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End game isn't necessarily PvP, but politics. People will fight for power amongst the community and the powerful people make the decisions that impact the world. Also an interest in the pve content will lead to an interest in pvp content, and vice versa, as they will go hand in hand to unlock new content. PvP and PvE don't have to live in separate worlds.

This game is more than just pvp, pve, pvx, and crafting, but will also be heavily enjoyed by casual players and the rp community. By casual, i mean it isn't a rush to get to end game and min/ max everything, you can do what you want at your own pace. The amount of people that are interested in this game just to decorate their house or run a tavern is significant.

I don't think you should underestimate the quantity and quality of PvE content. How many dungeons did they have in the Alpha 1 island? And that was only 1/5 of the world size. We also know that there will be some sort of story line that will be PvE related, and instanced for those that don't want the PvX experience.

ptitoine

McShave wrote: »

End game isn't necessarily PvP, but politics. People will fight for power amongst the community and the powerful people make the decisions that impact the world.

It also depend of the Number. Usually Min/Max Meta people are a small amount of Casual player. So even mix/Max player might not even control the world as much as we think.

I think more Casual Player living in the Node doing gathering and RP their Houses might have a stronger control sinse their number might impact more the Mayorship vote than a few Min/Maxer.

In term of war tough they might have a stronger control sinse their fighting force might be stronger. But even there if they lost the mayor vote their node might not even want to fight agains another one.

The only thing that bother me the most is the Death Penalty. Im sure somes peoples will their to abuse it. By attacking players

Okeydoke

tiberiustheron wrote: »

The MMO can not class itself as PvP, PvE, or even PvX. It has to be an MMO for everyone. From the crafter, to the gather, to the raider, to the players who enjoy conflict. The MMO has to have something for everyone and a quality amount of content at launch.

Ashes does have something for nearly everyone, the crafter, the gatherer, the raider and the pvper. That doesn't mean it's going to line up with each individual person's preferences in each area. The pvper might want full loot drop, consequence free at all times pvp, not happening in Ashes. The raider might want every raid to be instanced and accessed by teleportation, not happening in Ashes. But both groups are catered to regardless.

All pvp focused mmorpgs have not failed. You list Eve, that's one. Albion Online, Mortal Online series, Darkfall series, Black Desert, Lineage, the survival mmos like Atlas, Ark and Conan...that's all just off the top of my head, there's a lot more than that. There's definitely a market for pvp focused mmos. It's undeniable. But if you look at the list of pvp focused mmos you begin to see a pattern. Many of them are underfunded, p2w, full loot toxicity, feature incomplete, buggy messes.

Ashes is looking to avoid all of that and actually make a good game. Whether or not it's a "pvp focused" game is up for debate. In a sense, it's neutral. You can't turn pvp off and you must do some form of pve to progress. You will be forced at times to do both. Pvx as they call it.

I disagree about Archeage. I can only speak for my server, but it failed primarily because of p2w. As soon as the thunderstruck log p2w hit my server's population started dropping drastically. On top of that, we had already been dealing with p2w for months. There already were p2w'd out of their minds players running around who could take on 5, 10, 15 players with ease. The thunderstruck log update let everyone know that not only were the devs not going to fix that, they were doubling down on the p2w. Why am I sitting here planting these crops on my farms for the 1000th time to make money when others can just buy all the best gear in minutes with real life money? Absolutely game breaking.

And New World? New World is one of the worst thought out games I've ever seen. It has a lot of potential, and it has some time and certainly the resources to get it's act together. But it has big problems that need attention. I can't even begin to type it all out. End game content can be reached in 3 days, youtubers have proved it. The action combat is a buggy mess, streamers have proved it. The structure of pvp is a mess. What faction controls cities doesn't really matter, the rewards and penalties aren't big enough so there's no incentive to actually care about it. There's not big enough incentive to really flag up for pvp period. There are no faction population caps, so the pvp will be extremely unbalanced on many servers. Many servers will be dominated by one color, rendering the whole pvp system useless. The quests are absolute garbage, some of the worst I've seen in 25 years of playing mmos. Same thing over and over. The raids are use 4 or 5 abilities, spam left click, dodge around rinse and repeat.

