Sh*tpost about people wanting to solo in mmos

From another mmos forums:

"This is more venting than anything, but I'm trying to do as many group Dungeon's solo as I can on this most recent toon. I'm on Blackheart Haven, and I very nearly soloed it up until the last boss, which is basically impossible it seems. I don't like grouping up because I have a super unreliable internet connection, and I don't wanna waste other people's time by disconnecting mid-way through a dungeon. But here I am, sitting in dungeon queue, messaging in zone chat, and literally no one is joining up for this. I hate wasting the little amount of time I do have before my internet poops itself doing nothing except waiting to redo the dungeon I already almost finished were it not for the dumb final boss shenanigans. I refuse to skip story content regardless of where they're located before anyone tells me to. I'm sorry, but It should be possible to complete every dungeon by yourself if you want to.

On another dungeon related gripe, it drives me mad that you get kicked to the beginning of the dungeon if you're offline for a certain amount of time. With my internet connection the way it is, I have to hope and pray I don't get DC'd every time I do one of these because I'll get stuck redoing the whole thing due to no fault of my own. Why can't we just get saved to where we are unless we CHOOSE to leave the dungeon? You do it everywhere else for the most part, why not here?"

I could be wrong, but I dont think the guy is trolling.

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Noaani

I am going to assume that this is ESO.

I know he said the server name he is on, but I couldn't even name the server I used to play on, let alone any others. The attitude just screams ESO to me.

That is the downside that game has always had. It is an online RPG of a single player RPG franchise (arguably the most loved of all time). As such, it will always have more people in it wanting to solo - and assuming they should be able to do so - than any other game out there.

Edit; if it turns out that the game in question isn't ESO, kindly disregard the above.

Vhaeyne

What game is it? It sounds a hell of a lot like ESO to me.

I don't think it's trolling. I have met people who tell me that. They normally use the excuse "My internet connection is bad" as cover for "I know I am playing wrong, but don't want to learn to play right".

Some people are so against being told how to play a game that they won't play with anyone ever.

You will also encounter these people in MOBAs sometimes. I have a friend who has most of the champs in LOL, but has never played in a non-bot game... He just likes the way the champs looks and thinks the way he is playing it is fun. I have tried to get him out of his shell and into a normal 5v5 game, but he says things like: "people are just to toxic" and "my wireless router cuts out too much".

Sathrago

For those wondering:

Dolyem

A Massively Multiplayer Online game should never cater to the individual. Always to the group and community. This guy needs to go back to god of war and other single player games if he wants himself to be the focus of the games design.

Sathrago

Dolyem wrote: »

A Massively Multiplayer Online game should never cater to the individual. Always to the group and community. This guy needs to go back to god of war and other single player games if he wants himself to be the focus of the games design.

The reason why people are more and more attracted to solo play is mainly due to how they are seen by other players. "Oh wow that dude can solo something that people normally need a group for." They want to be the protagonist in a world that is incapable of making a pathway for such gameplay without ruining the multiplayer aspect of the game.

That or they are people that just dont want to deal with other players. Which is basically them admitting that they would rather the game be single player.

daveywavey

I'm quite happy for people to play how they want to. But, dungeons and bosses shouldn't ever be solo-able. I'm pretty sure Ashes isn't going to have that happen.

akabear

Dolyem wrote: »

A Massively Multiplayer Online game should never cater to the individual. Always to the group and community. This guy needs to go back to god of war and other single player games if he wants himself to be the focus of the games design.

I read this as an absolute, and if that was the intention then disagree.

Yes, a MMORPG should first and foremost orientate towards a large portion of content for groups and community, but regardless there must still be content for the individual.

Whilst it is enjoyable to play with others there are times were it is equally enjoyable to play in the context of others without necessarily participating actively and sometimes is outright enjoyable to have something to do solo, be that for own agenda, time out of wars, of just simple time out.

daveywavey

akabear wrote: »

Whilst it is enjoyable to play with others there are times were it is equally enjoyable to play in the context of others without necessarily participating actively and sometimes is outright enjoyable to have something to do solo, be that for own agenda, time out of wars, of just simple time out.

