New race designs - thoughts? Likes and Dislikes?

Hi all, i thought post video it might be nice to get some feedback that we can pass back to intrepid and get your overall thoughts.

General

I found the details significantly improved overall especially in the face across all races.

I know a talking point from a1 footage was that the characters didnt feel like they fit into the world. I hope intrepid can succeed with this balance.

Dwarves dunir

Very happy with the models overall. The beards and hair looked good, happy with the body structure the male behinds looked a bit flat for stout stocky boys but perhaps its adjustable!

Females again the dimensions and quality looked good. I am happy for dunir females to have beard options though i have never seen it in games if it fits the lore then i am all for it though i would prefer it to be optional personally.

Dwarves Nikua

The body itself i actually would expect them to be leaner and less stocky than Dunir so that would make these appropriate. I will reserve judgement until we see some with hair and armour i see them as being more methodical and technology driven from what we know though they definitely feel gnome/halfling like which definitely had appeal in WoW.

Human Kaelar model update

It was simple compared to the other races but again with the face and body updates i feel i very much like the improved looks.

Ren'kai Orcs

They definitely feel strong and intimidating. Large body and limbs, i wonder if they should have more body fat or a larger head but i am still happy with it. Its hard to judge given there will be a level of variation we can apply.

Vek orcs

Love the design. It does feel to me like a merge of trolls and the movie avatars. The larger eyed vek could have the eyes relaxed a bit or perhaps it could be of appeal to some? I can see that being fine for certain expressions i.e. shock but as a whole the vek design is great and has its character.

I have been overall positive as honestly i don't have a ton of criticisms and how they make the animations feel natural and fluid in the world will be essential.

Please include your own opinions, criticisms and anything related!

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Comments

Nerror

I pretty much agree with the assessment except for one thing perhaps. The female Dünir aren't good looking. They are friggin' sexy. Hubbah hubbah

They had beard options in A1 as well btw, but no body hair options.

I wouldn't mind seeing the option to make the Dünir women slightly bulkier though.

The Vek are super awesome. I am almost tempted to not play Dünir as main after seeing them, but my first alt will be Vek for sure. Unless the Tulnar are equally amazing....

Need to see more of the Niküa yeah, and now that you mention it, I would like to see a model of a Ren'kai with a slightly larger head for comparison.

The Kaelar was just a boring human to me, but for what it was, it looked good.

Sevarielone

I was really happy with the designs that were shown today - I’m a big fan of the diversity across the races (especially the Vek and halflings) - I hope to see sliders for color options and a wide range of options on the blue spectrum. The glowing orange spectrum for eyes were cool but I need that in blue to feel satisfied.. golden tones for the skin and eyes would be cool.. can’t wait to see what kind of paint/tattoo options they get.

I saw that some of the feedback in chat concerned head size or proportions on thighs, etc.. sliders all day. (Within reason) head and thing/calf size is a big one for me too.. it’s very nice to be able to tune these things within what is considered realistic for a race without costing it’s identity.

Two things made me nervous — Steven’s focus on vek being slouchy/contorted out of combat, idle pose. I think we should be able to choose if we want really slouchy / bent posture or if we want to straighten up. Characters with weird posture are great for diversity but it kinda ruins it if everyone has the same screwy posture. Take undead and blood elves in WoW. Cool race concepts but their twisted/exaggerated posture actually ruins some armor sets and causes clipping /distortion of textures. Gotta play a human just to appreciate armor as it was drawn.

On this note, they mentioned being able to choose posture/running animation and such at CHARACTER CREATION.. please let us change this later either via /cpose on final fantasy, where you can freely/regularly toggle your idle stand/sit/lay etc through all of the options available to your race/sex — choosing a permanent animation kit at character creation is too much pressure… like voices that sound great in creation previews but ruin your experience once you hear them in combat.

ESO has “personalities” that can be earned vi quests and purchased via micro transaction that you can apply and change at will, these affect idle/emotes/sit etc.. just please consider alternatives to locking us into one animation series from creation forward.

