What hair color limitations would you like to see in Ashes of Creation? (Poll and Discussion)

https://strawpoll.com/polls/05Zd1MG6Ey6

If you guys want some other variant than what I have on the poll post it and lets talk about it, i would love to hear everyone's thoughts! I personally would love no limitations but I know some people don't like to see people running around with bright neon hair so I would settle for a cyan or red streak or highlight lol. If we are going by what's possible in world, there are so many magical mushrooms and plants and actual magic that could make hair dye feasible. What do you all think?

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Songcaller

I can neither vote nor give opinions on hairstyles. We are in the same situation as Zabrak. My options will be limited or non existent due to horns on my character. I don't really have opinions on other people's desires but I obviously do see people in game and go 'Cool character' or whatever.

bloodprophet

Like to see a good variety of colors. Maybe a limited RGB matrix for each race.
Long as I can get a good dark red I'll be happy.

Diura

No limitations buuuut I do ask for a good range of natural colours. I dunno why some games it's so hard to have light brunette 👀 or blonde that looks real and not like you've bleached your hair at home.

Amist

Diura wrote: »

No limitations buuuut I do ask for a good range of natural colours. I dunno why some games it's so hard to have light brunette 👀 or blonde that looks real and not like you've bleached your hair at home.

Ugh, it's always SO hard to find a good light brown or natural blonde :'(

AidanKD

I agree with the others saying a nicer blend of natural colours!

Personally my acceptance of the more luminous bright colours depends on the overall colour palette used in the game and if it will fit into the world. If it can work in the world - then I am all for it.

Lithion

AidanKD wrote: »

I agree with the others saying a nicer blend of natural colours!

Personally my acceptance of the more luminous bright colours depends on the overall colour palette used in the game and if it will fit into the world. If it can work in the world - then I am all for it.

I agree! I feel like no restrictions on colors could go either way depending on how good they implement them. We could have bright neon green hair that stands out like a sore thumb and is just obnoxious or we could have a more realistic looking lime green that isn't just glowing like a highlighter and its more of a soft muted version. From the character creator we have seen so far, I trust in Intrepid to do all colors the right way if they decide to go that route.

JustVine

AidanKD wrote: »

I agree with the others saying a nicer blend of natural colours!

Personally my acceptance of the more luminous bright colours depends on the overall colour palette used in the game and if it will fit into the world. If it can work in the world - then I am all for it.

I agree. What I think really needs to happen is that the natural colour options need to be really easy and accessible for people to just point and click on and for the tones and shades to be very easy to adjust the gradient of. BUT! It's high fantasy, so I'd love to see some really tasteful colour pallets of nonnatural colours as well like purples, greens, pinks, blues, and brighter reds. There is definitely ways to make those look tasteful and natural without being stupidly neon and loud. I highly recommend looking at DOA5 as an example. The hair colour options they have for all characters are really natural looking pallets. Only a few of them look off depending on the characters personal colour pallet.

I think loud obnoxious colours should still be an option of course. I don't want ANY limits if we can get them. But good ui for getting people the natural looking options should not be sacrificed for that if we can help it. It's what makes BDO's hair styles made by people new to the engine look really 'off'.

Leiloni

Lithion wrote: »

https://strawpoll.com/polls/05Zd1MG6Ey6

If you guys want some other variant than what I have on the poll post it and lets talk about it, i would love to hear everyone's thoughts! I personally would love no limitations but I know some people don't like to see people running around with bright neon hair so I would settle for a cyan or red streak or highlight lol. If we are going by what's possible in world, there are so many magical mushrooms and plants and actual magic that could make hair dye feasible. What do you all think?

I need to be able to recreate the light bubblegum pink I go with in half the games I play. Sometimes I'm in the mood for a more normal look - really depends on the race and the game. But I'd love the option, and a great in game barbershop for when I inevitably need a change.

I need more of this.

Noaani

Since dye is a thing that we know will exist in Ashes, I am all for having only natural colors at character creation, and then letting people apply dye to their hair which lasts perhaps either until the end of the season, or until the end of the in game year (with perhaps a popup telling players how long it will last) - edit, both these timeframes are purely so that you know the character will be offline when the dye runs out, preventing hair suddenly changing color back to it's original.

