PvX focus Zones... just brainstorming

So, just an idea to add a bigger focus to PvX in some parts of the world, as opposed to only having naturally occurring PvX through the entirety of the world of Verra.

What if there were a few endgame zones/areas spread even across the world, I was thinking perhaps instanced, that held specific resources and even the stations required to process or craft with them that aren't available anywhere else. The only reason these would be instanced is because they would act as areas for PvP focused objectives/Battlegrounds where the objectives directly affect your ability to gather the resources or unlock the stations you need there. This is just a bare bones concept I thought of and honestly it doesn't even need to be instanced, it would just make teams more manageable and team balancing could be better managed to prevent a 1 sided event and keep things challenging for both sides.

There could also be plenty of other PvE incorporated besides the resource gathering and crafting incentives such as specific world bosses and quests or mobs with crafting recipe incentives (perhaps geared more towards PvP).

I just think while natural PvX is a beautiful concept and should have its own incentives keeping it completely viable (such as the only resources in the PvX focused zone being ones not available elsewhere and still need to be used alongside other materials located outside of these zones), there would be a benefit to having these hot-zones where it is hyper aggressive and always a fun struggle to interact there.

I dont know, just a shower thought. Lets hear your thoughts on this and what you would improve upon. Give reasons why you think this would be good or bad, and try to be unbiased as far as being against PvE or PvP goes because this is a PvX concept for a PvX game.

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Okeydoke

I like the idea in concept. Sounds great for a game like New World, a game that desperately needs content and things for players to fight over and reasons to fight over it. It could be done in the open world in New World but there's a pvp toggle, so it'd have to be instanced forced pvp.

In Ashes there is no pvp toggle, so near everything can be done in the open world. People won't be able to circumvent the system by just turning pvp off and harvesting whatever strategic resources they want care free. In Ashes, every area of the world that is worth a damn WILL be "areas for PvP focused objectives/battlegrounds where the objectives directly affect your ability to gather the resources" by default.

If you want to harvest the strategic resource near Winstead node but you know they watch and defend those resources from outsiders, then that becomes an ever present "scenario" of it's own. Any time you want to harvest that stuff you have to have a plan. Maybe send a spy to keep an eye on it and sneak in when there's no one watching. Maybe get a group together and take the resources by force. Maybe create a trade/diplomatic agreement for them to share those resources with your group while you share resources to them that you have easier access to.

If the devs just instance that, you lose all the dynamic situations that can happen from it being in the open world.

Dolyem

Okeydoke wrote: »

I like the idea in concept. Sounds great for a game like New World, a game that desperately needs content and things for players to fight over and reasons to fight over it. It could be done in the open world in New World but there's a pvp toggle, so it'd have to be instanced forced pvp.

In Ashes there is no pvp toggle, so near everything can be done in the open world. People won't be able to circumvent the system by just turning pvp off and harvesting whatever strategic resources they want care free. In Ashes, every area of the world that is worth a damn WILL be "areas for PvP focused objectives/battlegrounds where the objectives directly affect your ability to gather the resources" by default.

If you want to harvest the strategic resource near Winstead node but you know they watch and defend those resources from outsiders, then that becomes an ever present "scenario" of it's own. Any time you want to harvest that stuff you have to have a plan. Maybe send a spy to keep an eye on it and sneak in when there's no one watching. Maybe get a group together and take the resources by force. Maybe create a trade/diplomatic agreement for them to share those resources with your group while you share resources to them that you have easier access to.

If the devs just instance that, you lose all the dynamic situations that can happen from it being in the open world.

I mean you will still have that absolutely. This is just another area type idea that could be a supplement for a type of battleground while still keeping true to PvX. The open world idea is absolutely awesome and all of the things you just stated would still be going on. This idea is more to create areas where it is a constant, instead of a fluctuation of activity, and it still provides incentives to pair with the other things you mentioned. Not to pmention it puts a validity on the PvP crowd to do what they are good at in order to help with progressing themselves and others through crafting.
Maybe its just unnecessary but I think it would just be a fun addition of content.
And New world needs way more content than just that hahaha

JustVine

Do you want corruption turned off in your area concept?