Also, please don’t be afraid to let male models wear jewelry or flowy pretty things or simply lock females into skirts and tight tops. ladies like loose fitting cloaks as much as some boys like painted nails and veils. If ashes is meant to promote expression and freedom, don’t gender lock every outfit and pidgeonhole the sexes into old fashioned tropes - let us choose

Love the option for female dwarves to have beards and body hair. Would be great to see body hair pattern options for anyone who can toggle it on.

DougBug27

Some thoughts from my perspective:

1. The Dunir looked excellent, especially in the tier 5 armor. Definitely a vast improvement over the previous version from A1. Female could still look a little more rugged, but overall, well done.

2. The Ren'Kai looked like your typical brutish Orc. I don't mind this as it fits the typical sterotype, but it does seem a bit more extreme than previous concept art. It's hard for me to imagine a Rogue Renkai or a Mage with the current design, but I'm sure we will see plenty.

3. I think the Nikua need a lot of work. At this point it appears they will be the least selected race, and IMO intrepid needs to pivot HARD to the "These are Seafaring Halflings" concept. Make them have extended bellies, pirateish builds, and give them the hairiest and hairy feet. Have them smoking pipes and shit. I don't care, but they need to move to an extreme so they don't look like the "Lesser Dwarves" as they do right now.

4. I thought the Vek concept was really cool. As others have said, it reminded me of a mix between the Troll WoW race and the avatar toons. My only concern is that they don't go too far into the "troll" WoW territory. Steven mentioned the natural gate and stance of the Vek and all I could think of was the hunched stance of Trolls in WoW. Again, unique is key.

5. Humans looked fine. They are boring humans after all.

6. Lastly, I am curious to see if Intrepid plans to make the difference between the Py'rai Elves and Empyeran Elves as drastic as the Vek and Renkai and the Dunir and the Nikua. I hope so. Differentiation and race identity are a huge part of mmorpgs imo.

DougBug27

Sevariel wrote: »

I was really happy with the designs that were shown today - I’m a big fan of the diversity across the races (especially the Vek and halflings) - I hope to see sliders for color options and a wide range of options on the blue spectrum. The glowing orange spectrum for eyes were cool but I need that in blue to feel satisfied.. golden tones for the skin and eyes would be cool.. can’t wait to see what kind of paint/tattoo options they get.

I saw that some of the feedback in chat concerned head size or proportions on thighs, etc.. sliders all day. (Within reason) head and thing/calf size is a big one for me too.. it’s very nice to be able to tune these things within what is considered realistic for a race without costing it’s identity.

Two things made me nervous — Steven’s focus on vek being slouchy/contorted out of combat, idle pose. I think we should be able to choose if we want really slouchy / bent posture or if we want to straighten up. Characters with weird posture are great for diversity but it kinda ruins it if everyone has the same screwy posture. Take undead and blood elves in WoW. Cool race concepts but their twisted/exaggerated posture actually ruins some armor sets and causes clipping /distortion of textures. Gotta play a human just to appreciate armor as it was drawn.

On this note, they mentioned being able to choose posture/running animation and such at CHARACTER CREATION.. please let us change this later either via /cpose on final fantasy, where you can freely/regularly toggle your idle stand/sit/lay etc through all of the options available to your race/sex — choosing a permanent animation kit at character creation is too much pressure… like voices that sound great in creation previews but ruin your experience once you hear them in combat.

ESO has “personalities” that can be earned vi quests and purchased via micro transaction that you can apply and change at will, these affect idle/emotes/sit etc.. just please consider alternatives to locking us into one animation series from creation forward.

Also, please don’t be afraid to let male models wear jewelry or flowy pretty things or simply lock females into skirts and tight tops. ladies like loose fitting cloaks as much as some boys like painted nails and veils. If ashes is meant to promote expression and freedom, don’t gender lock every outfit and pidgeonhole the sexes into old fashioned tropes - let us choose

Love the option for female dwarves to have beards and body hair. Would be great to see body hair pattern options for anyone who can toggle it on.

Pretty much agree with most of this, I just want the Nikua to be even more Halfling like!

Lethanel

Nikua looked like ripped toddler

JustVine

As someone who will actually be playing Nikua, I strongly object to shifting them to full halfling. Seriously. The Nikua do not need to fit into your little Tolkien box and it's just so unnecessary. I will seriously just play pyria or renkai if that's what you all end up doing.