Obviously, any hairstyle should have multiple dyable channels, just as any clothing or armor should.

Lithion

Noaani wrote: »

Since dye is a thing that we know will exist in Ashes, I am all for having only natural colors at character creation, and then letting people apply dye to their hair which lasts perhaps either until the end of the season, or until the end of the in game year (with perhaps a popup telling players how long it will last) - edit, both these timeframes are purely so that you know the character will be offline when the dye runs out, preventing hair suddenly changing color back to it's original.

Obviously, any hairstyle should have multiple dyable channels, just as any clothing or armor should.

I actually really like this idea, and if dyes are made by artisans then it keeps a constant dye market booming besides just armor dyes.

JustVine

I'm not really sure I understand the intention behind the proposed limitation to the dye system.

Yes it gives yet another resource sink and it's mildly realistic. On the other hand glamor and high fantasy are pretty connected concepts; so the ability to change style frequently doesn't really 'need' a better explanation to keep immersion.

It's not really preventing people from 'changing so often that you are able to mask your characters appearance' either. It's just putting a resource drag on it. Those who have reason to change frequently will always have a personal incentive to keep materials for their 'disguises'. I guess the need for materials for disguises is kind of cool on paper? But it's a very small addition to game play over all. I'm not sure how well it'd play out in practice from that specific angle.

So you are mostly just 'charging' people who like frequently changing their appearance... To drain their resources more? That sort of feels like a penalty to me and not at all the kind that leads to a 'rewarding feeling' down the line like a new costume from a dungeon I have to earn or traveling to a really skilled barbed and getting it professionally done by someone really good at getting the best results out of the character creator (if they implemented a sharing feature that required you to visit the persons freehold.)

It could boost demand for dyes in the market over all, but new cash shop costumes and new gear from newly added dungeons should already technically do that right?

I'm just not seeing the benefits or intended appeal. I kind of like the realism, but I think I'd need more reasoning to really be sold on the idea. Right now it just seems like a inconvenience.

If such a system were implemented, however, I think I would argue for being able to 'set' your 'natural' hair to 'the full pallet and gradients in its entirety' at character creation. That way you aren't stifling creative expression and keeping things high fantasy, while still implementing the limitation (which again I'm not really sold on.)

Noaani

JustVine wrote: »

I'm not really sure I understand the intention behind the proposed limitation to the dye system.

Yes it gives yet another resource sink and it's mildly realistic. On the other hand glamor and high fantasy are pretty connected concepts; so the ability to change style frequently doesn't really 'need' a better explanation to keep immersion.

Civilization has spent the last several thousand years in Sanctus. There is no magic in Sanctus.

To them, Verra is as much of a legend as Atlantis is to us. To them, magic is as much of a fantasy as it is to us.

If you are in a situation where you suddenly found yourself in Atlantis, and where magic was suddenly a thing - yet your very life was in constant danger - how much time and effort would you put in to working out how to use magic to change the color of your hair when there are dyes available to perform that function?

As to the rest of your concerns;

Some people do not like having non-natural hair colors in their MMO. I personally disagree with such people, but fully understand their point of view as it is not entirely dissimilar to my perspective on cosmetics (although the hair perspective does lack any sort of actual in game effect).

Players in Ashes are free to wear any look they desire, if they pay for it. We have no option but to accept that. This suggestion for hair is basically the same as that. If a player has a non-natural hair color, they paid to have that - the only difference is that they paid for it with gold rather than actual money (reflecting the lack of any in game benefit to changing your hair color).

Essentially, this is a compromise between those that want freedom to have whatever hair color they wish to have, and those that only want to see natural colors in "their" MMO.

As a bonus, by making it dye rather than anything else that players use to change their hair color, it adds to the games economy. While it is easy to say "but cosmetics will see people buying enough dye", in my experience, most players buying cosmetics (especially costumes) don't bother dying them at all.

Even if they did, in terms of adding to a games economy, more is always better - especially if that more can be added without bloat (such as adding new items with new recipes to dye hair - I would be against that, personally).

As an aside, it also encourages people to change their hair color more frequently. If your hair dye only lasts either a week or four week (which were the two suggestions I made), then you are more likely to think about it more, to think about what color (or color combination) you may want to try next time. If dye were just a permanent thing, many people would just dye their hair and leave it as it is for months (or years), without giving it any more thought.

