Seasons being 1 week just doesn't sit right with me.

For several reasons, it just seems way too short. 1 month = 2 days 8 hours assuming 12 months in a Verran year. 13 Verran years in an earth year.

It's not the numbers by themselves though. If the seasons change every week, there is no anticipation build-up. There is no "I look forward to winter!" Blink and you miss it. There isn't enough time to enjoy it and have it feel special. I would argue that the quick change of seasons makes them feel common, boring and less impactful from an aesthetic point of view.

I understand they are going to change the world based on the seasons in many ways. Again, 1 week seems too short. When looking at the economical aspects of it, 1 week is not enough to produce a real scarcity of goods, should that be the goal. Players can absolutely wait one week to get an item in most cases, if they even have to. There is obviously a difference between a system where an item is removed for that season, but present in the other 3 seasons, and a system where the item is only present during a certain season and absent the other 3. Maybe it's going to be a mix of those two systems, but either way, we're back to "blink and you miss it" mechanics.

From an ingame economy standpoint, if you really want seasons to matter and impact the world economy, they need to be longer than a week. Guilds/nodes should have to really plan for this, and organize around this scarcity/abundance of seasonal goods, if the intent is to have it really matter at all. Obviously, the longer the seasons the more pronounced this will be, and I understand it's subject to change during testing, but I really feel one week is too short to even consider.

I would argue to make seasons 1 calendar month long and start testing from there. Three Verran years per earth year. Making people long even a little for seasonal change is a good thing. It's healthier for the game as a whole.

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Vhaeyne

@Nerror

I'll meet you halfway at two weeks.

That way, the items that are season locked in the economy don't get too crazy. We don't know too much about it, but that's my main concern.

Otherwise, I agree. I would like to watch the seasons change over time.

Nerror

Vhaeyne wrote: »

@Nerror

I'll meet you halfway at two weeks.

That way, the items that are season locked in the economy don't get too crazy. We don't know too much about it, but that's my main concern.

Otherwise, I agree. I would like to watch the seasons change over time.

Yeah there are lot of unknowns still, but, as I understand the interviews and the wiki, it's not the entire world that is affected the same way. Snowy areas will still be snowy, and aside from magical seasons, the tropics will still be tropical. I am guessing that those seasons might not remove certain goods entirely from the game, but they may change where people can get them, creating new trade routes and shifting power dynamics. Things like that take time to feel the effect of, and I think 1 week is too short for sure. Maybe 2 weeks would work, but I still think it's a bit short

JustVine

I also don't like it from a farming standpoint. Many staple crops take like 3-4 months to fully come to harvest this would mean your actual work farming is like 3-4 actions for 100% yield in most systems. That's pretty low commitment and your already safe from attacks in freehold. So they either make it annoyingly spammy or cost other resources which is ok I guess, but over all there's less wiggle room for good enjoyable design. 2 weeks gets it to a better spot in my opinion.

CROW3

Well, the calendar seasons are entirely arbitrary anyway…so 3 months v. a week in a game - it’s all the same.

Sylvanar

In my opinion the seasons should be a month long. Why?
- That way there would be 3 whole rotations in a year, which is not that low of a number.
- Give ample time for less active players to farm up stuff. At least as per their needs if not for trade.
- As seasonal goods wont be available for 3 whole months after the season for an item ends, it will have visible impact on the economy as players simply cannot wait 3 months for something to be cheap or available again.
- The above mentioned possibility of affecting economy and being able to participate in 'guaranteed' trade will increase trade related PvP compared to having a 1 or 2 week long seasons.
- As the seasons would be longer players will get settled and then the change will feel more pronounced. Shorter periods might lead to making them feel cosmetic.

These are just my thoughts.

Vhaeyne

CROW3 wrote: »

Well, the calendar seasons are entirely arbitrary anyway…so 3 months v. a week in a game - it’s all the same.

It's not arbitrary at all. Steven chose one week. Just like, he picked two variants of each original race or the idea that armor appearance will change depending on what race is wearing it. These are all choices, some with more lasting consequences than others. Some things like how long a season lasts might be easier to tune or fix than the family summoning system, for example. Nothing is really arbitrary with Ashes. It is all choices made by Steven and Intrepid.