Do you want the gear obtainable here to be better than gear you can get from high level crafting and raids?

Dolyem

JustVine wrote: »

Do you want corruption turned off in your area concept?

Do you want the gear obtainable here to be better than gear you can get from high level crafting and raids?

Yea I think corruption off would be a good idea to create more incentive for conflict. And I wouldn't make gear the incentive, it would be specific materials and recipes for crafting, and I would want a good amount of scarcity for both. The idea would be a zone with a PvP focus to attain crafting resources and recipes that you would also need to complete outside PvE content to utilize them. As far as how good the gear is? I wouldn't make it the be all end all necessarily, just scale the gears validity to other gear/content according to the difficulty and stage of the game it is meant for.

JustVine

Hmk. So it sounds like you want hardcore pvpers to have a way to I guess 'contribute' to the crafting side while getting corruption free pvp? I don't have any qualms with that I think. Especially if it didn't become 'the meta' for crafters or force me to have to do 'gathering but now there is no corruption system to balance things out. So sure, sounds fine to me. Happy to welcome more people to the crafting ecosystem.

Dolyem

JustVine wrote: »

Hmk. So it sounds like you want hardcore pvpers to have a way to I guess 'contribute' to the crafting side while getting corruption free pvp? I don't have any qualms with that I think. Especially if it didn't become 'the meta' for crafters or force me to have to do 'gathering but now there is no corruption system to balance things out. So sure, sounds fine to me. Happy to welcome more people to the crafting ecosystem.

For sure, and its literally only like 1 or 2 niche resources for each zone like this. There wouldn't be any other typical resources so it still gives incentive to gather and craft outside of these areas. These are more for a constant aggressive environment for specific resources and recipes. Just gives more incentive to PvP so one can progress in PvE.
If anything my goal is to keep both things valid and create hyperfocused areas to emphasize PvX.

JustVine

Dolyem wrote: »

JustVine wrote: »

Hmk. So it sounds like you want hardcore pvpers to have a way to I guess 'contribute' to the crafting side while getting corruption free pvp? I don't have any qualms with that I think. Especially if it didn't become 'the meta' for crafters or force me to have to do 'gathering but now there is no corruption system to balance things out. So sure, sounds fine to me. Happy to welcome more people to the crafting ecosystem.

For sure, and its literally only like 1 or 2 niche resources for each zone like this. There wouldn't be any other typical resources so it still gives incentive to gather and craft outside of these areas. These are more for a constant aggressive environment for specific resources and recipes. Just gives more incentive to PvP so one can progress in PvE.
If anything my goal is to keep both things valid and create hyperfocused areas to emphasize PvX.

Tavern game recipe 'dunir bar brawl' >.>

Dolyem

JustVine wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

JustVine wrote: »

Hmk. So it sounds like you want hardcore pvpers to have a way to I guess 'contribute' to the crafting side while getting corruption free pvp? I don't have any qualms with that I think. Especially if it didn't become 'the meta' for crafters or force me to have to do 'gathering but now there is no corruption system to balance things out. So sure, sounds fine to me. Happy to welcome more people to the crafting ecosystem.

For sure, and its literally only like 1 or 2 niche resources for each zone like this. There wouldn't be any other typical resources so it still gives incentive to gather and craft outside of these areas. These are more for a constant aggressive environment for specific resources and recipes. Just gives more incentive to PvP so one can progress in PvE.
If anything my goal is to keep both things valid and create hyperfocused areas to emphasize PvX.