JustVine

Oh so it really is just a 'tax' on such people, it's just that the 'people' in question is EVERYONE who wants nonstandard colors, not just people who want to change their hair style frequently. Got it. That clarifies it at least. Just thought I was missing something, since there definitely could be some potential with the concept of 'fading dyes'.

Obviously such a 'compromise' is on 'lol no' levels to me. A compromise of at least 'letting your base hair color have no limits on creation' would definitely be reasonable from a player freedom level. But that technically would fully dismantle your intent with the 'tax' as it'd effect much less people and allow for 'non-natural' colors to be 'natural'. Interesting idea nonetheless.

3Snap

I hope there's a lot of different colours. There better be a purple *shakes fist*

Noaani

JustVine wrote: »

Oh so it really is just a 'tax' on such people.

No, it's an expense.

Just as potions are an expense for anyone wanting to take on top tier content.
Just as repairing gear is an expense for being killed.
Just as dye is an expense for people wanting to create the exact look they are after.
Just as renting a player stall is an expense for people wanting to sell their goods.
Just as building up a node is an expense for people wanting to live in a to tier node.
Just as getting ready for a siege is an expense for people wanting to, well, siege a node.

If you are going to complain about there being an ongoing expense for any one activity (in this case, non-standard hair color), would it not make sense for you to be against any ongoing costs for anything? Why are some ongoing costs that only some people have ok and others aren't? I mean, the average player that isn't using potions in combat probably doesn't need to spend as much on potions as the top end player that uses them often.

Is that any more fair?

Both are paying an expense to meet a desire they have.

-T0Mb-

I wrote my opinion about hair colors into the recent hairstyle feedback thread and I will post it here too.

I hope that humans', dwarves' and Empyrean elves' hair color options will include only natural hair colors (not like bright pink, blue, green etc.) and let the more magical or beast looking races (Py'Rai, Ren'Kai, Vek and maybe Tulnar) have an option to use a little bit unnatural hair colors.

Songcaller

Hair dye isn't free in real life. I however drift in and out lol.

JustVine

I call it a tax because it's literally you paying a portion of your play time to sustain something completely incidental to game play. But when the alternative is 'no such limitations' it's at the very least a 'penalty fee', if you don't want to call it a 'tax', to players who don't play video games to play with 'standard irl natural colors'. It's impeding on a play style that has nothing to do with the game itself.

It is more 'fair' to players who don't like 'nonstandard' hair colors, I will grant. But it's imposing a 'cost' on the people who do like 'nonstandard' hair colors for the sake of fairness in a way that won't ultimately effect the experience for people who dislike 'nonstandard' hair colors. The hair colors in question will still be prevalent in the game. The same can't be said for 'unlimited potions' for example. Running out of potions directly effects the outcome of a battle. Having a cost to those potions directly effects how many your willing to have on your persons at any given time. The design goals are achieved in the case of cost for potions. Here it's mostly achieving 'fairness'.

A lot of the other activities you wish to equivocate to this are also limitations that meaningfully effect game play. 'Non-standard' hair colors doesn't effect game play or combat in the way limitations on housing, gear, market stalls, etc do, other than the player's personal satisfaction at looking the way they want. Without your proposal it's just 'options in the beauty parlor'. Without the limitations on the things you listed, the game itself is changed.

I guess the closest equivalent thing you could argue is furniture. But even that feels like a stretch given how detailed the game play loop carpentry and furniture making should be in a game like this. If you removed the limitation on furniture it would limit options for the economy and systems design directly. You could argue dyes not being craftable would do the same thing, except dyes have a pre-existing demand in game already for costumes and armor. So even then the situations are weakly equivalent at best.

Hope your having fun.

Noaani

JustVine wrote: »

But it's imposing a 'cost' on the people who do like 'nonstandard' hair colors for the sake of fairness in a way that won't ultimately effect the experience for people who dislike 'nonstandard' hair colors.

Most players that I know well that have this mindset are more than fine with any hair color if the player in question has paid something for it. It's people creating a character with what they consider a purposefully obnoxious hair color that they take issue with.

This is the actual basis for the suggestion.

JustVine

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