It'd suck to log on and find that none of your guildies are online, so you just have to sit there waiting and hoping that someone will log in so that you can play! hahaha

Noaani

Dolyem wrote: »

A Massively Multiplayer Online game should never cater to the individual. Always to the group and community. This guy needs to go back to god of war and other single player games if he wants himself to be the focus of the games design.

While I do agree with you, it can also be said that an Elder Scrolls game is a solo game, and players should be able to play it solo. No other Elder Scrolls game has required you to group up to complete anything - why should this Elder Scrolls game?

Taking an Elder Scrolls game and making it an MMO does not mean it is no longer an Elder Scrolls game.

I'm not saying I agree with the person we are talking about here, but I do fully understand that it does down to perspective.

If you look at ESO as an MMO first and foremost, then yeah, Massively Multiplayer and all that.

On the other hand, if you look at ESO first and foremost as an Elder Scrolls game (which you simply can not deny it is), then the above position has some validity to it.

My opinion on the matter is that there should have been a game to ease the player base in to the MMO genre (much as Warcraft 3 was for WoW - it introduced RTS players to a lot of roleplay and character elements).

They should have created a multiplayer option as a DLC for Skyrim, then Elder Scrolls players would be more used to the idea of grouping up with others, as it would be a feature of the franchise before ESO released.

Vhaeyne

@Noaani

Numerous MMOs come from single player only experiences, and they never needed DLC to get players more used to the idea of multiplayer content.

I grew up playing Final Fantasy and Phantasy Star and was eager to never play a single player version of those games again once they went MMO.

I am not saying it would not have helped, but I don't think they "should" have had multiplayer DLC for skyrim just for the sake of getting people who are so beta they can only talk to NPCs used to the idea that other humans exist.

Noaani

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Numerous MMOs come from single player only experiences, and they never needed DLC to get players more used to the idea of multiplayer content.

Yeah, but none of them tried to basically make a multiplayer version of their single player game. FFXI and FFXIV play nothing at all like FFVII (the only one I had any exposure to).

It also helps that with all FF games, players go in to each of them as if they are a new game, because very little carries on between them.

ESO literally has NPCs that were present in other Elder Scrolls games. It has a combat system that tried to emulate the single player combat. It attempted to continue the story of the single player games. It marketed itself to the players of the single player games.

If Blizzard are smart enough to easy their player base in to the MMORPG genre, Bethesda should have been as well.

It isn't about "beta" or any crap like that. It is about the way people have played Elder Scrolls games for decades. All of a sudden, with literally no warning, there is a total about face on how to play this Elder Scrolls game.

People that play MMO's get what is going on. People that play Elder Scrolls games do not. ESO has both types, and courted both types.

Vhaeyne

@Noaani

I guess that is true.

I forget that ESO happens in the same cannon as the single player games.

Of which I have played them all and don't have a clue what the story is other than sometimes the daedra are cocks. If you rob people, the towns guards are cocks.

daveywavey

Vhaeyne wrote: »

If you rob people, the towns guards are cocks.

And, in Skyrim, if your Pickpocketing perks are high enough, you can rob the guards, and they'll be naked! So, I'm told. From a friend of a friend, or something...

mfckingjoker

Please ashes do us the favor and don't cater for individuals who want all sorts of things in mmos. Well I'm pretty sure they won't but just saying.

maouw

I don't think we can talk about this in absolutes.

Apparently ye MMO's of olde didn't even have solo grinding? Yet it's become a staple of every MMO of the past decade (or two?). So where would you draw the line between
> things to do on your own?
> things to do as a group?