Tavern game recipe 'dunir bar brawl' >.>

Okeydoke

Dolyem wrote: »

I mean you will still have that absolutely. This is just another area type idea that could be a supplement for a type of battleground while still keeping true to PvX. The open world idea is absolutely awesome and all of the things you just stated would still be going on. This idea is more to create areas where it is a constant, instead of a fluctuation of activity, and it still provides incentives to pair with the other things you mentioned. Not to pmention it puts a validity on the PvP crowd to do what they are good at in order to help with progressing themselves and others through crafting.
Maybe its just unnecessary but I think it would just be a fun addition of content.
And New world needs way more content than just that hahaha

I feel ya, definitely do. I loved instanced scenarios in Warhammer. And I really loved how the result of that scenario, who won or who lost, affected zone control between the factions in the open world.

But instancing is a slippery slope. Instanced pvp scenarios would instantly create a class of player that that's either all or mostly what they do, always. If these instances yield any kind of worthwhile resource or monetary value rewards, that class of player could completely make a living in game mostly staying in instances, which defeats the whole open world vision of the game.

Game servers have a finite population cap, concurrent and total. If 10% of players are in an instance at all times, the server feels 10% less populated and alive. Yeah "all the things I stated" would still be going on, but there would be that much less people participating in it at any given time. It'd be less exciting, less dynamic.

And then you'd run into the problem of pve'rs saying "well pvpers have instances for pvp things." And it'd create a shitstorm. They would demand that more pve is instanced too. Next thing you know were left with a game that is radically different than the original vision. For no reason really. The idea you're pitching already takes place in the open world, just on a much cooler and grander scale, with more variables and potential outcomes.

I don't see Intrepid going the instancing route. It's one of their very clearly and passionately stated core principles to not have instancing in any substantial form.

The only way I see it happening is if Intrepid runs into financial trouble and technical problems with implementing a fully open world and Steven makes the decision to just start instancing stuff because it's easier and they gotta get the game out or the studio is going to go broke.

George_Black

This concelt takes away players from the open world, which is what the game is all about.
Pvp players will spend all their time in something like this.
Since the pvp players will be at this zone, pve players in the rest if the world will ve safer.

It dilutes the game. I dont like it.

Dolyem

@Okeydoke @George Black Alright then, set the instancing aside. How about open world zones of the same idea, but there's no corruption in these areas? You maintain the open world aspect and there are PvE objectives players have to compete for knowing full well that this is a place where PvP aggression isn't punished by a corruption system? This would also allow single players, or several groups of players to compete with each other. Only downside would probably be that during non-peak hours, people would just farm spam the areas when its least active. Though I guess you could make the resources themselves only spawn during peak hours, or have specific events there be completed for it to spawn, and have these events require a reasonable amount of work.

This entire idea aside I really hope there are ranked PvP formats. Its just too much fun to not have in an MMO, but thats just my own opinion.

JustVine

George Black wrote: »

This concelt takes away players from the open world, which is what the game is all about.
Pvp players will spend all their time in something like this.
Since the pvp players will be at this zone, pve players in the rest if the world will ve safer.

It dilutes the game. I dont like it.

I agree it shouldn't be instanced.

If it makes the rest of the world 'safer' then uh.... Good? I am sure you'll take the responsibility of making sure us gatherers don't get the wrong idea

JamesSunderland

As long as it is not instanced, it's a good idea.

Sathrago

I think the battlegrounds we were told about will do this sort of thing, aside from the instancing. At least that was my understanding of them. Open world zones that flag you for combat when you go in them and there are resources to fight over inside them.

Okeydoke

There already are several pvp systems where the corruption mechanics don't apply and you can kill and die with no pvp/corruption consequences. Caravans, guild wars/castle sieges, node wars/node sieges. Some of those, especially in the case of node and guild wars will manifest themselves in kind of the way you're talking.

Like a guild or node who's at war with another decides they want to visit this resource harvesting area, or a dungeon and the resources within, an area that they know the enemy guild/node frequents. They decide they want to go there and stop the enemy from harvesting those things and harvest it themselves. And so it'd essentially be a scenario of who can push the other out and harvest those resources, a battle. That will happen on a daily basis probably.

Instancing that in any way is pretty much a no from me and for many others. It's one of the main reasons were here, because the devs said from the start how little instancing there would be. Some people do want more instancing though.

