting for you to finish, just outside the raid.

This is a risk that I fully expect and am trying to find the balance between forcing that risk (which we should all want) and limiting the amount of time wasted so that this time can be enjoyable. When I play any game I look at a few key things and one of them is "does this add to the games value or is this purely a time sink to keep me playing". After this many years of gaming, I luckily am able to stop myself from the addiction of a shit MMO when I see the signs (not saying AoC is headed in this direction in any way so far because it isn't).

@Noaani I actually really like that idea. Also being a tank, this would add another level of depth if tanks were to be the top choice to carry the head.

Maezriel

Noaani wrote: »

Maezriel wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

Maezriel wrote: »

I mean, is it? A bit of Corruption in trade of some BiS mats isn't much of a risk IMO

Yes. You just did a risk / reward analysis. That doesn't mean it's not a risk. That risk would also be increased if the party you think you're going to ambush is still in a raid mindset, completely buffed, and organized.

No one coming out of a raid is going to be completely buffed and organized, you got people who died got people low on health/mana from fighting out of the raid area, and as for risk v reward there should be some sense of balance and the reward for jumping a raid for mats is FAR greater than the risk b/c it's unlikely that the raid is going to be carrying around a low level just to ensure you get a big chunk of Corruption.

I'm all for the risk portion of raiding in Ashes being in the trip from the encounter back home. To me, this is the most logical way to have instanced raiding in a game like Ashes.

The way I see it, give the raid a set amount of time once the encounter is killed (time to resurect, heal and rebuff), and perhaps three or four different exit points to take, and give them a time limit that they need to get the rewards back home.

To me, this could (should) be similar to the Leviathan in Archeage. You get some rewards for the kill, but the major reward is when you take the head back to a specific location. Others can attempt to take the head off you and take it to where they get the reward rather than where you do.

This turns an instanced raid kill in Ashes in to a potential server wide game similar to capture the flag.

To me, that has the potential to make instanced raiding one of the most directly competitive content types in Ashes.

Honestly I'd rather see those who are participating in the raid (open or instanced) get a buff that last for X amount of time (maybe an hour or so?) that makes them immune to death penalties so that you can concentrate on the raid itself.

If raids in Ashes are meant to be hard the last thing you should have to do after a battle is fight all the way back against fresh people...There's limits to the level of "risk" that's actually fun in a game and having a gauntlet on the way, during, and after a raid just sounds exhausting.

Khronus

@Maezriel I agree. We all want to enjoy this game but also have something that is difficult and rewarding for the risks we decide to take. There is a fine line between fun and exhausting imo. This game will not succeed without the subscription numbers to support it.

I do think the risk should be there before, during and after the raid but my main issue was the amount of time I am going to have to waste on travel while organizing a group and keeping them entertained and engaged. I'm not sure if people have even explored the idea of not doing content on the other side of the world because it is simply too far. Would all raids end up dropping the same gear (which would be pretty shitty content at that point if we can simply farm the same raid instead of needing to do several). organize the raid for 15-20 minutes, head out of town (2-5 minutes because of city size), run to the shore and get into the ship (will there still be a ferry to take?), traverse the water, travel on land to the dungeon....I mean how much time has passed just to start the content?

If it's taking 30 minutes to get to a dungeon and 30 minutes to get back.....this isn't a risk vs reward issue, this is my game turning into a part time job where I commute and don't get paid for it. This doesn't sit well with me.

On the flip side (because I do honestly try to see the blessings in every curse), this could open up for the potential to focus on sieging the enemy instead of raiding the content thus allowing the opportunities for nodes to evolve closer to you.

A final thought, the direction seems to be heading to a place where PvE is going to be real bad in AoC and require minimal skill if there is no player to counter you. Quick mindless boss fights just to keep the materials flowing and an atmosphere that is heavily weighted on sieges, caravans, and PvP. I hope I am wrong here. I want the PvP in Ashes very much but I also want to enjoy organizing the guild, exploring difficult boss fights, min/maxing with the group and actual progression.

Noaani

Maezriel wrote: »

If raids in Ashes are meant to be hard the last thing you should have to do after a battle is fight all the way back against fresh people...There's limits to the level of "risk" that's actually fun in a game and having a gauntlet on the way, during, and after a raid just sounds exhausting.

Something to keep in mind with this - it is extremely unlikely in Ashes that any raids that may he instanced would be multi-encounter.

The exhaustion after a raid is due to the time spent in the zone, not just the last encounter.

Also, since there should be multiple directions to leave the instance, and each guild would have multiple places they could take the reward to, it isnt as much about fighting your way back as it is making your way back.

Instanced raids in Ashes simply wont happen without some means of PvP being added to the mix. Since that PvP cant happen during the encounter (obviously), there needs to be some added risk of PvP after the encounter.

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