In many respects, Ashes should look at what New World did and just do the opposite.

Talents

I would encourage the Dev Team to make similar changes that New World has done now. New World started out as a trash PvP focused game. I Alpha tested it from the start. AGS kept asking us for feedback, listened, and make the big changes needed. New World is going to release now and be hugely successful. It's now a nice hybrid model of both PvP and PvE. It has something to do for ALL players. Not just those of us who want to PvP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H47ow4_Cmk0

George_Black

How about no? NW is doing that. AoC is doing its thing.

SirChancelot

George Black wrote: »

How about no? NW is doing that. AoC is doing its thing.

Well I could point at that most PvP focused games don't last as long as ones that have both healthy PvP and PvE... More to do makes more players happy as long as they can do both well

George_Black

Clearly you never played L2

Okeydoke

George Black wrote: »

How about no? NW is doing that. AoC is doing its thing.

New World isn't even released yet. Ashes hasn't even tested any of the system's it has in mind to keep the game from becoming a pvp gankbox.

Guys already here to change the game. Like "nope nope nope, trust me guys I helped castrate the pvp in New World, I know what Ashes needs too."

Marcet

I hope too that we have amazing PvE in this game, with lots of variety, quests and big epic dungeons, but all of this is gonna be contested with PvP.
I think the better the PvE content is in the game, the more significant the PvP will be, since without objectives to fight for, theres no incentive in the open world.

SirChancelot

George Black wrote: »

Clearly you never played L2

No, tried UO, was was on shadowbane, picked up wow in '07... Mostly played RTS games in early 2000's though.

George_Black

Well, L2 was fully open world, no separation of players into PvE and PvP zones or instances.
It had the same corruption system and it was aline and well for 15 years at least, just selling expansions and requiring monthly subscription.
Much better than AA regarding PvP and PvE, not good for lifeskills.

In addition to the many, highly populated official servers there was and still is a vast amount of private servers.

So this "pvp games dont last" sounds like bs to me.

Talents

George Black wrote: »

Well, L2 was fully open world, no separation of players into PvE and PvP zones or instances.
It had the same corruption system and it was aline and well for 15 years at least, just selling expansions and requiring monthly subscription.
Much better than AA regarding PvP and PvE, not good for lifeskills.

In addition to the many, highly populated official servers there was and still is a vast amount of private servers.

So this "pvp games dont last" sounds like bs to me.

Tbh Lineage 2 still gets a decent amount of Twitch viewers thanks to the Russians. It had like 3k viewers or something when I checked a few days ago.

But yes, bad PvP games dont last, but neither do bad PvE games. Maplestory 2 was a PvE game and died almost instantly.

Vhaeyne

New World has yet to prove itself as a viable game in the long term, and yet OP wants Intrepid to copy it.

While the two main inspirations for Ashes were perfectly stable game models until they were mismanaged. Lineage 2 and ArcheAge would have lasted for decades in the western markets if it was not for greed. Both games were beloved by their communities. A great example is Steven dedicating his time and finances to trying to recreate the magic of those games.

SirChancelot

George Black wrote: »

Well, L2 was fully open world, no separation of players into PvE and PvP zones or instances.
It had the same corruption system and it was aline and well for 15 years at least, just selling expansions and requiring monthly subscription.
Much better than AA regarding PvP and PvE, not good for lifeskills.

In addition to the many, highly populated official servers there was and still is a vast amount of private servers.

So this "pvp games dont last" sounds like bs to me.

How good was the PvE in L2

bigepeen

PvP isn't the sole focus. The entire premise of the OP is false.

PvX, risk/reward, and player interaction are the main focus according to Intrepid.

Let's not turn this game into yet another WoW clone in a trend that has lead to the decline of the MMO genre.

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