The above images are what should be the Nikua's guiding principle. I think that the Nikua need a little more dwarfishness in their silhouette compared to what we saw this stream. They look more pygmy and less polynesian in terms of proportions.

A polynesian body building competition above gives you a pretty good example ofthe range im talking about. Convert that to the short dwarf model you currently have a. Make them slightly taller and a bit thicker over all. If the dunir are trapezoid, I would like to see a Nikua range between the current thin rectangle (the second to last guy on the right in my pic) and a much wider rectangle (guy on far right.) That range was what the concept art led me to believe would be possible range wise, but right now that doesnt feel possible without maxing out all the sliders. Making them more halfling would make that range impossible.

And since you all have yet to post the female model. I highly recommend looking at Priscilla Tuala-Fata's work as she is one of the more famous female samoan body builders and I know how important reference images can be for three d modeling.

https://www.thecoconet.tv/coco-talanoa/humans-of-the-islands/women-of-the-islands-priscilla-tuala-fata/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiD35Gm2df1AhXPkIkEHVX4An0QFnoECAUQAg&usg=AOvVaw057JyOJHPUQ-7LfzI7A0nz

I imagine her body type would easily suit to Nikuan over all in terms of proportions. Honestly I had thought the female Dunir was Nikuan until Margret clarified. I think the current female Dunir looks slightly less trapezoidal than ideal. The thinner shoulders and rectangular shape suit Nikua better. Good luck with the task of differentiating the two female dwarven races.

Over all I am mostly patient here. You all did a fantastic job with Dunir. I have confidence you can get Nikua just right. I hope my above references help.

Edit: here is a less bodybuilder focused image I feel does a good job of showing the range I am talking about as well.
dadc8b061747d96e7c6bdb3cbf258262--samoan-tattoo-tatoo-art.jpg

dadc8b061747d96e7c6bdb3cbf258262--samoan-tattoo-tatoo-art.jpg

234Graph

I think the main and perhaps only complaint is regarding the female dwarf. She lacks a lot of detail on the face especially when compared to the male dwarf and orcs, makes her look quite cartoony and incomplete in my opinion at least. There also appears to be no texture on the hair so it looks somewhat dry and stuck in place.

AidanKD

JustVine wrote: »

As someone who will actually be playing Nikua, I strongly object to shifting them to full halfling. Seriously. The Nikua do not need to fit into your little Tolkien box and it's just so unnecessary. I will seriously just play pyria or renkai if that's what you all end up doing.

I am all aboard these suggestions.

I have read a bit more along these lines today and can see the meaning behind the idea of making the Nikua a more tanned, hearty looking race. Add a bit more weight to the face and body and pretty much what you said.

Nerror

234Graph wrote: »

I think the main and perhaps only complaint is regarding the female dwarf. She lacks a lot of detail on the face especially when compared to the male dwarf and orcs, makes her look quite cartoony and incomplete in my opinion at least. There also appears to be no texture on the hair so it looks somewhat dry and stuck in place.

True, it kind of looked like they focused on getting the body ready first, and we'll see more hair and facial options later on.

Spudz

I agree with OP, in general.

Dwarves Dunir

Look great honestly, really impressed. Well done Intrepid. They captured that traditional Dwarven look, robust statures, and features to suit.

Dwarves Nikua

Body design looks good, but the face doesn't really resonate 'dwarf' with me. Maybe I just need to get used to it. My initial reaction was this is a Gnome, or a small human. That initial reaction left me thinking, this race is ambiguous, in that I don't associate these with Dwarves. My suggestion would be to incorporate my dwarfish, or distinct facial structure or features, where they still look unique from the Dunir, but are clearly distinguishable from humans aside from their stature.

In saying this, I'm open minded and trust where Ashes want to go with this design. I like the concept, but this current execution is just too close to Gnome for me.

Human Kaelar:

Solid, what can I say, humans are humans. I think a good response from the community is 'no news is good news', think they've got this one heading in the right direction.

