Dungeons and Raids

Hello! Last time I followed the game a long time ago it was announced that dungeons and raids for the most part are going to be open minus a small few amount of instanced ones and immediately lost all interest in the game. Is this still the plan? If not then SWEET it is time to catch up on all news I missed for the last while!

If it is then that really sucks and obviously people who like this system need an mmorpg that supports this but like... why? Like can someone do me a favor and give like a non-troll reason why this is a good thing in your eyes? Because at the moment I just cannot wrap my head around wanting another guild to swoop in while you are mid raid to kill you and take the boss kill. The rest of the game sounds amazing but this is a MAJOR core element to any MMORPG so obviously if I view it in a negative light I mean might as well not even care about the game at all. lol.

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Boanergese

It's a 60/40 split for bosses. It's the idea of immersion that they have open world. The way a boss works right now is that if you tag the boss you have to do 40% damage to the boss to earn loot rights. So, a guild would have to kill your raid team and then do 60% of the boss's health to get loot rights. Some people have suggested putting up a magical barrier around the boss once the boss loses so much so that new parties can't enter the fight and then let the two groups fight it out. Remember, this is an alpha. Nothing is in stone.

Games like World of Warcraft don't really create a sense of community. Yes, you are the hero, but you really aren't the hero. You and 10 million other Frodo's are all carrying the ring to Mount Doom. The world bosses might be part of the castle siege system that give a group a buff. They might also drop rare crafting materials. This is a pvp game, it's not solely a care bear game. Like Eve Online there is going to be conquest and people vying for territory. One option is for your guild to form an alliance another guild and have them guard the area for you to keep a third party from interfering with the open world boss kill. Besides open world bosses the game has not discussed dungeons and raids. Your cities can be damaged and destroyed. With risk of losing something it creates a need to protect the item. You are motivated to participate in pvp to protect your city or castle lest your apartment is destroyed.

Samson1

Taken from the AoC wiki: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Dungeons

Dungeons in Ashes of Creation will range in size and will be mostly open-world.[4][5]

Open world dungeons will be populated to facilitate multiple groups within the dungeon.[6]
80% of dungeons will be open world.[7][8]
Instanced dungeons will also be present and will cater for solo and group questlines.[6]
20% of dungeons will be instanced.[7][8]
There are going to be smaller, simpler, linear dungeons. There's going to be bigger, more complex, nonlinear dungeons. So, It's a little bit of both. We want the environment to be a character. In order for the environment to be a character, these places need to be interesting and there needs to be a dynamicism to them.[4] – Jeffrey Bard

Half the problem won't just be solving the dungeon, it will be solving other players too.[6] – Jeffrey Bard

Dungeon difficulty will increase the further a player ventures into the dungeon.[9]

Mobs and mob mechanics will become more difficult.[9]
Terrain and environmental dangers will increase.[9]
Deeper darker types of interactions will be found deeper in the dungeon.[9] – Steven Sharif

There are approximately 6 or 7 dungeons in Alpha-1.[10]

One will almost be raid-level difficulty.[10]

My quick response:

Ashes of Creation relies highly around PvP interactions... so Steven wants most of the dungeons to be open world as this allows for unique and spontaneous interactions between guilds, parties and individual players. If all dungeons were instanced, it would alter the dynamic of the game drastically and, in turn, affect the many systems in the game (probably to their detriment).

Although I am also a big fan of instanced dungeons, I do understand why Intrepid is choosing to go in this particular direction with the game.

Podgnil

I have a lot of questions to open world dungeons, yep its souns good but.
What about respown? if servers will be near 10-15 thsnds people? if it be long few peoples will close it. If it will be fast some guild will controll dungeons, and farm it while they take all they need.

CROW3

“ Half the problem won't just be solving the dungeon, it will be solving other players too.[6]”
– Jeffrey Bard

This is what I was going to reference. Raids is Ashes will have to take into account arriving safely, raid content itself, guarding the raid during the fights, and protecting the raid on the way back. This opens up a number of opportunities for guilds to go head to head with some risk of losing a % of loot. Again emphasizing risk and reward.

