Ground resistance ?

Beauchee

Good day all, I wondered if there was going to be any ground resistances ? Example: If you are walking in a marsh will it feel slow and sluggish compare to running in the plains ?

Thanks

Songcaller

The ground also hates being trodden on and makes a ruckus of resistance if you step on its face.

Atama

Neurath wrote: »

The ground also hates being trodden on and makes a ruckus of resistance if you step on its face.

Indeed.

CROW3

That's creepy AF.

Atama

CROW3 wrote: »

That's creepy AF.

That’s from Doctor Who!

The actress who played “Miss Concrete Tile” was the same one who played Moaning Myrtle in the Harry Potter films.

(But yeah, that’s still creepy.)

Sylvanar

Would it really add anything positive to experience though? Yeah I am going through a marsh and instead of going at 100% now I am going at 90% or 50% which would just be annoying.

I believe anything should have both positive and negative aspect to it. What is the upside of this? At the moment there are tons of other core things which need to be fleshed out for the game to reach completion before this level of nitpicking should be given priority.

TheDarkSorcerer

I would rather not have this in-game. I believe it would cause people to avoid certain areas in-game simply because it's "slower" to get around. This sounds nice in RPG's where realism is more used. But not in MMO's, it would just feel clunky.

JustVine

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

I would rather not have this in-game. I believe it would cause people to avoid certain areas in-game simply because it's "slower" to get around. This sounds nice in RPG's where realism is more used. But not in MMO's, it would just feel clunky.

But if there are good resources there, slow speed is a small price to pay for less competition. Especially if I can teleport.

TheDarkSorcerer

JustVine wrote: »

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

I would rather not have this in-game. I believe it would cause people to avoid certain areas in-game simply because it's "slower" to get around. This sounds nice in RPG's where realism is more used. But not in MMO's, it would just feel clunky.

But if there are good resources there, slow speed is a small price to pay for less competition. Especially if I can teleport.

Sounds more like punishment to me. I cannot stand games that cost stam to jump and such, this is sorta the same. Let stuff like that stay in RPG's. MMO's are fast paced.

JustVine

'Some' mmo's are fast paced.

Caww

There were some actual footprints left in the snow for the UE5 reveal so maybe that is some acknowledgment of different ground textures for a future use (like tracking?).

Atama

Maybe rather than mud that slows you down (I agree, that can be annoying), maybe there is ice that you can slide around on. It is harder to control your character when going on ice, but you move faster, and if you get skilled at it maybe you can "skate" to get places faster.

Sylvanar

Atama wrote: »

Maybe rather than mud that slows you down (I agree, that can be annoying), maybe there is ice that you can slide around on. It is harder to control your character when going on ice, but you move faster, and if you get skilled at it maybe you can "skate" to get places faster.

But if some effect is then associated with any type terrain, ice for example, they would have to do something similar to all the different types of terrains.

At the end of the day this is a game and I am averse to this level of realism. The cause being more than mere dislike of the annoyance this will cause. While looking simple at a first glance, if implemented, skills, movement and everything will need to be configured and tested on all the terrains.

Lets take ice. It is slippery. Now when you dodge on ice does your character perform that action at normal speed or should it appear a bit faster? If some level of skill is needed to maneuver, what does the lack of it mean for the player? Just adding "slide" wouldn't be enough. Now imagine doing the same for all the different terrain types. How these effects will interact with ground focused spells or AoE spells?

On flip side, say it is implemented at a very basic level. Just slide or slow. This will feel very clunky and take away a ton from immersion when in these areas cuz different actions/effects would look disjointed with player movement.

Atama

Sylvanar wrote: »

Lets take ice. It is slippery. Now when you dodge on ice does your character perform that action at normal speed or should it appear a bit faster? If some level of skill is needed to maneuver, what does the lack of it mean for the player? Just adding "slide" wouldn't be enough. Now imagine doing the same for all the different terrain types. How these effects will interact with ground focused spells or AoE spells?

In one MMO I play, Star Trek Online, dodging can take you out of a slide. It is often used as a way to manage moving on slippery terrain. But it's not at all realistic. You certainly couldn't do that in real life.

I think you could just make it so you can't dodge while sliding. AoE and ground-focused spells, I don't see how that would be different. The slide might be double-edged; you could potentially get out of an AoE faster and avoid it before it lands, but the lack of control could also get in the way of that.

It might be an interesting mechanic to introduce. It might also be more trouble than its worth.

JustVine

Atama wrote: »

It might be an interesting mechanic to introduce. It might also be more trouble than its worth.