The general idea you have of more corruption free pvp zones in the open world is something I'm not necessarily against. But it would have to fit in with the theme of the game in my opinion. It makes sense to me that guild wars and node wars don't have corruption penalties. It makes sense to me that just wanton, random pvp murder does have corruption penalties associated with it.

An area or a zone that is "outside of the reach of the law" and anything goes, I can see that fitting in maybe in some kind of implementation. I'm not fully on board or off board with the idea. I'd have to think about it a lot and the ways it could affect the game as a whole. I think I might have read somewhere that far offshore pvp naval fights might not be affected by the corruption mechanic, not sure.

George_Black

Two things I dont like:
Why no corruption? These areas will take all the pvp population. Pve and pvp will be separated, have no doubts about that. Abd that's bad for the game.
The other thing I dont like are pathways for rewards outside of trading, crafting and looting mobs. Such pathways weaken the value of the main currency and items. I dont like alternative currencies and alternative progression paths.

Your concept fragments the population.

PvEvP will be great. Why have a parallel zone as well with different rules?
For PvP there will be sieges caravans and perhaps some meaningful arenas.
For PvE there will be some instanced raids.

We will gave naval content as well, an underground world and node relationships.
We have enough systems and we should focus on depth and quality over quantity.

George_Black

Look at Cyrodiil in eso. The most boring concept there is. Meaningless pvp, meaningless mobs. And I spend at least 2 years in there since there was nothing else in mmo pvp at that time. It was boring. And then it got ruined even more to poor performance.

My point being if there are no concequences (cyrodiil no rules pvp) and no rewards (too many rewards in a game make all items less valuable and beeded only for specific gameplay), then the concept is boring, eating away at the expense of the rest of the game

CROW3

Hm… I like the idea of having powerful processing locations within an open, dangerous environment. What comes to mind is Erebor. Epic crafting location, protecting by a big baddie, and contested by other teams.

Sounds fun to me. 👍

Dolyem

George Black wrote: »

Two things I dont like:
Why no corruption? These areas will take all the pvp population. Pve and pvp will be separated, have no doubts about that. Abd that's bad for the game.
The other thing I dont like are pathways for rewards outside of trading, crafting and looting mobs. Such pathways weaken the value of the main currency and items. I dont like alternative currencies and alternative progression paths.

Your concept fragments the population.

PvEvP will be great. Why have a parallel zone as well with different rules?
For PvP there will be sieges caravans and perhaps some meaningful arenas.
For PvE there will be some instanced raids.

We will gave naval content as well, an underground world and node relationships.
We have enough systems and we should focus on depth and quality over quantity.

A few areas with no corruption and heavy PvP focus isn't going to make every PvPer on the server suddenly abandon everything else the game has to offer just to go run around there. They will likely enjoy the areas, but theres much more content that needs to be done to progress in the game.

The entire concept of this game is to make PvP and PvE viable together and participation in both required for progression. This is literally an idea to just make a few areas extra dangerous, while also adding incentive for PvE content and gathering/crafting.

Not sure what currency you're talking about? All I said was to make an area without corruption and PvP focus to make the PvE content there extra difficult to acquire.

Literally any activity technically fragments the population. You could argue having sea content fragments the population because there are less people on the land.

PvEvP will be great, and having a few small high level zones that makes it more challenging with extra content makes for better endgame.
PvP has Lots of great things so far
PvE has lots of great things so far.
There isn't anything wrong with attempting to bring both closer together in a fun endgame concept that pits players against one another.

Yes there will be Naval content, you could even make the naval aspect of the game part of this concept which would be really fun and add an extra sense of danger to crossing open water.
The Game is already ambitious, so until it really becomes a problem I see no harm in coming up with as many interesting and fun ideas to toss around and experiment with until the game really begins to be fleshed out.

Dygz

Ashes doesn't have an endgame.
The levels of an area will be determined by the rise and fall of Nodes.

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