Talents

Yes, it's still planned to be that way.

Instanced content ruins MMOs because then people are no longer in the open-world and are instead separating themselves into 20 man groups that cannot be interacted with by other players. Instanced dungeons/raids should never give gear or materials, only cosmetics/achievements/titles at most.

Steven constantly talks about some of his favourite times in MMOs being Lineage 2 where him and his guild took control of an open-world dungeon raid or tried to contest another group who was controlling a dungeon/raid. He wants to bring that feeling back.

Dracuhl

Boanergese wrote: »

It's a 60/40 split for bosses. It's the idea of immersion that they have open world. The way a boss works right now is that if you tag the boss you have to do 40% damage to the boss to earn loot rights. So, a guild would have to kill your raid team and then do 60% of the boss's health to get loot rights. Some people have suggested putting up a magical barrier around the boss once the boss loses so much so that new parties can't enter the fight and then let the two groups fight it out. Remember, this is an alpha. Nothing is in stone.

Thanks very much for the first paragraph you wrote! I didnt know that and I really think that 40% definitely helps move it from an absolute terrible idea to okay at best.

Your 2nd paragraph I couldnt really tell if you are being a troll or you honestly dont know the difference between a sandbox game and a theme park game. Ill assume the non-aggressive option and try to explain that bit but first lets try to get the incorrect things out your statement first. Games like WoW and FFXIV and GW2 and SWTOR and ESO are theme park games. You got the whole LoTR analogy down. Im really confused on how you dont think that they dont build a sense of community. Like that isnt even an opinion to have. It is literally just wrong. A sense of community is on an individual level based on the effort they place in finding one.

If you cant find a community in any MMO either the game is severely unpopulated (number of people definitely matter), based on a demographic completely separate from you (say you are playing on an asian or spanish speaking server but only speak english. Yea itll feel pretty empty), or you literally are not putting fourth any effort. If you meant it doesnt provide the tools to sort of foster a sense of community you are still completely wrong but at least you are kind of on track.

Games like this, or New World, or Eve, or ARK, or Conan are sandbox games. Different subgenre under the MMORPG genre where instead of having a Mount Doom pointed to the community has to sort of make a Mount Doom.

You go on some weird Care Bear flex and thats just weird.lol. That is more of an individual trait rather than a blanket statement for a community. There are plenty of care bears in the sandbox fan community as well. Ive seen it. lol.

Anyways rant over thanks for helping clear up to me how dungeons and raids will work in this game and hopefully I was able to clear up the difference between the 2 main subgenres under the MMORPG umbrella for you. Happy Holidays and if they put in that magic barrier idea maybe we will kill eachother one day!

Dracuhl

Talents wrote: »

Yes, it's still planned to be that way.

Instanced content ruins MMOs because then people are no longer in the open-world and are instead separating themselves into 20 man groups that cannot be interacted with by other players. Instanced dungeons/raids should never give gear or materials, only cosmetics/achievements/titles at most.

Steven constantly talks about some of his favourite times in MMOs being Lineage 2 where him and his guild took control of an open-world dungeon raid or tried to contest another group who was controlling a dungeon/raid. He wants to bring that feeling back.

Ruins mmos? Ah yes like the monumental failures such as WoW which held number one MMORPG for you know a few years or something, FFXIV which literally had to stop selling its game and remove its demo because its servers couldnt handle the massive incoming population, ESO, GW2, and SWTOR.

Alright brother so Im going to let you in on some secret knowledge. There are people who make games and there are people who play games. Me and you play games. Look at the opinion you posted that you attempted to pass as facts for the reason why you play games and have no say in making them. And if Im wrong and you do make them then dear god I dont wanna see it. lol.

But I do appreciate your first sentence and third sentence as it was informative so thank you for that! But when people ask for an opinion, especially a non troll one, dont use wording that attempts to pass it off as facts as you did in your 2nd sentence.

Talents

Dracuhl wrote: »

Talents wrote: »

Yes, it's still planned to be that way.

Instanced content ruins MMOs because then people are no longer in the open-world and are instead separating themselves into 20 man groups that cannot be interacted with by other players. Instanced dungeons/raids should never give gear or materials, only cosmetics/achievements/titles at most.