Hmm yeah I agree. Interesting thought.

clone63

I would love this in the game, but I can't see it being worth the time and buginess of testing all the movement based abilities and effects on the different behaving terrain. For what it would truly add... I'd rather see something like climbing or limited levitating or something .. an expansion on mobility/ character dynamics, even if you can't use abilities (ex. swimming combat is always brutal), just to feel like less of an action figure on a board..

Atama

clone63 wrote: »

I'd rather see something like climbing or limited levitating or something .. an expansion on mobility/ character dynamics, even if you can't use abilities (ex. swimming combat is always brutal), just to feel like less of an action figure on a board..

Parkour is already planned.

daveywavey

Atama wrote: »

In one MMO I play, Star Trek Online, dodging can take you out of a slide. It is often used as a way to manage moving on slippery terrain. But it's not at all realistic. You certainly couldn't do that in real life.

Hehe, you used to be able to roll up the Engineer's Cover Shield and stand on top of it to shoot them. And you could use your own Cover Shield to climb up stuff that you'd otherwise not be able to get to. Good times

Beauchee

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

I would rather not have this in-game. I believe it would cause people to avoid certain areas in-game simply because it's "slower" to get around. This sounds nice in RPG's where realism is more used. But not in MMO's, it would just feel clunky.

Maybe if some mounts could counter that type of terrain, would that be ok then ?

Sylvanar

Beauchee wrote: »

Maybe if some mounts could counter that type of terrain, would that be ok then ?

Its not about countering the effects. Infact adding mounts to nullify these effects would make all the hard work quite meaningless.
Lets say this gets implemented. Now what is this bringing to the gameplay experience is my question other than just the modification to the movement speed when in these areas.

Rather a better and less complicated way of implementing something similar would be to add some effects on some mounts. For example:
- Ice terrain, Penguin mount. This mount can slide and move at 200% on ice but only 50% on normal ground.
- Marsh terrain, Crocodile mount. This mount can move at 150% in marshy areas but only 75% on normal ground.
As penguins and crocodiles are actually slow on ground, it doesnt take away from the realism aspect as well.

These would be a luxury mounts as a reward of some in-game event. Or have a rare recessive trait which has 5-10% chance of being dominant. Rare mounts so to speak.

CROW3

This makes me think of the mud pools in BotW. I like the idea of natural, non-MOB dangers in the wilds. Quick sand, swift water, icy ledges, loose stalactites, choking/trip vines, bottomless bogs, noxious swamp gas, etc etc.

It makes exploration feel all the more dangerous, and thus all the more rewarding when you end up someplace entirely new while being, you know, not dead. 🧐

SensetiveTwink

CROW3 wrote: »

This makes me think of the mud pools in BotW. I like the idea of natural, non-MOB dangers in the wilds. Quick sand, swift water, icy ledges, loose stalactites, choking/trip vines, bottomless bogs, noxious swamp gas, etc etc.

It makes exploration feel all the more dangerous, and thus all the more rewarding when you end up someplace entirely new while being, you know, not dead. 🧐

Absolutely agree but:
there may be problems with the passage of content

tautau

This is a good idea. If there was a swampy area that slowed travel, for example, which most people avoided, that is the route I would take for my caravan to lessen the chance of attack.

Sylvanar

Can caravans even off road? I mean if they are going to bother with this level of realism then how do you expect caravans to be able to traverse in a swamp? Ice would be plausible but still unreal unless the caravan is actually a sledge.

bloodprophet

Sylvanar wrote: »

Can caravans even off road? I mean if they are going to bother with this level of realism then how do you expect caravans to be able to traverse in a swamp? Ice would be plausible but still unreal unless the caravan is actually a sledge.

In the video from a while ago they spawned a caravan and went off road with it.
1:06:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkwaYLOuw2s

1:07:41 Stevens superb drive skills gets the caravan momentarily stuck on a rock.

Hopefully it stays this way long term. With everything having collision getting stuck on various things would make the road way more efficient and potentially dangerous from a PvP point. But being off road I would imagine hazards and wild things attacking the caravan could also bring a fair portion of risk.

Will be interesting to see if people plan off road routes in an attempt to avoid the PvP portion and how the counter play is to that.

Also there are various Skins not sure if they will have game play effects or not at this point. Would be neat if stuff like this worked better in the snow or on a beach maybe vs the open road in a more temperate climate.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Urlor's_Expedition#/media/File:Urlor's_Expedition.png
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/The_Crimson_Carriage
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Verdant_Voyager#/media/File:Verdant_Voyager.png

akabear

I thought there already was something somewhat implemented with travel on roads vs general terrain.

All for some variance.

Slow up hill, faster down.
Slower through snow, marsh, water etc.

Sylvanar

tautau wrote: »

If there was a swampy area that slowed travel, for example, which most people avoided, that is the route I would take for my caravan to lessen the chance of attack.