Sathrago

The goal, at least in my mind, of an MMORPG is to recreate a world where multiple people interact in a sort of "alternate" reality. So it will and should normally be designed with players "living" in it. This means there will be things you can do solo and things you need groups for to put it simply. It is fine to have solo content as long as we approach this with a "realistic" tone. Meaning that Dorfus the 1-legged 200 year old dwarf rogue can't go off and fight the big bad Dragon God of the 7 Suns by his self. This does not mean that old Dorfus can't go around stealing all sorts of crap from npcs while playing solo. It just means that there is only so much a single player should be able to do. This makes sure that the weight of difficulty is still relevant within the game's logic.

Why would anyone care if you went and soloed a boss if it was designed to be beaten by a solo player? The whole fun of solo-clearing dungeons, quests, rares, etc. is the fact that you are able to use your skill and creativity to do something that the game did not intend you to do. At the end of the day all forms of content are designed with the intent that the player/players will defeat the challenge.

Now if you are a player that just wants to experience all of the content without the hassle of other players, here is my advice. Get Good, Get Friends, or Go watch a playthrough series.

Percimes

Perspective and observations from self-proclaimed soloer.

To be successful in solo play you need to master a few skills. First, controlling the number of opponents you face at the same time. Usually it means knowing how to pull and break camp spawn cycles so you face only the desired numbers at a time. Pulling to a safe spot, kitting, one at a time or in AoE, it varies by class and tool sets. Second, knowing when it's time to flee. So reading the flow of battle and being aware of your surrounding (respawn, patrols or other players). So what you need is space and an easy way out. Dungeons make both harder.

Dungeons have changed over the years.

The biggest change is that, before WoW, dungeons were usually not instanced. So, even in groups, you couldn't really do a complete dungeon run, at least not in the popular ones, because there were people camping in every rooms. In prime time you could more or less walk anywhere in camped places. Much riskier in unpopular dark holes or at some hours, but still... An instanced dungeon is always fully populated when you first enter it.

Another change is that monsters in dungeons were of comparable strength as those outside (when of equal level), except bosses of course. WoW brought or popularized the concept of elite mobs, designed for group encounters. Instanced dungeons with elite mobs catered to groups, full groups. Trinitized groups. Being the good theme park that it was, each dungeons could be a tailored ride. No safety bar on your cart, so you could fail, but if everyone stayed on the tracks you'd have a good time. Over-leveling can reduce the requirements.

So, it was always possible to solo to some extent in dungeons. I can't say how easy or hard it will be in AoC, it will depends on how aggro works, how cramped are the corridors, and the relative strength of mobs vs outside for their level. Having open dungeons means you'll never really have the dungeons for group. It also makes it quite impossible to "save" your progress (and there was much rejoicing!) Being PvP means sometimes you'll face opponents far more dangerous than the mobs. There are also good sides of being partly solo-friendly: when it allows your reser to survive or when you want to join a group already deep inside.

George_Black

No matter what, people cant make demands for such content to be soloable

CROW3

George Black wrote: »

No matter what, people cant make demands for such content to be soloable

Well, clearly they can. What I hope is that IS prioritizes features for group content based on what will work best and challenge groups. I’m for some solo content in an MMO, but mostly for open world stuff, not dungeons or raids.

Again, I think it’s perfectly reasonable for players to spend time by themselves not in a group. I don’t think it’s reasonable for those players to expect all content in the game to be accessible for solo play.

waikikamukau

George Black wrote: »

No matter what, people cant make demands for such content to be soloable

People can and will make all kinds of demands. Just like you.

Boil everything down and it is simple: games are a function of profitability now. Regardless of how pure they might begin, they will start to adapt to their environment. If marketing people suggest that making soloable content will increase the viability of the product...yes, it will be done...unless the executives are satisfied with their current level of profitability in which case you will have a niche game catering to a niche crowd and make meager to modest profits. Assuming, of course, that they can keep their overhead low enough and maintain enough for the fanboys.

In my opinion, there should be a modicum of soloable content in any MMO. Something that people can logon for an hour or so and accomplish something without having to burn 30-45 minutes getting a suitable group together. Should everything be soloable? No. Should the most difficult content require a group or multiple groups? Absolutely.

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