Steven constantly talks about some of his favourite times in MMOs being Lineage 2 where him and his guild took control of an open-world dungeon raid or tried to contest another group who was controlling a dungeon/raid. He wants to bring that feeling back.

Ruins mmos? Ah yes like the monumental failures such as WoW which held number one MMORPG for you know a few years or something, FFXIV which literally had to stop selling its game and remove its demo because its servers couldnt handle the massive incoming population, ESO, GW2, and SWTOR.

Alright brother so Im going to let you in on some secret knowledge. There are people who make games and there are people who play games. Me and you play games. Look at the opinion you posted that you attempted to pass as facts for the reason why you play games and have no say in making them. And if Im wrong and you do make them then dear god I dont wanna see it. lol.

But I do appreciate your first sentence and third sentence as it was informative so thank you for that! But when people ask for an opinion, especially a non troll one, dont use wording that attempts to pass it off as facts as you did in your 2nd sentence.

I don't class WoW or FF14 as proper MMOs, never have, never will. When you make the majority of your end-game content instanced it's no longer an MMO. If you call WoW/FF14 an MMO then you might as well call games like PSO2 or Destiny 2 an MMO. They're all good games, but none of them are good MMOs.

Taleof2Cities

Dracuhl wrote: »

Alright brother so Im going to let you in on some secret knowledge. There are people who make games and there are people who play games. Me and you play games. Look at the opinion you posted that you attempted to pass as facts for the reason why you play games and have no say in making them. And if Im wrong and you do make them then dear god I dont wanna see it. lol.

The wiki is plain in it's meaning, @Dracuhl ... there's zero room for other interpretations since the quotes are directly from Steven.

In other words, as much as you'd like to think otherwise, instanced raiding isn't going to be the focus of Ashes.

The sooner you absorb @Talents comments and do some critical thinking on your part, the sooner you'll be able to decide whether Ashes is the right game for you.

Flowy1

im gonna love open raids. the only thing im scared of is.
that there is going to be 1 massive strong guild everybody joins. and the server becomes 1sided.

i played an old mmo 2.5D p2w its litterly garbage. but the problem in that game was that once a side won events wich also means better rewards for every guild member. people dont wanna join the losing guilds because the losing guild gets shitty or less good rewards than the winning one.

i know people will have to talk to other guilds and alliance to beat the bigger guild. but usually nobody does that. and join the winning side because its easy.

anybody any opinions on how to counter that ?

George_Black

Did you just say people need an mmo that supports instanced dungeon?
Are you ************((*(**?
There are tons that support it. Havent you found one until now?

George_Black

Ill give you the reason.

Because you are wrong, instancing isnt a core feature. Mmos used to be open world. That's the CORE of this game. Why change it and make it like the rest of crappy mmos like ff14 wow and eso?

George_Black

I wish moderators would create a section in this forum and move in there all the accounts that were created 5 mins ago, claiming to have followed the development since 1990, and then post "why isnt this game abandoning its core design and just copy wow"
The section could be named "troll posts" and having them moved there they would be ignored, and your obvious intentional content to antagonise would be ignored.

Okeydoke

I'm just here to lol hahah

Gaul_

Dracuhl wrote: »

Games like this, or New World, or Eve, or ARK, or Conan are sandbox games. Different subgenre under the MMORPG genre where instead of having a Mount Doom pointed to the community has to sort of make a Mount Doom.

One quick side note that should make Ashes different from other sandbox games is that it is supposed to be a sandbox with content. Quests, raids, dungeons, horizontal progression, arenas, you name it. Other MMO games use the "sandbox" qualifier as an excuse to not develop content for the world and sort of just leave the players to create their own content. Intrepid Studios has said they are planning on creating an enormous amount of content for Ashes so we won't just be left to our own devices.

raylegh

There is no point in doing a mmorpg if you only wanna play instanced content with a few people. Play Wow instead.

Samson1

raylegh wrote: »

There is no point in doing a mmorpg if you only wanna play instanced content with a few people. Play Wow instead.

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