Looking at the video posted by bloodprophet, it looks like the caravan would follow whatever is happening to the person pulling the caravan. So there wouldn't be anything specific associated with the caravan.

Vaknar

What kind of scenarios could you see yourself enjoying and not enjoying with a feature such as this? How do you feel it would affect your gameplay in different situations? Great conversations, everyone

CROW3

It would be cool if one effect of corruption’s corrosiveness on the environment would involve the ground being more difficult to pass. Think of the vegetation that’s so diseased it’s melting in Jordan’s Blight, or the infection of Mirkwood.

Passing through a corrupted environment may require a specific set of items (like swamp boots in Ultima VII), elixirs, or spells - which may make a certain class combo or alchemist critical to access secrets/raids/bosses in such an environment.

Birthday

I find it actually very idea. Add to this idea that certain classes can change the environment temporarily and you get a winning idea because you create a formula where class choice and ability choice matters again alongside terrain choice.
How this plays out in my head in a few PvP examples:

1#Warrior fights a rogue, rogue runs away towards a frozen lake. Rogue due to his agility and leather armor can slide and turn faster than the heavy armored warrior. Rogue takes the advantage but the warrior decides to jump slam his hammer onto the frozen lake triggering the ice to break and it's an underwater battle all of a sudden.

2#Summoner gets ambushed by a rogue hiding in the murky swamp. Due to the terrain being a muddy swamp both the rogue and summoner are having trouble (movement speed debuff and melee attack speed debuff) with moving because no matter how nimble your feet still sink down into the mud. The rogue had the advantage due to the terrain giving him more places to hide. However the summoner could summon creatures which are adapt at this biome and they don't suffer from the movement debuff and attack speed debuff. Suddenly the summoner has the advantage.
This would add more versatility to the summoner class and give more reasons for people to choose certain specs according to what they want to do. For example do you like and prefer sea combat the most? Okay then you could spec as a songcaller (bard+summoner). This I imagine would be advantageous because battles in the sea would be mostly ship vs ship battle and ship invasion/defense battles and port battles. This means your aoe buffs and debuffs will always hit everyone on the battlefield due to the small size of the terrain(ship or port).
Want terrain versatility? Become a conjurerer(summoner+summoner). Now you can always choose to summon the best type of summon for every terrain at any moment.

3# Rangers could get a range attack increased miss chance debuff in dense forests but if you are a Py'rai ranger then you've spent all your life training in forests like that so you don't get the debuff and suddenly there is added meaning to the race and class combo you chose thanks to terrain!

I always found it unsettling and destroying immersion when I'd see that in all MMOs races playing on their home terrain or similar terrains to their home terrain didn't give them any kind of advantage over other races. It would make sense for the vaelune to be greater at battles in the sand. Their warriors would be trained in a different way of handling their weapon, in a different stance because of their home ground(desert) on which they were born and mostly reside, even their bodies would be more adapt at handling the heat and awful footing of desert terrain.
Py'Rai should get some kind of advantage in forests based on the same concept. Etc.

Terrain should matter imo. You shouldn't be able to run full speed up a hill. Yes it might be annoying when exploring but in that case buy yourself a goat type mount and be free of this hindrance. However more depth is added to the game, specially in a PvP-orientated game like this one because now casters and rangers would feel it worth their time to reposition on top of a hill. This would add specially more depth to sieges if terrain matters and high ground matters. High ground could be utilized by melee units as well by staying on the high ground they could get a small attack damage buff when fighting someone below them. This is something that's been missing in MMOs for quite some time. The fact that terrain doesn't matter is what causes this sort of visually disenchanting circling movement in most MMOs' pvp combat https://youtu.be/ARUAiXhbjrw?t=341 <-- circling movement I am talking about at 5:41

If terrain could influence combat and classes and races could benefit from certain kinds of terrain this would add more immersion and depth to the game overall and to the sieges.

Shoelid

For things like this, I find it's always better to make people feel like they're getting a bonus, rather than a penalty. A rather famous anecdote is from the original WoW dev team, who wanted to make sure people who couldn't play all the time could keep up. They originally implemented a system which nerfs your XP gains the more you play. Most people would agree this sounds pretty annoying to deal with. Instead, they went with the 'rested XP system', allowing people who took breaks from the game to gain more XP. Most people like this. Same result, but wildly different perception.

For terrain speeds/ground resistance, I think having large areas that slow you down would be pretty annoying. Instead of 'bad terrain' there should be 'optimal paths'. Maybe the main paths will speed you up a bit, or there are bridges in key locations that keep you from having to swim across.

I like @Birthday 's suggestions with the different races. Giving the different races thematic buffs in certain biomes would be cool, especially when the nodes themselves will model after the race that built them.