Ren'kai Orcs

Really cool, think they've done a good job here. With body flat sliders or so, I can see that being really cool. I actually like the upright posture as apposed to hunched/rounded shoulder Orcs.

Vek orcs

Absolutely fantastic, this felt really original and unique for me. The AOC spin on Orcs. This type of design got me excited and interested to play such a character. Well done team. The vibe I'm getting is like, 'Ohh, that's an Ashes Orc/Vek.

Vaelune Armour:

Awesome, really nailed that middle eastern feel and a race from the desert. This got me excited too.

Phasmira

While I'm looking at all these races, I'm also heavily looking at how they could influence Tulnar designs, since I'm running on the assumption that the existing races in the game are going to be the baseline for body sizes and proportions for Tulnar variants.

Dunir
Really solid, polished, and traditional dwarf. Will make a lot of people very happy. I'm not really a dwarf person, but a buddy of mine is obsessed with them and I have a feeling that when I show him these models I'll already have him sold on the game with that alone xD

I saw some people in the twitch chat comment that the legs on the male were a bit to small, and I'll agree with that. Probably an easy tweak. It's not overly distracting.

The armor is exceptional, cant wait to see how it interacts with environment lighting in game with UE5

Nikua
I do agree a with @JustVine with the Nikua appearance, I think its close- but def needs a baseline of being stockier, leaving the option of scaling them to thinner proportions (like the example we saw on stream) with sliders.- but as a baseline for what an AVERAGE Nikua looks like, the concept art seems much more appealing.

My Tulnar main, I'm hoping to make around the size and proportions of a thinner Nikua female, so seeing the body proportions of the male makes me excited that I can get her looking the way I want to with the slider system.

Ren'kai
100%, nothing I can add here. excited about how tall they will be!

Great for a big hulking monstrous Tulnar base too. Wish we could have gotten a look at the female, but if its not ready I know people will riot, no matter how many disclaimers Intrepid gives.

Vek
Couldn't be happier. Love the designs, even the piercings and hair designs shown were super unique and interesting to look at.

So far I'm very impressed with the variation that the character customizer will be capable of when looking at
different styles of Vek that we were presented with. If that is the level of variation we can see from one race by itself, I can't wait to see what will be possible with the Tulnar. Love the more alien look that is achievable!

tautau

Regarding the Vek, sure can't French Kiss them.

Atama

tautau wrote: »

Regarding the Vek, sure can't French Kiss them.

Vek don't kiss on the mouth. There is too much danger of tusklock.

Samson1

Atama wrote: »

tautau wrote: »

Regarding the Vek, sure can't French Kiss them.

Vek don't kiss on the mouth. There is too much danger of tusklock.

JustVine

Unless they got tongues as long as their ears lol

Atama

JustVine wrote: »

Unless they got tongues as long as their ears lol

I got a sneak preview of another Vek model.

CROW3

The Dunir look awesome. I’m a little concerned that Vek look like WoW trolls and Nikua look like gnomes.

If Tulnar end up looking like Pandas, you’ll know where some of the ex-Blizzard folks went.

Samson1

CROW3 wrote: »

The Dunir look awesome. I’m a little concerned that Vek look like WoW trolls and Nikua look like gnomes.

If Tulnar end up looking like Pandas, you’ll know where some of the ex-Blizzard folks went.

RockHound

DougBug27 wrote: »

Some thoughts from my perspective:

......
4. I thought the Vek concept was really cool. As others have said, it reminded me of a mix between the Troll WoW race and the avatar toons. My only concern is that they don't go too far into the "troll" WoW territory. Steven mentioned the natural gate and stance of the Vek and all I could think of was the hunched stance of Trolls in WoW. Again, unique is key...

My thoughts exactly

Atama

CROW3 wrote: »

I’m a little concerned that Vek look like WoW trolls and Nikua look like gnomes.

I don’t think the Nikua look like gnomes. The facial features don’t look much like them at all. Steven said he was trying to make them halfling-like and I see that. Gnomes are more wrinkly and have big noses and ears.

The Vek are totally WoW trolls though. That’s literally the first thought in my head what I saw them. But I felt like they took that concept and made it look bad-ass, less cartoony. And I’m cool with that.

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