Seasons are more than just weather effects in Ashes. It's a pretty big deal to get the balance right. It could mean the difference between players living in a cycle where they have to stockpile consumables for the winter. You could lose a caravan full of mats and be SOL for weeks before you get a chance to even try and correct the mistake.

Luthienstorm

I look at it this way. If you make a mistake in a season it could cost you a whole month, before you have another shot. or at least 3 weeks. Are you willing to turn that one mistake into a six week mistake? I like the idea of two week seasons, but when I think of mistakes...I'm worried it might turn people off. You're suggesting one month, so there might be an objective that your guild failed to achieve and you want to make them wait 3 months to try again?

Vhaeyne

Luthienstorm wrote: »

I look at it this way. If you make a mistake in a season it could cost you a whole month, before you have another shot. or at least 3 weeks. Are you willing to turn that one mistake into a six week mistake? I like the idea of two week seasons, but when I think of mistakes...I'm worried it might turn people off. You're suggesting one month, so there might be an objective that your guild failed to achieve and you want to make them wait 3 months to try again?

Yeah, that is why I keep thinking two weeks feels more appropriate. It gives you two weeks to do everything you need to do in season.

Everything you said is right. Month long seasons may feel too harsh. With the long waits between seasons.

@Nerror is right, too. One week seems far too short.

CROW3

Kinda nice to have a sub fee that’s only $15 a year though. 🤪

Gizban

Sylvanar wrote: »

In my opinion the seasons should be a month long. Why?
- That way there would be 3 whole rotations in a year, which is not that low of a number.
- Give ample time for less active players to farm up stuff. At least as per their needs if not for trade.
- As seasonal goods wont be available for 3 whole months after the season for an item ends, it will have visible impact on the economy as players simply cannot wait 3 months for something to be cheap or available again.
- The above mentioned possibility of affecting economy and being able to participate in 'guaranteed' trade will increase trade related PvP compared to having a 1 or 2 week long seasons.
- As the seasons would be longer players will get settled and then the change will feel more pronounced. Shorter periods might lead to making them feel cosmetic.

These are just my thoughts.

I'm in Sylvanar's camp on this one. One and two weeks feels too short for seasons.

Syl lists good reasons but I'll also echo what another player mentioned, that being player crops (however that works). One week from planting to harvest is silly.
Either its a valuable crop that represents the time and effort that went into it, or its cheap because its quick and easy. Quick and easy don't lead to lasting engagement.

I also feel a short duration to facilitate 'not penalizing' a player is a poor reason. This isn't Farmville. Mechanics shouldn't be molded by a 'avoid consequences' mentality. Thats how shallow and forgettable features get made.

Seasons should be more for world building, and less about season-exclusive drops.

Vhaeyne

CROW3 wrote: »

Kinda nice to have a sub fee that’s only $15 a year though. 🤪

I get your meaning, but Ideally the game would be so good we would not care to unsub. Being able to experience the whole game in one month should not be something you want to do with an MMORPG. IMO

When an MMO player has a good game that keeps them going for months to years, they save so much money compared to the average gamer. I have so many friends that live from AAA game to AAA game, spending 60-120 a month on two games and only getting like 4-5 days out of each of them... While most months I spend 15$ on and get 30 days of play... Unless you are hopping from MMO launch to MMO launch, shelling out box prices every time. MMORPGs normally are expected to last longer than a month per release.

Sylvanar

Luthienstorm wrote: »

I look at it this way. If you make a mistake in a season it could cost you a whole month, before you have another shot.

Look at this way then, if the seasons are only a week long, everyone will be in a rush to get everything done else they would have to wait for 3 weeks but with month long seasons players will have ample time to properly plan and execute whatever they want to achieve in that season. They can even do multiple attempts for the same after correcting their mistakes or making some in game progress with that goal in mind.

pyreal wrote: »

I also feel a short duration to facilitate 'not penalizing' a player is a poor reason. This isn't Farmville. Mechanics shouldn't be molded by a 'avoid consequences' mentality. Thats how shallow and forgettable features get made.

Exactly. I really wish people understood MMO is more a different life than a game which will give instant gratification.

akabear

Just to put something different into to mix.

(Shift work during L2 days, one boss on a 1 month cycle was not able to be attempted for 5 months, if only there was some variance in cycle)

Perhaps the seasons do not follow a strict 1 week cycle but perhaps follow a broader schedule of incrementally different lengths over a much larger cycle

1st - 6 days x4 / 24 days
2nd - 8 days x 4
3rd - 12 days x 4
4th - 8 days x 4 then cycle repeats

Mix it up for variety, allow those who have real life schedules to have opportunty.

Vhaeyne

akabear wrote: »

Just to put something different into to mix.

(Shift work during L2 days, one boss on a 1 month cycle was not able to be attempted for 5 months, if only there was some variance in cycle)

Perhaps the seasons do not follow a strict 1 week cycle but perhaps follow a broader schedule of incrementally different lengths over a much larger cycle

1st - 6 days x4 / 24 days
2nd - 8 days x 4
3rd - 12 days x 4
4th - 8 days x 4 then cycle repeats

Mix it up for variety, allow those who have real life schedules to have opportunty.

I like the idea of it fluctuating. What if it was like a baseline of 5 days per season with a random 1-6 days added every time. Like we never know for sure if we are going to get a 6 or 12 day season or anything in between.

Like Verra just has an unpredictable orbit around its star or something.

Enigmatic Sage

Need more info on crop types and grow lengths in relation to seasons and biomes.

Realistically, some crops you plant in the spring, some in the fall. Regardless, you could be waiting a 2-3 weeks IRL for your harvest depending on biome and crop if they're going that route. Some crops could have continuous blooms for herbalism/alchemy etc while other have a single harvest. Lot's to think about in relation to.

Jhoren

My guess is seasonal resources won't be implemented in such a way that outside of a season you can't get a certain thing. For example, during the winter season, the otherwise rare Snowflower becomes more common and can be found everywhere with snow. Outside the winter season, you can still find it in the snowy regions.

Some rivers will freeze during the winter season, which might stop fishing in those rivers. However, you can still fish in the tropical areas and in the ocean. Some of the fish species might migrate down from the wintery areas to the tropics during that season.

It could affect crops on player-farms differently depending on biome. In the tropics, you can get the same crops year round perhaps. In the temperate zones you might have to plant seasonal crops, including some winter crops you can't get in the tropics. Those winter crops can be farmed all year in the snowy mountains though.

We don't know obviously, but to me it makes sense that seasonal resources aren't wholly gone at any given time, but that you might have to travel to different biomes/nodes to get them. This keeps the game fresh for the traders and artisans too, and dynamically affects guild and server politics in a good way IMO.

I think no resource should ever disappear from the server completely, except perhaps for resources that only appear during certain special events.

Edit: Oh, and I also think 1 week per season is way too short.

Happymeal2415

I also thought a week per season is too short. I felt a month would have been better because it then breaks up everything into 3rds. 3 in game years per actual year would allow for the content releases or potential arena seasons to each last an in game year. 8 hours for a night day cycle seems nice too

McMackMuck

Fantastic discussion! @Nerror 1 week per season is way too short, the changes would feel gimmicky.

If I 'no-lifed' the game then 2 weeks might be okay, but I think I'd prefer longer.
If I was more casual, playing once per RL week then 4 weeks per season would give me chance to get a feel for the flow of time on Verra.

I like the consequence of screwing up my wilderness gathering or freehold crop cycle and having to wait (whilst finding other worthwhile activities appropriate to the current season). That would push prices up in the market and give a reason for people to run caravans around the world or encourage the practice of stockpiling resources in a node making them worth sieging.

Maybe quests could impact on the duration of individual seasons, affecting what grows and how long for.

Four weeks per season works best for me.

Nerror

McMackMuck wrote: »

... or encourage the practice of stockpiling resources in a node making them worth sieging.

Ooh I didn't think of that! Great point! Let the resource wars begin.

Nerror

I kinda fear the farming aspects will be a little farmville-like. As in, crops mature in a day and you can harvest and plant using the phone app. Maybe that's why they think short seasons are fine. I dunno. I hope that's not what we're getting.

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